Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
Nelson Mandela; Dead at 95
Topic Started: Dec 6 2013, 09:54 AM (1,875 Views)
Mountainrivers
Member Avatar
Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
[ * ]
Pat
Dec 9 2013, 01:42 AM
colo_crawdad
Dec 8 2013, 11:02 PM
I wonder if any of the right on this board have stopped to ponder why Mandela allied himself with the left, then known as communism." I wonder if they have pondered why on the radical left and not the right had goals aligned with Mandela's desire for freedom and equal treatment for native blacks. My own answer to those questions is: no, I doubt if the US right, as represented by several on this board, had any thoughts concerning why the left aligned with goals of self government, freedom and equal treatment. The US Right with their icon, Ronald Reagan, favored denying those right to native Africans.
Nope I didn't and had no reason to. My interest is focused on what the man's philosophy in life was, a philosophy that resulted in death and destruction for many. I won't argue that he didn't have cause, just that I find it odd that for a country that has sacrificed oceans of blood in defending against terrorism and communism, that we would celebrate the life of one of it's followers and leaders. I have similar feelings about Gandhi, a guy who set into place a catastrophic set of ideals and policies that kept India enmeshed in poverty for decades.
One finds allies wherever he can find them. He didn't rule via what you claim was his ideology.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Pat
Member Avatar
Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
[ * ]
Mountainrivers
Dec 9 2013, 01:45 AM
Pat
Dec 9 2013, 01:42 AM
colo_crawdad
Dec 8 2013, 11:02 PM
I wonder if any of the right on this board have stopped to ponder why Mandela allied himself with the left, then known as communism." I wonder if they have pondered why on the radical left and not the right had goals aligned with Mandela's desire for freedom and equal treatment for native blacks. My own answer to those questions is: no, I doubt if the US right, as represented by several on this board, had any thoughts concerning why the left aligned with goals of self government, freedom and equal treatment. The US Right with their icon, Ronald Reagan, favored denying those right to native Africans.
Nope I didn't and had no reason to. My interest is focused on what the man's philosophy in life was, a philosophy that resulted in death and destruction for many. I won't argue that he didn't have cause, just that I find it odd that for a country that has sacrificed oceans of blood in defending against terrorism and communism, that we would celebrate the life of one of it's followers and leaders. I have similar feelings about Gandhi, a guy who set into place a catastrophic set of ideals and policies that kept India enmeshed in poverty for decades.
One finds allies wherever he can find them. He didn't rule via what you claim was his ideology.
I agree, but in his case he was never our ally. I think a case that matches your post would be our marriage to the Soviets during WWII. And we didn't celebrate the death of Stalin or heap praises on the man. I think South Africa is where Nelson's efforts should be celebrated and rightfully so.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Neutral
Member Avatar
Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
[ * ]
It says here there is Stage 6 genocide in SA.
http://www.realnews24.com/genocide-watch-upgrades-south-africa-stage-6-preparation/

Pics of white women raped and tortured in SA
https://www.google.com/search?q=south+africa+rape+of+white+women&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=8XCjUq08x9qRB6j1gOgP&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=849&bih=465
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mountainrivers
Member Avatar
Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
[ * ]
Pat
Dec 9 2013, 02:00 AM
Mountainrivers
Dec 9 2013, 01:45 AM
Pat
Dec 9 2013, 01:42 AM
colo_crawdad
Dec 8 2013, 11:02 PM
I wonder if any of the right on this board have stopped to ponder why Mandela allied himself with the left, then known as communism." I wonder if they have pondered why on the radical left and not the right had goals aligned with Mandela's desire for freedom and equal treatment for native blacks. My own answer to those questions is: no, I doubt if the US right, as represented by several on this board, had any thoughts concerning why the left aligned with goals of self government, freedom and equal treatment. The US Right with their icon, Ronald Reagan, favored denying those right to native Africans.
Nope I didn't and had no reason to. My interest is focused on what the man's philosophy in life was, a philosophy that resulted in death and destruction for many. I won't argue that he didn't have cause, just that I find it odd that for a country that has sacrificed oceans of blood in defending against terrorism and communism, that we would celebrate the life of one of it's followers and leaders. I have similar feelings about Gandhi, a guy who set into place a catastrophic set of ideals and policies that kept India enmeshed in poverty for decades.
One finds allies wherever he can find them. He didn't rule via what you claim was his ideology.
I agree, but in his case he was never our ally. I think a case that matches your post would be our marriage to the Soviets during WWII. And we didn't celebrate the death of Stalin or heap praises on the man. I think South Africa is where Nelson's efforts should be celebrated and rightfully so.
My comment was not that he was our ally, but that he found the communists to be an ally when nobody else would. You might also include our marriage to the Afghani terrorists when they were fighting the Soviets or the Chinese when we were fighting the Japanese. All countries, if they need allies, will accept the notion that,' My enemies enemy is my friend".
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Neutral
Member Avatar
Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
[ * ]
Statement of the South African Communist Party on Nelson Mandela
By Workers World staff on December 6, 2013

39
nelson_mandela2“The true revolutionary is guided by great feelings of love.”

Last night, the millions of the people of South Africa, majority of whom the working class and poor, and the billions of the rest of the people the world over, lost a true revolutionary, President Nelson Rolihlahla Mandela, Tata Madiba.

The South African Communist Party joins the people of South Africa and the world in expressing its most sincere condolences to Ms. Graca Machel and the entire Mandela family on the loss of what President Zuma correctly described as South Africa’s greatest son, Comrade Mandela.

We also wish to use this opportunity to express our solidarity with the African National Congress, an organisation that produced him and that he also served with distinction, as well as all his colleagues and comrades in our broader liberation movement. As Tata Madiba said, “It is not the kings and generals that make history but the masses of the people, the workers, the peasants. …”

The passing away of Comrade Mandela marks an end to the life of one of the greatest revolutionaries of the 20th century, who fought for freedom and against all forms of oppression in both their countries and globally. As part of the masses that make history, Comrade Mandela’s contribution in the struggle for freedom was located and steeled in the collective membership and leadership of our revolutionary national liberation movement as led by the ANC — for he was not an island. In Comrade Mandela we had a brave and courageous soldier, patriot and internationalist who, to borrow from Che Guevara, was a true revolutionary guided by great feelings of love for his people, an outstanding feature of all genuine people’s revolutionaries.

At his arrest in August 1962, Nelson Mandela was not only a member of the then underground South African Communist Party, but was also a member of our Party’s Central Committee. To us as South African communists, Comrade Mandela shall forever symbolise the monumental contribution of the SACP in our liberation struggle. The contribution of communists in the struggle to achieve the South African freedom has very few parallels in the history of our country. After his release from prison in 1990, Comrade Madiba became a great and close friend of the communists till his last days.

The one major lesson we need to learn from Mandela and his generation of leaders was their commitment to principled unity within each of our Alliance formations as well as the unity of our Alliance as a whole and that of the entire mass democratic movement. Their generation struggled to build and cement the unity of our Alliance, and we therefore owe it to the memory of Comrade Madiba to preserve the unity of our Alliance. Let those who do not understand the extent to which blood was spilt in pursuance of Alliance unity be reminded not to throw mud at the legacy and memory of the likes of Madiba by being reckless and gambling with the unity of our Alliance.

The SACP supported Madiba’s championing of national reconciliation. But national reconciliation for him never meant avoiding tackling the class and other social inequalities in our society, as some would like to make us believe today. For Madiba, national reconciliation was a platform to pursue the objective of building a more egalitarian South African society free of the scourge of racism, patriarchy and gross inequalities. And true national reconciliation shall never be achieved in a society still characterized by the yawning gap of inequalities and capitalist exploitation.

In honour of this gallant fighter, the SACP will intensify the struggle against all forms of inequality, including intensifying the struggle for socialism, as the only political and economic solution to the problems facing humanity.

For the SACP, the passing away of Madiba must give all those South Africans who had not fully embraced a democratic South Africa, and who still in one way or the other hanker to the era of white domination, a second chance to come to terms with a democratic South Africa founded on the principle of majority rule.

We call upon all South Africans to emulate his example of selflessness, sacrifice, commitment and service to his people.
http://www.workers.org/articles/2013/12/06/statement-south-african-communist-party-nelson-mandela/
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Pat
Member Avatar
Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
[ * ]
Yep, comrade Mandela.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mountainrivers
Member Avatar
Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
[ * ]
Pat
Dec 9 2013, 02:42 AM
Yep, comrade Mandela.
Whether or not he was a communist, he didn't rule like a communist, so what's your point?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Thumper
Member Avatar
Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
[ * ]
I agree with Pat on his take on Mandela. Looks like 27 years in prison straightened him out tho. I do get a little tired of all the celebration over every Black that accomplished something the least bit noteworthy. Add MLK to the list of those receiving much more notoriety and admiration for little accomplishment.















Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
colo_crawdad
Member Avatar
Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
[ * ]
I find it hard to understand why so many on the US right cannot, or will not, understand how their right wing policies have forced many folks like Mandela to create alliances with communists. It happened in the 50s south of the US border and it happened in Mandela's case.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Pat
Member Avatar
Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
[ * ]
What got my goat Thumper was having the guy compared to Churchill. I don't doubt that he learned something over time but just can't support someone whose believes and ambitions were opposite of my own and my country.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
ZetaBoards - Free Forum Hosting
Free Forums with no limits on posts or members.
Learn More · Sign-up for Free
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Fire And Ice General Discussion · Next Topic »
Add Reply

Website Traffic Analysis