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Given the deep/deepening recession, do you think it was wise
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Topic Started: Nov 30 2013, 10:46 PM (3,473 Views)
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colo_crawdad
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Dec 10 2013, 12:49 AM
Post #181
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Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
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- Pat
- Dec 10 2013, 12:28 AM
- colo_crawdad
- Dec 10 2013, 12:03 AM
Pat,
Please explain what you think you mean by "moral relativism." I don't think it is my bag either.
I'm not a philosophy expert Neal but I have read and studied the subject both early Greek and modern. I think what attracts me is finding in someone else's thoughts and words what I find true in my own life. I'm not the same now as I was growing up, I doubt anybody is. One event in my life that totally disrupted what I considered normal and balanced was combat. Not cops and robbers or white hats and black hats at the OK coral, but the senseless and unrelenting kind where fear and stress just never leaves you. I will save the story, storys as they are less important than what it took to find balance again. I talk too much so getting to your point, moral relativism in my mind is when a person or society condemns and celebrates the same action and behavior under differing conditions and self centered desires. I think a clear example is using drones in combat on a civilian population and them returning home and condemning a woman's right to choose. I don't want to take this thread off in that direction but the point is a clear case of what I'm getting at when I bring the term into a conversation. I m not Neal, but I think the answer was aimed at me. Given the definition is: "moral relativism in my mind is when a person or society condemns and celebrates the same action and behavior under differing conditions and self centered desires.," it appears to me that Pat, you are into moral relativism. You propose allowing or helping those undesirables in our society to die. I think the wold society made a very clear statement about such actions at Nuremberg. You application is just a bit different. That appears to fit your definition of moral relativism even it the fit is unintentional.
To me, it was morally repugnant when practiced by the Nazis and would be moral repugnant if practiced by the United States.
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Banandangees
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Dec 10 2013, 12:57 AM
Post #182
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- Mountainrivers
- Dec 9 2013, 11:36 PM
- Pat
- Dec 9 2013, 11:29 PM
What's that NY Times article say, I'm using the granddaughter's computer this week with Window's 8.1, for some reason many articles and videos are blank when I click on the link.
It focuses on a little black girl living in NY city in a shelter with her parents and several other children. The fetid conditions they live in, the lack of money for good food and clothes, the humiliation she endures in her rundown school due to living in a shelter. The nearness of immense wealth and her reaction to it. It's a sad story repeated in many places around the country about children who grow up in horrible conditions and how difficult it is for them to comprehend. When kids are subjected to that kind of environment, it's not too hard to realize that they become like their parents. I think Pat and most people realize that there are some people like this little girl. Many of us have seen it first hand. To say Pat has no clue is crap. That's what started this conversation. Do you think that Sea has more of a real idea, other than what he reads or hears about, than does Pat concerning the plight of that little girl? I don't think so. Sea, way back, said he's lived his whole life in Port Dover, and from I can see and read, Port Dover is a pretty nice place to live your life. I doubt there are any little girls like this little girl in Port Dover. His occupation was fishing in Lake Erie. While I'm sure that was hard work and could be long hours, that's nothing new, people do it all the time, but it has little exposure to the extreme that the article indicates that this little girl faces. But what put that girl in that place? It wasn't Pat anymore than it was Sea, me or you.
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Pat
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Dec 10 2013, 12:58 AM
Post #183
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- colo_crawdad
- Dec 10 2013, 12:49 AM
- Pat
- Dec 10 2013, 12:28 AM
- colo_crawdad
- Dec 10 2013, 12:03 AM
Pat,
Please explain what you think you mean by "moral relativism." I don't think it is my bag either.
I'm not a philosophy expert Neal but I have read and studied the subject both early Greek and modern. I think what attracts me is finding in someone else's thoughts and words what I find true in my own life. I'm not the same now as I was growing up, I doubt anybody is. One event in my life that totally disrupted what I considered normal and balanced was combat. Not cops and robbers or white hats and black hats at the OK coral, but the senseless and unrelenting kind where fear and stress just never leaves you. I will save the story, storys as they are less important than what it took to find balance again. I talk too much so getting to your point, moral relativism in my mind is when a person or society condemns and celebrates the same action and behavior under differing conditions and self centered desires. I think a clear example is using drones in combat on a civilian population and them returning home and condemning a woman's right to choose. I don't want to take this thread off in that direction but the point is a clear case of what I'm getting at when I bring the term into a conversation.
I m not Neal, but I think the answer was aimed at me. Given the definition is: "moral relativism in my mind is when a person or society condemns and celebrates the same action and behavior under differing conditions and self centered desires.," it appears to me that Pat, you are into moral relativism. You propose allowing or helping those undesirables in our society to die. I think the wold society made a very clear statement about such actions at Nuremberg. You application is just a bit different. That appears to fit your definition of moral relativism even it the fit is unintentional. To me, it was morally repugnant when practiced by the Nazis and would be moral repugnant if practiced by the United States. Interesting take on what I wrote and believe.
There are international as well as national laws against genocide and war crimes in general. There is no law that requires people to address as an individual another person's social failings. That I'm aware of. If there were, then I would object based upon my natural right to live freely and the constitution.
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Mountainrivers
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Dec 10 2013, 01:06 AM
Post #184
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- Banandangees
- Dec 10 2013, 12:57 AM
- Mountainrivers
- Dec 9 2013, 11:36 PM
- Pat
- Dec 9 2013, 11:29 PM
What's that NY Times article say, I'm using the granddaughter's computer this week with Window's 8.1, for some reason many articles and videos are blank when I click on the link.
It focuses on a little black girl living in NY city in a shelter with her parents and several other children. The fetid conditions they live in, the lack of money for good food and clothes, the humiliation she endures in her rundown school due to living in a shelter. The nearness of immense wealth and her reaction to it. It's a sad story repeated in many places around the country about children who grow up in horrible conditions and how difficult it is for them to comprehend. When kids are subjected to that kind of environment, it's not too hard to realize that they become like their parents.
I think Pat and most people realize that there are some people like this little girl. Many of us have seen it first hand. To say Pat has no clue is crap. That's what started this conversation. Do you think that Sea has more of a real idea, other than what he reads or hears about, than does Pat concerning the plight of that little girl? I don't think so. Sea, way back, said he's lived his whole life in Port Dover, and from I can see and read, Port Dover is a pretty nice place to live your life. I doubt there are any little girls like this little girl in Port Dover. His occupation was fishing in Lake Erie. While I'm sure that was hard work and could be long hours, that's nothing new, people do it all the time, but it has little exposure to the extreme that the article indicates that this little girl faces. But what put that girl in that place? It wasn't Pat anymore than it was Sea, me or you. "To say Pat has no clue is crap."
I will let Pat tell us whether or not that's true. You sure as hell don't know.
Sea doesn't harp constantly about deadbeats. Quite the contrary. Stop making stuff up , Ban. No one said Pat put that little girl in that place. We are talking about conditions which Pat has never been exposed to and, imo, can't completely understand. Besides, why don't you let Pat defend his positions?
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Mountainrivers
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Dec 10 2013, 01:18 AM
Post #185
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Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
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- Mountainrivers
- Dec 10 2013, 01:06 AM
- Banandangees
- Dec 10 2013, 12:57 AM
- Mountainrivers
- Dec 9 2013, 11:36 PM
- Pat
- Dec 9 2013, 11:29 PM
What's that NY Times article say, I'm using the granddaughter's computer this week with Window's 8.1, for some reason many articles and videos are blank when I click on the link.
It focuses on a little black girl living in NY city in a shelter with her parents and several other children. The fetid conditions they live in, the lack of money for good food and clothes, the humiliation she endures in her rundown school due to living in a shelter. The nearness of immense wealth and her reaction to it. It's a sad story repeated in many places around the country about children who grow up in horrible conditions and how difficult it is for them to comprehend. When kids are subjected to that kind of environment, it's not too hard to realize that they become like their parents.
I think Pat and most people realize that there are some people like this little girl. Many of us have seen it first hand. To say Pat has no clue is crap. That's what started this conversation. Do you think that Sea has more of a real idea, other than what he reads or hears about, than does Pat concerning the plight of that little girl? I don't think so. Sea, way back, said he's lived his whole life in Port Dover, and from I can see and read, Port Dover is a pretty nice place to live your life. I doubt there are any little girls like this little girl in Port Dover. His occupation was fishing in Lake Erie. While I'm sure that was hard work and could be long hours, that's nothing new, people do it all the time, but it has little exposure to the extreme that the article indicates that this little girl faces. But what put that girl in that place? It wasn't Pat anymore than it was Sea, me or you.
"To say Pat has no clue is crap." I will let Pat tell us whether or not that's true. You sure as hell don't know. Sea doesn't harp constantly about deadbeats. Quite the contrary. Stop making stuff up , Ban. No one said Pat put that little girl in that place. We are talking about conditions which Pat has never been exposed to and, imo, can't completely understand. Besides, why don't you let Pat defend his positions? I object to the premise of this thread. I know, a little late, but noteworthy nevertheless. We are not in a recession and even if we were, it is not getting worse.
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Brewster
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Dec 10 2013, 01:41 AM
Post #186
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- Mountainrivers
- Dec 10 2013, 01:18 AM
I object to the premise of this thread. I know, a little late, but noteworthy nevertheless. We are not in a recession and even if we were, it is not getting worse. You are if your only sources of information are the bozos in Right Wing Echo Chamber
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Pat
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Dec 10 2013, 02:58 AM
Post #187
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OK, I tracked down the article and here is my take.
quote--
"Dasani’s circumstances are largely the outcome of parental dysfunction. While nearly one-third of New York’s homeless children are supported by a working adult, her mother and father are unemployed, have a history of arrests and are battling drug addiction."
A bullet to the heads of those two deadbeats would bring a smile to my face.
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Mountainrivers
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Dec 10 2013, 03:15 AM
Post #188
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- Pat
- Dec 10 2013, 02:58 AM
OK, I tracked down the article and here is my take.
quote--
"Dasani’s circumstances are largely the outcome of parental dysfunction. While nearly one-third of New York’s homeless children are supported by a working adult, her mother and father are unemployed, have a history of arrests and are battling drug addiction."
A bullet to the heads of those two deadbeats would bring a smile to my face. Is that your solution for every little girl who's parents are unemployed drug addicts? She probably loves her parents. They seem to love her too. Probably taking her and her siblings away from her parents and placing them in a permanent loving home would bee the ideal solution, but finding homes for all those kids would be hard.
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Banandangees
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Dec 10 2013, 06:06 AM
Post #189
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- Mountainrivers
- Dec 10 2013, 01:06 AM
"To say Pat has no clue is crap."
I will let Pat tell us whether or not that's true. You sure as hell don't know.
Sea doesn't harp constantly about deadbeats. Quite the contrary. Stop making stuff up , Ban. No one said Pat put that little girl in that place. We are talking about conditions which Pat has never been exposed to and, imo, can't completely understand. Besides, why don't you let Pat defend his positions?
Well then, that makes two of us doesn't it.
Sea doesn't call them deadbeats. He uses the usual "liberale" approach and "constantly" calls attention to the plight of the poor while taking the usual position of the average "liberale" and yells from his comfy position for somebody to help the poor. What sacrifices do the average "liberale" make?
And you say I should let pat answer those who criticize him while you got into this conversation between my challenge to Sea by answering for Sea. Your advice doesn't seem to apply to you. Another usual characteristic of the "liberale."
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Mountainrivers
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Dec 10 2013, 06:24 AM
Post #190
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- Banandangees
- Dec 10 2013, 06:06 AM
- Mountainrivers
- Dec 10 2013, 01:06 AM
"To say Pat has no clue is crap."
I will let Pat tell us whether or not that's true. You sure as hell don't know.
Sea doesn't harp constantly about deadbeats. Quite the contrary. Stop making stuff up , Ban. No one said Pat put that little girl in that place. We are talking about conditions which Pat has never been exposed to and, imo, can't completely understand. Besides, why don't you let Pat defend his positions?
Well then, that makes two of us doesn't it. Sea doesn't call them deadbeats. He uses the usual "liberale" approach and "constantly" calls attention to the plight of the poor while taking the usual position of the average "liberale" and yells from his comfy position for somebody to help the poor. What sacrifices do the average "liberale" make? And you say I should let pat answer those who criticize him while you got into this conversation between my challenge to Sea by answering for Sea. Your advice doesn't seem to apply to you. Another usual characteristic of the "liberale." What do you know about what liberals do? The answer is NOTHING? It's getting pretty old reading your constant claim that liberals do nothing to help the poor. You don't know what you're talking about, just talking. I guess it makes you feel better to make that claim. If it makes you feel even better, you can tell me to let Sea answer his own questions. I simply picked up on what he said and made my own comment. But the various claims you make are the usual characteristics of conservatives. Does spelling it liberale mean anything?
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