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Given the deep/deepening recession, do you think it was wise
Topic Started: Nov 30 2013, 10:46 PM (3,479 Views)
Banandangees
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Sea Dog
Dec 7 2013, 09:43 PM
The assumption is being made that Pat invested
200 thousand forty years ago.


How many of us had that kind of money to invest
during the Carter years?

As an aside, my annual end of year visit
with my broker was yesterday.

Return on investments for the year,
10.26 percent!

That's not the assumption. Go back and read my Post #108. The assumption is that Pat could have accumulated $200,00 over a forty year period, which I would hope if very possible and if not, why invest at all, and then invested that $200,000 in 2004 by buying Google stock at $85.00 per share. Today, those Google shares would be worth just shy of $2.5 million.
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Banandangees
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Mountainrivers
Dec 7 2013, 08:44 AM
Pat
Dec 7 2013, 07:10 AM
Banandangees
Dec 6 2013, 05:38 AM
Sea Dog
Dec 6 2013, 04:12 AM
Pat
Dec 6 2013, 02:31 AM
Sea Dog
Dec 5 2013, 09:38 PM
Since I have been drawn into the discussion,
I am curios as to how much Pat would have paid into
Medicare and SS.

The reason being, I am wondering how much investment it takes
to gain a profit of 2.5 million.
The max Sea Dog and here is the problem with what I assume you are suggesting. You se Sea Dog, one would never know exactly what the return of the money would have been yet if I compared it to later returns on investments and projects I see no reason why I was exaggerating. Yet again, you never know. I did what the law said I must Sea Dog and expect the government now to own up to it's end of the bargain. With mega cities going bankrupt it wouldn't surprise me that if one day soon both medicare and social security are reframed into a program or two that is aimed at dismantling the programs and spreading the payroll tax benefits across the board to the poor. We are already witnessing with medicare a large chunk being diverted to Obamacare.
Well, Pat.
Assuming a ten fold return,
which is pretty darn good,
you would have had to have paid two hundred fifty thousand into
Medicare and SS.

I have no idea if this is a reasonable sum to have paid in.
Seems high to me.
Two decades ago I invested $200,000 in a triple A rated, triple tax free, insured, PA bond at 5% interest, just to get $10,000 interest, tax free each year.

Had Pat invested the same $200,000 that he could have earned in good conservative investments over the 40 year period he worked instead of paying forced SS/Medicare tax and then in August 2004 invested those earnings in Google when they went public with shares at $85.00 per share, the value of his stock today (at $1085 per share) would be worth $2,489,411.76. Just since 2004.... 9 years. So, it is possible that Pat could have used that forced tax to earn himself very close to $2.5 million.
Oh quit making sense Ban. :smile:
There's not a whole lot of sense involved in speculating.

But that's what investing in the stock market is.... speculating. Wall Street is all speculating unless you're an "insider investor," which is illegal from what I understand.
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Mountainrivers
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Banandangees
Dec 8 2013, 07:54 AM
Mountainrivers
Dec 7 2013, 08:44 AM
Pat
Dec 7 2013, 07:10 AM
Banandangees
Dec 6 2013, 05:38 AM
Sea Dog
Dec 6 2013, 04:12 AM
Pat
Dec 6 2013, 02:31 AM
Sea Dog
Dec 5 2013, 09:38 PM
Since I have been drawn into the discussion,
I am curios as to how much Pat would have paid into
Medicare and SS.

The reason being, I am wondering how much investment it takes
to gain a profit of 2.5 million.
The max Sea Dog and here is the problem with what I assume you are suggesting. You se Sea Dog, one would never know exactly what the return of the money would have been yet if I compared it to later returns on investments and projects I see no reason why I was exaggerating. Yet again, you never know. I did what the law said I must Sea Dog and expect the government now to own up to it's end of the bargain. With mega cities going bankrupt it wouldn't surprise me that if one day soon both medicare and social security are reframed into a program or two that is aimed at dismantling the programs and spreading the payroll tax benefits across the board to the poor. We are already witnessing with medicare a large chunk being diverted to Obamacare.
Well, Pat.
Assuming a ten fold return,
which is pretty darn good,
you would have had to have paid two hundred fifty thousand into
Medicare and SS.

I have no idea if this is a reasonable sum to have paid in.
Seems high to me.
Two decades ago I invested $200,000 in a triple A rated, triple tax free, insured, PA bond at 5% interest, just to get $10,000 interest, tax free each year.

Had Pat invested the same $200,000 that he could have earned in good conservative investments over the 40 year period he worked instead of paying forced SS/Medicare tax and then in August 2004 invested those earnings in Google when they went public with shares at $85.00 per share, the value of his stock today (at $1085 per share) would be worth $2,489,411.76. Just since 2004.... 9 years. So, it is possible that Pat could have used that forced tax to earn himself very close to $2.5 million.
Oh quit making sense Ban. :smile:
There's not a whole lot of sense involved in speculating.

But that's what investing in the stock market is.... speculating. Wall Street is all speculating unless you're an "insider investor," which is illegal from what I understand.
Not talking about speculating in the market. Talking about speculating about whether Pat could have turned his SS and Medicare contributions into 2.5 million dollars.
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Berton
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Isn't speculating what some are doing when they say Pat could not have made $2.5 M by investing his SS and Medicare contributions over the years?

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Mountainrivers
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Berton
Dec 8 2013, 08:42 PM
Isn't speculating what some are doing when they say Pat could not have made $2.5 M by investing his SS and Medicare contributions over the years?

Nobody has said he couldn't. We've just expressed doubt.
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Banandangees
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Mountainrivers
Dec 8 2013, 08:36 PM
Not talking about speculating in the market. Talking about speculating about whether Pat could have turned his SS and Medicare contributions into 2.5 million dollars.

It's okay to speculate "doubt" as to whether or not Pat could have turned his SS and Medicare contributions into $2.5 million, but we just showed you how he very well could have. The small, long haul was turning his (probably more than) 40 years of SS and Medicare tax savings into $200,000 by the year 2004, (a period of probably over 50 years), then the big haul from investing that in Google at $85 in 2004 and cashing it in today at $1069 per share, ....... and then, gain even more still in the near future by investing now in the coming increase in pharmaceuticals or fast food companies as their share rates go up from the effects of Obamacare
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Mountainrivers
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Banandangees
Dec 8 2013, 10:35 PM
Mountainrivers
Dec 8 2013, 08:36 PM
Not talking about speculating in the market. Talking about speculating about whether Pat could have turned his SS and Medicare contributions into 2.5 million dollars.

It's okay to speculate "doubt" as to whether or not Pat could have turned his SS and Medicare contributions into $2.5 million, but we just showed you how he very well could have. The small, long haul was turning his (probably more than) 40 years of SS and Medicare tax savings into $200,000 by the year 2004, (a period of probably over 50 years), then the big haul from investing that in Google at $85 in 2004 and cashing it in today at $1069 per share, ....... and then, gain even more still in the near future by investing now in the coming increase in pharmaceuticals or fast food companies as their share rates go up from the effects of Obamacare
That's a lot of probably, could have, and maybe investing in Google. You can do anything with those phrases. That's another problem with cons, they don't live in the real world.
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Neutral
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Investing isn't in the real world? LOL
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colo_crawdad
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Speaking of Pat and payments to Medicare. Remembering when those very small taxes were taken out of payroll, I rather image that if truth were told, Pat', hip replacement more that used up significantly more than Pat ever paid into Medicare. That " return on investment" had to be in the rather high double figures. I don't fault Pat for claiming he could have gotten a much higher return on the relatively few dollars paid into Medicare, I just doubt he could have gotten a higher yield on his investment that he, in fact, received.
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Banandangees
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Mountainrivers
Dec 8 2013, 10:39 PM
Banandangees
Dec 8 2013, 10:35 PM
Mountainrivers
Dec 8 2013, 08:36 PM
Not talking about speculating in the market. Talking about speculating about whether Pat could have turned his SS and Medicare contributions into 2.5 million dollars.

It's okay to speculate "doubt" as to whether or not Pat could have turned his SS and Medicare contributions into $2.5 million, but we just showed you how he very well could have. The small, long haul was turning his (probably more than) 40 years of SS and Medicare tax savings into $200,000 by the year 2004, (a period of probably over 50 years), then the big haul from investing that in Google at $85 in 2004 and cashing it in today at $1069 per share, ....... and then, gain even more still in the near future by investing now in the coming increase in pharmaceuticals or fast food companies as their share rates go up from the effects of Obamacare
That's a lot of probably, could have, and maybe investing in Google. You can do anything with those phrases. That's another problem with cons, they don't live in the real world.
MR, the task at hand from Sea's question, way back, was "how could Pat have gained $2.5 million. I showed you how that could have been done in "the real world." It's a fact, not speculation, that Google stock increased 10 fold in just 9 years. Anyone who would have, and I'm sure there are many that did, invest in Google in 2004 would have increased the value of their investment by 10X. That's a fact. Would Pat have invested the full $200,000 that he accumulated in those more than 40 years from his tax savings can be speculated. Hell, I invested $200,000 in a 5% yield muni at a time when my entire worth was only maybe 3X that. You make it sound like fantasy time when it's how many investments are made in the stock market.
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