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Given the deep/deepening recession, do you think it was wise
Topic Started: Nov 30 2013, 10:46 PM (3,480 Views)
Mountainrivers
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Banandangees
Dec 7 2013, 04:34 AM
Again, all I am saying is, to the question that Sea was asking Pat, it was very possible for Pat to have earned $2.5 million. Sure, he could have invested his invested earnings value from his tax money, in Ernon instead of Google, but it is not "insane to think that he could have seen the obvious potential in Google, took a chance and became a millionaire in over a 9 year period..... all with that tax money over 40 years. (IMO)

I am barely a millionaire, but not all by good fortune, although that played a part. I left the Army with little to nothing, went into some debt to get an education, took some chances on a private business and did well. I could be a bigger millionaire had I been more aggressive, but that's not my nature when it comes to taking a chance on what I've worked too hard and long to accumulate (thus the $200,000 invested in a AAA rate, triple tax free, insured, muni bond for a decade until it was "called)." it was money in the bank with very little risk..... and not taxable. I'm a fiscal conservative when it comes to me and mine. Again, that $200,000 was accumulated over a near 40 year period, not the only investments I made during those years and I was looking for a tax reducer during those years. If I did all this from scratch, why can't many others. It did take some sacrifices and always some luck..... but it's possible.... just as it would be for Pat to reach the $2.5 million on the investments from his SS/Medicare tax monies. I know it's not the most likely scenario. There are too many people that want the good times all the time and don't have the willingness and predisposition of restraint...... but it's possible.
Are we now going to only talk about what is possible rather than what is probable? if so, possibly Obama is going to be remembered as the best president this country has ever had and possibly I'm going to win the lottery and have more money than you. And possibly I'm going to live forever and taunt you wingnuts.
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Banandangees
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Live forever.... yeah, but your going to be in hell you atheist. develsmile


Well, Sea didn't differentiate between possible and probable when he asked the question of Pat. Maybe we ought to ask him if he meant probable or possible?
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Mountainrivers
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Banandangees
Dec 7 2013, 05:13 AM
Live forever.... yeah, but your going to be in hell you atheist. develsmile


Well, Sea didn't differentiate between possible and probable when he asked the question of Pat. Maybe we ought to ask him if he meant probable or possible?
If there is a hell, I'll probably be there. We can toast Satan as we sit around the fire.
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Pat
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Banandangees
Dec 6 2013, 05:38 AM
Sea Dog
Dec 6 2013, 04:12 AM
Pat
Dec 6 2013, 02:31 AM
Sea Dog
Dec 5 2013, 09:38 PM
Since I have been drawn into the discussion,
I am curios as to how much Pat would have paid into
Medicare and SS.

The reason being, I am wondering how much investment it takes
to gain a profit of 2.5 million.
The max Sea Dog and here is the problem with what I assume you are suggesting. You se Sea Dog, one would never know exactly what the return of the money would have been yet if I compared it to later returns on investments and projects I see no reason why I was exaggerating. Yet again, you never know. I did what the law said I must Sea Dog and expect the government now to own up to it's end of the bargain. With mega cities going bankrupt it wouldn't surprise me that if one day soon both medicare and social security are reframed into a program or two that is aimed at dismantling the programs and spreading the payroll tax benefits across the board to the poor. We are already witnessing with medicare a large chunk being diverted to Obamacare.
Well, Pat.
Assuming a ten fold return,
which is pretty darn good,
you would have had to have paid two hundred fifty thousand into
Medicare and SS.

I have no idea if this is a reasonable sum to have paid in.
Seems high to me.
Two decades ago I invested $200,000 in a triple A rated, triple tax free, insured, PA bond at 5% interest, just to get $10,000 interest, tax free each year.

Had Pat invested the same $200,000 that he could have earned in good conservative investments over the 40 year period he worked instead of paying forced SS/Medicare tax and then in August 2004 invested those earnings in Google when they went public with shares at $85.00 per share, the value of his stock today (at $1085 per share) would be worth $2,489,411.76. Just since 2004.... 9 years. So, it is possible that Pat could have used that forced tax to earn himself very close to $2.5 million.
Oh quit making sense Ban. :smile:
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Mountainrivers
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Pat
Dec 7 2013, 07:10 AM
Banandangees
Dec 6 2013, 05:38 AM
Sea Dog
Dec 6 2013, 04:12 AM
Pat
Dec 6 2013, 02:31 AM
Sea Dog
Dec 5 2013, 09:38 PM
Since I have been drawn into the discussion,
I am curios as to how much Pat would have paid into
Medicare and SS.

The reason being, I am wondering how much investment it takes
to gain a profit of 2.5 million.
The max Sea Dog and here is the problem with what I assume you are suggesting. You se Sea Dog, one would never know exactly what the return of the money would have been yet if I compared it to later returns on investments and projects I see no reason why I was exaggerating. Yet again, you never know. I did what the law said I must Sea Dog and expect the government now to own up to it's end of the bargain. With mega cities going bankrupt it wouldn't surprise me that if one day soon both medicare and social security are reframed into a program or two that is aimed at dismantling the programs and spreading the payroll tax benefits across the board to the poor. We are already witnessing with medicare a large chunk being diverted to Obamacare.
Well, Pat.
Assuming a ten fold return,
which is pretty darn good,
you would have had to have paid two hundred fifty thousand into
Medicare and SS.

I have no idea if this is a reasonable sum to have paid in.
Seems high to me.
Two decades ago I invested $200,000 in a triple A rated, triple tax free, insured, PA bond at 5% interest, just to get $10,000 interest, tax free each year.

Had Pat invested the same $200,000 that he could have earned in good conservative investments over the 40 year period he worked instead of paying forced SS/Medicare tax and then in August 2004 invested those earnings in Google when they went public with shares at $85.00 per share, the value of his stock today (at $1085 per share) would be worth $2,489,411.76. Just since 2004.... 9 years. So, it is possible that Pat could have used that forced tax to earn himself very close to $2.5 million.
Oh quit making sense Ban. :smile:
There's not a whole lot of sense involved in speculating.
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campingken
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According to their web site in June of 2013 37 million retired workers collected SS checks. Just think, if they all would have hired Pat and Ban to advise them we would be a nation were all seniors were multi millionaires.

If the 37 million would have all been allowed to keep their SS contributions and make their own decisions how many of them would be collecting welfare rather than SS? My bet is over 50%.
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Pat
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campingken
Dec 7 2013, 11:21 AM
According to their web site in June of 2013 37 million retired workers collected SS checks. Just think, if they all would have hired Pat and Ban to advise them we would be a nation were all seniors were multi millionaires.

If the 37 million would have all been allowed to keep their SS contributions and make their own decisions how many of them would be collecting welfare rather than SS? My bet is over 50%.
Yea, yea , yea Ken.

Most people would never listen or understood if we did.
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Sea Dog
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The assumption is being made that Pat invested
200 thousand forty years ago.

How many of us had that kind of money to invest
during the Carter years?

As an aside, my annual end of year visit
with my broker was yesterday.

Return on investments for the year,
10.26 percent!
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campingken
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Pat,

Personally I'm glad that I didn't listen to your Obama's re-election will destroy the stock market predication. It closed at over 16,000 yesterday and the gains have been across the board. :bounce:
Edited by campingken, Dec 8 2013, 07:25 AM.
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Neutral
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The Fed is funding the stock market and that can't last forever.
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