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Given the deep/deepening recession, do you think it was wise
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Topic Started: Nov 30 2013, 10:46 PM (3,474 Views)
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colo_crawdad
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Dec 9 2013, 11:58 PM
Post #171
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- Pat
- Dec 9 2013, 11:51 PM
As you know Neal I believe that with all the resources available from education to social services, people can and should pull themselves up and out of situations like you described. OK, so the argument can be that it is too difficult, that not everybody will do that. Well in such a case the truly unfortunate situation may very well be that we are interfering with natural law and selection. Yea I know that is very cold hearted to even suggest such a thing. OK, then is it cold hearted to neuter people that as adults won't act on the basic instinct to survive and prosper, after all we are at the top of the food chain as a species? I agree that it can be heart wrenching to witness the adverse conditions that people willingly place their offspring in, but after stuffing the Salvation Army bucket, donating time and money to public service causes, what the hell more are we supposed to do? There has not been a more coddled population on the planet, for crying out loud the very shelter these people use, the food they eat, the clothes they wear, the medical care they receive, the parks and playgrounds they enjoy, the education they receive, when is enough enough? Who the hell told, them to get addicted to drugs? Who told them to drop out of school?
I'm solid with Senator Paul on this, we are doing a disservice to coddle people beyond what should be reasonable. I'm sorry this little kid is where she is, but it's not like there are no resources she can use for free to pull herself up and out, others do. What would you suggest Neal, we all have some kind of harness on our backs so we can carry one of these people around with us and tend to their every need and desire? To me, those positions are not cold hearted,Pat. They are simply morally repugnant. But, I know, I am not a right wing ideologue and do not truly understand how one can follow mor accept that ideology.
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Pat
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Dec 9 2013, 11:59 PM
Post #172
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No, admittedly I spoke without reading the article. I still wish that you or someone would tell me what the hell more we can do? There comes a point where you become numbed to the hands reaching out.
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Mountainrivers
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Dec 10 2013, 12:00 AM
Post #173
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- colo_crawdad
- Dec 9 2013, 11:58 PM
- Pat
- Dec 9 2013, 11:51 PM
As you know Neal I believe that with all the resources available from education to social services, people can and should pull themselves up and out of situations like you described. OK, so the argument can be that it is too difficult, that not everybody will do that. Well in such a case the truly unfortunate situation may very well be that we are interfering with natural law and selection. Yea I know that is very cold hearted to even suggest such a thing. OK, then is it cold hearted to neuter people that as adults won't act on the basic instinct to survive and prosper, after all we are at the top of the food chain as a species? I agree that it can be heart wrenching to witness the adverse conditions that people willingly place their offspring in, but after stuffing the Salvation Army bucket, donating time and money to public service causes, what the hell more are we supposed to do? There has not been a more coddled population on the planet, for crying out loud the very shelter these people use, the food they eat, the clothes they wear, the medical care they receive, the parks and playgrounds they enjoy, the education they receive, when is enough enough? Who the hell told, them to get addicted to drugs? Who told them to drop out of school?
I'm solid with Senator Paul on this, we are doing a disservice to coddle people beyond what should be reasonable. I'm sorry this little kid is where she is, but it's not like there are no resources she can use for free to pull herself up and out, others do. What would you suggest Neal, we all have some kind of harness on our backs so we can carry one of these people around with us and tend to their every need and desire?
To me, those positions are not cold hearted,Pat. They are simply morally repugnant. But, I know, I am not a right wing ideologue and do not truly understand how one can follow mor accept that ideology. It seems that to conservatives, morals only matter if it involves abortion, religion or guns.
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Pat
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Dec 10 2013, 12:00 AM
Post #174
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- colo_crawdad
- Dec 9 2013, 11:58 PM
- Pat
- Dec 9 2013, 11:51 PM
As you know Neal I believe that with all the resources available from education to social services, people can and should pull themselves up and out of situations like you described. OK, so the argument can be that it is too difficult, that not everybody will do that. Well in such a case the truly unfortunate situation may very well be that we are interfering with natural law and selection. Yea I know that is very cold hearted to even suggest such a thing. OK, then is it cold hearted to neuter people that as adults won't act on the basic instinct to survive and prosper, after all we are at the top of the food chain as a species? I agree that it can be heart wrenching to witness the adverse conditions that people willingly place their offspring in, but after stuffing the Salvation Army bucket, donating time and money to public service causes, what the hell more are we supposed to do? There has not been a more coddled population on the planet, for crying out loud the very shelter these people use, the food they eat, the clothes they wear, the medical care they receive, the parks and playgrounds they enjoy, the education they receive, when is enough enough? Who the hell told, them to get addicted to drugs? Who told them to drop out of school?
I'm solid with Senator Paul on this, we are doing a disservice to coddle people beyond what should be reasonable. I'm sorry this little kid is where she is, but it's not like there are no resources she can use for free to pull herself up and out, others do. What would you suggest Neal, we all have some kind of harness on our backs so we can carry one of these people around with us and tend to their every need and desire?
To me, those positions are not cold hearted,Pat. They are simply morally repugnant. But, I know, I am not a right wing ideologue and do not truly understand how one can follow mor accept that ideology. As I said I haven't a clue what more I can do. I'm a reasonable person but you are right, moral relativism is not my bag.
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colo_crawdad
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Dec 10 2013, 12:03 AM
Post #175
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Pat,
Please explain what you think you mean by "moral relativism." I don't think it is my bag either.
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Mountainrivers
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Dec 10 2013, 12:04 AM
Post #176
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- Pat
- Dec 9 2013, 11:59 PM
No, admittedly I spoke without reading the article. I still wish that you or someone would tell me what the hell more we can do? There comes a point where you become numbed to the hands reaching out. Yes, it seems you are numb. You really should read that article. I don't think you are as hard-hearted as you appear to be sometimes and being exposed to the harsh reality of everyday life among the children of the poor should be an eye opener. Admittedly, it's a long article, but, imo, well worth the time it takes to read it. Perhaps, I don't know, but perhaps you don't really want to know about that kind of thing. It's much easier to complain about deadbeats than it is to try to understand their plight.
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Sea Dog
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Dec 10 2013, 12:27 AM
Post #177
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I am with Pat on this one. The girl is eleven, plenty old enough to get her ass out on the street, easy money to be made there!
Link:
http://www.nytimes.com/projects/2013/invisible-child/#/?chapt=1
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Pat
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Dec 10 2013, 12:28 AM
Post #178
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- colo_crawdad
- Dec 10 2013, 12:03 AM
Pat,
Please explain what you think you mean by "moral relativism." I don't think it is my bag either. I'm not a philosophy expert Neal but I have read and studied the subject both early Greek and modern. I think what attracts me is finding in someone else's thoughts and words what I find true in my own life. I'm not the same now as I was growing up, I doubt anybody is. One event in my life that totally disrupted what I considered normal and balanced was combat. Not cops and robbers or white hats and black hats at the OK coral, but the senseless and unrelenting kind where fear and stress just never leaves you. I will save the story, storys as they are less important than what it took to find balance again. I talk too much so getting to your point, moral relativism in my mind is when a person or society condemns and celebrates the same action and behavior under differing conditions and self centered desires. I think a clear example is using drones in combat on a civilian population and them returning home and condemning a woman's right to choose. I don't want to take this thread off in that direction but the point is a clear case of what I'm getting at when I bring the term into a conversation.
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Mountainrivers
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Dec 10 2013, 12:38 AM
Post #179
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- Pat
- Dec 10 2013, 12:28 AM
- colo_crawdad
- Dec 10 2013, 12:03 AM
Pat,
Please explain what you think you mean by "moral relativism." I don't think it is my bag either.
I'm not a philosophy expert Neal but I have read and studied the subject both early Greek and modern. I think what attracts me is finding in someone else's thoughts and words what I find true in my own life. I'm not the same now as I was growing up, I doubt anybody is. One event in my life that totally disrupted what I considered normal and balanced was combat. Not cops and robbers or white hats and black hats at the OK coral, but the senseless and unrelenting kind where fear and stress just never leaves you. I will save the story, storys as they are less important than what it took to find balance again. I talk too much so getting to your point, moral relativism in my mind is when a person or society condemns and celebrates the same action and behavior under differing conditions and self centered desires. I think a clear example is using drones in combat on a civilian population and them returning home and condemning a woman's right to choose. I don't want to take this thread off in that direction but the point is a clear case of what I'm getting at when I bring the term into a conversation. Pat! Lay off the Foster's. Colo is not Neal.
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Pat
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Dec 10 2013, 12:43 AM
Post #180
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Brain fart. I'm losing my mind and I'm not afraid to admit it.
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