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Why there is no global warming war and never has been; history
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Topic Started: Dec 15 2013, 02:25 AM (1,357 Views)
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Pat
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Dec 15 2013, 04:52 AM
Post #11
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Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
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- telcoman
- Dec 15 2013, 03:52 AM
You are correct, I am quite pessimistic in fact. I agree with all you say, but the human race usually does not act until it is forced to. Yep, procrastination is a factor in the natural selection process.
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Brewster
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Dec 16 2013, 12:25 AM
Post #12
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Pat, there are many things that could be done - yes, things will get worse before they get better, but we CAN make them better.
We have the technology to do it all. The ironic part is, we are rapidly reaching the point where the solutions to the problem are actually cheaper and better for the world's economy than sticking with Business as Usual. And the Chinese are beating us to the goal.
The only two things stopping us are politics and defeatism.
Edited by Brewster, Dec 16 2013, 12:26 AM.
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Brewster
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Dec 16 2013, 12:37 AM
Post #13
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Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
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- Climate Progress
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Big Oil and the White House Agree: Carbon Pollution Will Cost Money
It turns out the White House and major American businesses may be converging on how to assess the damage greenhouse gas emissions do to the global climate.
According to a new report by the environmental data company CDP, in 2013 at least 29 companies either based or operating in the United States factored a price on carbon into their long-term business planning. And in 2010, the Obama Administration released the government’s estimates for that same price, to be used as a factor in rulemaking decisions by federal agencies. The global warming driven by human-caused carbon emissions will come various results, including droughts, floods, heat waves, shifting weather patterns, stronger storms, disrupted food supplies and rising seas. The purpose of the price in both instances is to quantify the economic costs of those effects.
Significantly, the companies using an internal carbon price include the five oil giants — ExxonMobil, ConocoPhillips, Chevron, BP, and Shell — along with other notables like Google, Microsoft, General Electric, Walt Disney, Wells Fargo, DuPont, and Delta Air Lines.
The specific prices they estimated were also striking: $40 per ton of carbon emissions for BP; $60 for ExxonMobil, and $40 for Shell. Xcel Energy pegged it at $20, Walt Disney at $10 to $20, and ConocoPhillips’ estimate ran anywhere from $8 to $46 depending on various factors. The U.S. government’s midline estimates were $37 and $57 for 2015. CDP also reviewed the carbon prices already in place in other countries around the world, which generally fell into the same range — and in a few instances much lower and higher.
Currently, the United States does not put any price on carbon. The International Monetary Fund estimates that failure effectively subsidizes fossil fuels to the tune of $502 billion annually — the biggest of any country in the world. The result is a massive market distortion, because the costs of climate change are not being factored into the daily decisions and transactions of everyone in the economy. The most direct way to place a price on carbon is either a carbon tax or a cap-and-trade system like the one Congress considered in 2009 and then abandoned. But the regulations to cut carbon emissions from power plants would implicitly, if not directly, place a price on those emissions as well.
Of course, the businesses’ use of an internal carbon price is an act of self-interest rather than advocacy. CMS Energy Corporation, for instance, noted it factored into its decision to start up a natural gas power plant, and to begin shuttering several coal-fired ones. And the CDP report quotes many of the companies emphasizing the price’s use as a guide in investment and other decisions.
“It’s climate change as a line item,” Tom Carnac, North American president of CDP, told the New York Times. “They’re looking at it from a rational perspective, making a profit. It drives internal decision-making.”
Publicly, some of these companies — ExxonMobil in particular — have been long-time skeptics of climate change, and have financially supported efforts to beat back the policies aimed at addressing it. Many of those companies are also regular contributors to the Republican party, which opposes efforts to cut greenhouse gas emissions and has sought to derail the White House’s carbon price. Consequently, many observers on both sides of the issue see the companies’ internal use of a carbon price as a significant break between business’ practical self-interest and the ideological position of the GOP and its conservative supporters — a sign the concrete financial infrastructure that supports opposition to climate policy is simply tiring out.
Across the financial world, there’s growing concern that massive amounts of money are invested in fossil fuel reserves that can never be exploited. Bloomberg LP recently released a financial tool to help investors calculate their carbon risk, while movements across the United States and other countries are pushing institutions to disentangle themselves from fossil fuel production. Various carbon-pricing mechanisms are already operating in numerous countries, and the growth of renewable energy continues to rocket upwards. In other words, the need to account for carbon emissions’ climate damage is no longer seen as a mere internal question of government policy — it’s taking on a collective life of its own.
Being hard-nosed business leaders, Exxon Mobil, BP, Google, and all the rest of them are simply acknowledging that reality. LINK - with Many Links to Facts
How much are YOU willing to pay for the privilege of adding more crap to your air?
Edited by Brewster, Dec 16 2013, 12:41 AM.
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Neutral
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Dec 16 2013, 12:45 AM
Post #14
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Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
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Same crap, different day.
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Pat
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Dec 16 2013, 01:04 AM
Post #15
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Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
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Have you ever been to China Brew, I'm not talking about the great wall, I'm talking about industrialized China and it's large population centers. If so, then tell me why you believe that country is leading the world on anything along this line other than in pollution.
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Deleted User
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Dec 16 2013, 01:17 AM
Post #16
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Deleted User
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- Neutral
- Dec 16 2013, 12:45 AM
 Same crap, different day. Same idiot on the sidelines, different day. If you don't have anything intelligent to say I would suggest goign back to your own dead in the water forum.
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Neutral
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Dec 16 2013, 01:19 AM
Post #17
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Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
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You mean you want me to contribute like you did in the above post and call you a name? Okay Telcoturd.
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Pat
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Dec 16 2013, 01:22 AM
Post #18
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Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
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Ratchet that crap down guys.
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Brewster
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Dec 16 2013, 03:35 AM
Post #19
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Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
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- Pat
- Dec 16 2013, 01:04 AM
Have you ever been to China Brew, I'm not talking about the great wall, I'm talking about industrialized China and it's large population centers. If so, then tell me why you believe that country is leading the world on anything along this line other than in pollution. Pat, Is there some sort of unwritten law that insists the US Right must ignore the big picture?
I'm more than aware of China's pollution problems. But it isn't where they ARE, but where they're GOING that matters. And they're pumping out Renewables at a pace that should be scaring the sh*t out of the rest of the world. Their problem is that their economy is accelerating even faster, meaning that so far their pollution problems are still growing.
But there is no doubt that their Renewable production will fulfill all their needs by 2025 at the latest..
In the meantime, the US and Canada are growing the dirtiest and/or most dangerous forms of energy production ever discovered. The only thing saving us is that the high cost of coal has cut the use of that poison for now - But every expert I've read says that what we're doing with fracking is burning the candle at both ends - fracked wells only work for a year or so, then they're done.
What happens when natural gas runs out? We'll be back on coal, and needing more than we ever did before. Nobody in North America can see past the end of their noses.
- Wikipedia
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Renewable energy is helping the People's Republic of China complete its economic transformation and achieve energy security. China has progressed rapidly along the path of renewable energy development.
About 17 percent of China's electricity came from renewable sources in 2007, led by the world's largest number of hydroelectric generators. China had a total installed capacity of hydropower of 197 GWatt in 2009. Technology development and increased amounts of investment in renewable energy technologies and installations increased markedly throughout the 2000s in China, and investment in renewable energy is now part of China's economic stimulus strategy. Researchers from Harvard University and Tsinghua University have found that the People's Republic could meet all of its electricity demands from wind power by 2030.
Hydropower
China's installed hydropower capacity surpassed 200 GW in late August 2010. It is expected that the installation of hydropower could reach 210 GW by the end of 2010.
On April 6, 2007, the Gansu Dang River Hydropower Project was registered as a Clean Development Mechanism (CDM) project in accordance with the requirements of the Kyoto Protocol to the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change. The project consists of the construction and operation of eight run-of-river hydropower plants providing total capacity of 35.4 GW, which will generate an average of 224 GWh/year. The power generated by the project, which is located in Dang Town, Subei Mongolian Autonomous County, Gansu Province, China, and which was certified by the National Development and Reform Commission (NDRC) to be in compliance with the "Measures for the Operation and Management of Clean Development Mechanism Projects in China", will be sold to the Gansu power grid which is part of the China Northwest Regional Power Grid (NWPG), thereby displacing equivalent amounts of electricity generated by the current mix of power sold to the NWPG. The developer of the Gansu Dang River Hydropower Project, which started construction on November 1, 2004, is the Jiayuguan City Tongyuan Hydropower Co., Ltd. The Letter of Approval of the NDRC permits the Jiayuguan City Tongyuan Hydropower Co., Ltd. to transfer to Japan Carbon Finance, Ltd., an entity approved by the government of Japan no more than 1.2 megatons of carbon dioxide emissions in total Certified Emission Reductions (CERs) over the seven-year period beginning on May 1, 2007, and ending on April 30, 2014.
In 2006 there was 10 GW of installed hydropower capacity that went into operation in China. The National Development and Reform Commission also approved thirteen additional hydropower projects in 2006, which cumulatively will have 19.5 GW of power generating capacity. New hydropower projects that were approved and began construction in 2006 include the Jinsha River Xiangjiaba Dam (6000 MW), the Yalong River Mianpi (Second Phase) (4800 MW), the Lancang River Jinghong Dam (1750 MW), the Beipan River Guangzhao (1040 MW) and the Wu River Silin Dam (1080 MW). In 2005 the following hydroelectric power projects were approved by the NDRC and began construction: the Jinsha River Xiluo Crossing (12600 MW); the Yellow River Laxiwa Dam (4200 MW) and the Yalong River Mianpi (First Phase) (3600 MW).
Wind power
China has the largest wind resources in the world and three-quarters of wind farms are offshore. In 2008 China was the fourth largest producer of wind power after the United States, Germany, and Spain. At the end of 2008, wind power in China accounted for 12.2 GW of electricity generating capacity, while in 2009 China had total installed windpower capacity up to 26 GW. China has identified wind power as a key growth component of the country's economy. As of 2010, China has become the world's largest maker of wind turbines, surpassing Denmark, Germany, Spain, and the United States.
The initial future target set by the Chinese government was 10 GW by 2010, but the total installed capacity for wind power generation in China had already reached 25.1 GW by the end of 2009.China aims to have 100 GW of wind power capacity by 2020. China encourages foreign companies, especially from the USA to visit and invest in Wind Power Generation.
Solar power
China produces 30% of the world's solar photovoltaics (PV). It has emerged as the world's largest manufacturer of solar panels in the last two years.
China has become a world leader in the manufacture of solar photovoltaic technology, with its six biggest solar companies having a combined value of over $15 billion. Around 820 MW of solar PV were produced in China in 2007, second only to Japan.
Following the new incentive scheme of Golden Sun announced by the government in 2009, there are numerous recent developments and plans announced by industry players that became part of the milestones for solar industry and technology development in China, such as the new thin film solar plant developed by Anwell Technologies in the Henan province using its own proprietary solar technology. The agreement was signed by LDK for a 500 MW solar project in the desert, alongside First Solar and Ordos City.
About 50 MW of installed solar capacity was added in 2008, more than double the 20 MW capacity of 2007. According to some studies, the demand in China for new solar modules could be as high as 232 MW each year from now on until 2012. The government has announced plans to expand the installed capacity to 20 GW by 2020. If Chinese companies manage to develop low cost, reliable solar modules, then the sky is the limit for a country that is desperate to reduce its dependence on coal and oil imports as well as the pressure on its environment by using renewable energy.
Biomass and Biofuel
China emerged as the world's third largest producer of ethanol-based bio-fuels (after the U.S and Brazil) at the end of the 10th Five Year Plan Period in 2005 and at present ethanol accounts for 20% of total automotive fuel consumption in China.
Work has begun on the ¥250 million Kaiyou Green Energy Biomass (Rice Husks) Power Generating project located in the Suqian City Economic Development Zone in Jiangsu Province. The Kaiyou Green Energy Biomass Power project will generate 144 GWh/year and use 200 kilotons/year of crop waste as inputs.
Bioenergy is also used at the domestic level in China, both in biomass stoves and by producing biogas from animal manure.
Geothermal
Geothermal resources in China are abundant and widely distributed throughout the country. There are over 2,700 hot springs occurring at the surface, with temperatures exceeding 250°C. In 1990, the total flow rate of thermal water for direct uses amounted to over 9,500 kg/s, making China the second direct user of geothermal energy in the world. LINK
Oh well, I'm sure the US and Canada won't mind being third world countries. Our kids will do well flipping Burgers.
In the meantime, some on this board get upset when I say both our countries are on their way to being Bankrupt Sewers.
Edited by Brewster, Dec 16 2013, 03:39 AM.
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Neutral
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Dec 16 2013, 04:03 AM
Post #20
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Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
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Maybe Brew could find a Chinese forum and praise them?
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