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| One way Canada keeps healthcare costs down; questionable quality of doctor training | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Dec 10 2013, 02:43 AM (1,099 Views) | |
| Pat | Dec 10 2013, 02:43 AM Post #1 |
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Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
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Explain to me how Canada can keep medical school tuition so low? Explain to me how a school in a third world country can have the equipment and means to properly train and educate a student in a 21st century high tech field? Explain to me why it is wise to accept into residency programs students who couldn't even gain acceptance in medical school back home? Pop always said "you get what you pay for" And he said "there are no free lunches" I don't have any answers to my questions, maybe the Canadians here do. What I do know is that in Germany I had a top notch experience and here in Australia it appears to be top flight. Over the past five years, the number of Canadians studying medicine abroad has more than doubled. Almost all of these medical students want to practice in Canada. Is it good for Canada to rely on foreign medical schools to train our future doctors? David Li, a family doctor in Oshawa, is one of Ross University’s success stories. Li graduated from Ross, a medical school in the Caribbean West Indies, in 2006. “I went to Ross because I couldn’t get into medical school in Canada,” said Li. “I applied in November 2002 and started the program in January 2003. When I graduated in 2006 I was one of the few lucky ones to match for a residency position back in Canada.” Li’s story is prominently featured in advertisements promising that after training at Ross, Canadians can “come home to practice.” Li is just one of a growing number of Canadians going to medical school abroad, in places like Bahrain, Australia and the Caribbean. Who are these Canadians who study medicine overseas? What drives them? What are the costs and who pays? And most importantly, is it good for Canada to rely on medical schools in other countries to train our doctors? The facts behind the numbers A recent survey found that there are 10,500 medical students in Canada and about 3600 Canadians studying medicine abroad – enough to fill about 6 Canadian medical schools. The same survey found that more than 75% of Canadians studying medicine abroad say that they did so because they were not able to obtain a spot in a Canadian medical school. Competition here in Canada is fierce. Although there has been an expansion in medical school spots across Canada in recent years, about 25% of applicants are accepted. In the United States, 43% of applicants get into medical school. Medical School Region Average Yearly Tuition ($CAD) Ireland 49,800 Caribbean 25,608 Australia 42,334 Canada 12,214 Source: CaRMs 2010 report Canadian Students Studying Medicine Abroad Canadians who study medicine abroad are not assured of a residency training spot in Canada – required for a license to practice medicine in Canada. Rikin Patel, who went to medical school at St. George’s University in Grenada, reflects on the “long road” that he took prior to obtaining his current pediatrics residency position at Memorial University in Newfoundland. Patel went through multiple cycles of medical school applications in Canada before deciding to study medicine abroad. He then competed against hundreds of doctors for his residency position and considers himself lucky to have obtained a spot. Many of his colleagues from St. George’s were unable to secure coveted residency positions in Canada, and completed their training in the United States. There are many steps and years in the journey to becoming a doctor, shown in the graphic below. Joshua Tepper, who until recently was Assistant Deputy Minister for Health Human Resources Strategy in Ontario, notes that the formal selection process assesses all individuals from foreign medical schools equally regardless of what country they lived in before attending those schools. Patel, however, suggests that Canadians who are competing for spots have a significant cultural advantage, being more familiar with the norms of Canadian medical practice and health care system. Tepper does not disagree. Is training Canadians abroad good public policy? Getting the number of doctors right is a major issue in Canadian health care, with data showing that many Canadians experience long waits for specialist care and have difficulty finding a family doctor. In response to these problems, provincial governments have not only increased the number of medical school spots in the last decade, they have also made it easier for internationally-trained physicians to practice in Canada by opening up additional residency training positions. In the short-term, this move alleviates physician shortages here at home. But some feel that it is unfair to Canadian students. For example, Peter Walker, the former Dean of the University of Ottawa Faculty of Medicine notes that the high cost of medical schools abroad, combined with the low acceptance ratio in Canada, make it difficult for many able and qualified Canadians to pursue a medical education. Walker believes that a better solution would be more medical schools in Canada, and has been advising York University on how to go about starting a new medical school in Toronto. Is it shortsighted for Canadian governments to rely on internationally-trained physicians? Will physicians trained in Ireland or Grenada know what they need to practice here in Canada? “If you are trying to change and improve the [Canadian] health care system, why are people being educated in another environment?” asks Walker. And is it fair for some Canadians to pursue a backdoor route to a career here in Canada while qualified Canadians give up on their dreams of becoming a doctor? |
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| colo_crawdad | Dec 10 2013, 02:53 AM Post #2 |
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Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
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Link? |
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| Brewster | Dec 10 2013, 02:59 AM Post #3 |
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Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
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Yup, one more failure of the Martin and Harper governments. But it is now a political issue, not the financial issue it was a couple of decades ago. Many medical schools were closed as cost-cutting measures under Martin in the 1990's, causing many years where wait times became excessively long in many parts of Canada. The overseas training was brought in to reverse the trend without restarting the Medical schools, which would have been a real black eye for Martin, and against Harper's policy of cutting all scientific training and research. It's gradually turning around, primarily by investments at the Provincial level I believe. BTW, the overseas training is very good, and I've heard that in fact there have been benefits, as these "outsiders" bring new techniques to Canada. And the countries the new Doctors are training in are hardly "Third World". But regardless of the level of training overseas, the "outsiders" still have to go through several years of Canadian residency, so the quality of care would seem to be in no danger. On Edit: My Eye Doctor was trained in east Texas, admittedly a Third World country, but he seems competent in spite of that. Edited by Brewster, Dec 10 2013, 05:59 AM.
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| Pat | Dec 10 2013, 03:31 AM Post #4 |
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Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
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Australia seems to be ahead of Canada and other former British colonies as far as quality of medical care. And the more I investigate this country, the more advanced it seems to be in every area I exam. Not just over Canada's or the others, but back home too. The people and systems just seem to make sense, are logical and reasonable. I don't know how this all evolved but I wonder if Australians realize how far advanced it is here compared to Europe and North America? |
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| Mountainrivers | Dec 10 2013, 03:35 AM Post #5 |
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Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
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In what ways? |
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| Brewster | Dec 10 2013, 03:37 AM Post #6 |
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Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
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I suspect that's a blend of truth and Australian wishful thinking, Pat. Any country that puts a huge chunk of its media in the hands of Rupert Murdoch has a whole bunch of problems they'll never even be aware of. Edited by Brewster, Dec 10 2013, 03:38 AM.
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| Mountainrivers | Dec 10 2013, 03:51 AM Post #7 |
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Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
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Googling "Australia problems" shows that they have many of the same problems we do. Immigration(they call it asylum seekers), the economy, global warming. |
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| Banandangees | Dec 10 2013, 05:49 AM Post #8 |
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Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
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Pat, I see you're getting the usual liberal rationalization diversion. Link.... if isn't from places like media maters or the NY Times it's the Murdoch diversion. Harper/Martin... if it's good news from Canada, it's Oh Canada. If it's negative news from Canada, it's Harper/Martin. Or, just plain diversion from the original topic thread. |
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| Neutral | Dec 10 2013, 06:03 AM Post #9 |
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Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
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It's always someone else's fault with the libs. |
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| Mountainrivers | Dec 10 2013, 06:27 AM Post #10 |
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Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
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I see you're getting it all wrong, again. Pat brought up Australia, not me or Brew. |
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