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| Tweet Topic Started: Nov 30 2013, 10:46 PM (3,481 Views) | |
| campingken | Dec 6 2013, 05:48 AM Post #101 |
Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
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Ban, Most workers contribute there SS money over their entire career. Maybe it is different where you live but out here very few people in the 20 - 40 age have a $200,000 lump sum to invest. Why didn't you list any "could have invested in companies" that have gone broke and caused their investors to lose everything? It is also possible that rather than earning more than 2.5 million Pat could have lost everything. |
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| Banandangees | Dec 6 2013, 05:57 AM Post #102 |
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All I'm saying is that it was possible for Pat to have earned $2.5 million. Some people spend their entire pay check when they get it, some invest a portion. That $200,000 that I invested was accumulated over a 40 year period in spite of paying SS and Medicare tax. It was an answer to Sea's question to Pat as to how he could have earned $2.5 million. Edited by Banandangees, Dec 6 2013, 05:58 AM.
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| Mountainrivers | Dec 6 2013, 06:12 AM Post #103 |
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With a lot of if's, you can arrive at any figure. It could have been 20 million instead of 2.5 million. This whole argument is ridiculous, imo. No one can say what the outcome would be if someone used the money they paid in to SS and Medicare to invest in speculative investments. |
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| Banandangees | Dec 6 2013, 06:27 AM Post #104 |
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BUT IT"S WAS POSSIBLE! Very possible! |
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| Neutral | Dec 6 2013, 07:57 AM Post #105 |
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It is possible for an individual but I wonder why our government can't do it. LOL |
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| colo_crawdad | Dec 6 2013, 09:12 AM Post #106 |
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I sincerely doubt that Pat had paid $200,000 into social security and medicare 40 years ago, especially since payments into medicare did not even exist 40 years ago. |
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| Berton | Dec 6 2013, 09:12 AM Post #107 |
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SS is a insurance policy. Nothing more, nothing less. If you live long enough you get to collect the benefits. If you don't then you don't collect. Edited by Berton, Dec 6 2013, 09:13 AM.
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| Banandangees | Dec 7 2013, 02:36 AM Post #108 |
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You misunderstand. I'm not saying that Pat paid $200,000 into SS/Medicare over a 40 year period. I'm saying that of the money he would have had over a 40 year period by not paying into SS/Medicare and had he invested that taxed amount each year over those 40 years (as I did with private money), that he could, in the 40 years, have accumulated $200,000 in invested value... $200,000 increased invested value in 40 years is very possible; then had he bought the Google stock when they first went public in August of 2004, with that $200,000 from his previous investments, the value of his Google stock would be worth over $2.4 million as of today. His 2,353 shares of Google bought for $200,000 at $85 per share in August of 2004 would have increased in value to $2.4 million today.... just in that 9 year period. SS tax began in the late 30s Medicare tax began in 1966, 47 years ago. |
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| campingken | Dec 7 2013, 03:02 AM Post #109 |
Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
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Ban, He could have also used that $200,000 and bought 10,000 shares of Washington Mutual when it was a "screaming deal" at $20 a share. Today he would have a tidy sum of zero to live on. Even if you were insanely lucky enough to turn your $200,000 into 2.5 million if you plan to live off the interest and protect your principal a safe CD would pay you $25,000 a year at the current rates. If a worker born around 1950 earns $80,000 a year today and waits until age 70 to collect SS he will receive $2672 a month. He will receive a yearly COLA and his wife will continue to receive this amount for the rest of her life if he dies before her. I'm going to go out on a limb here and will bet you that the average worker earning $80,000 a year today started working at a much lower amount and would not have been able to afford to invest $200,000 over his career. Also, if he could have, there is no investment available that would GUARENTEE him, and his wife, $2672 a month. |
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| Banandangees | Dec 7 2013, 04:34 AM Post #110 |
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Again, all I am saying is, to the question that Sea was asking Pat, it was very possible for Pat to have earned $2.5 million. Sure, he could have invested his invested earnings value from his tax money, in Ernon instead of Google, but it is not "insane to think that he could have seen the obvious potential in Google, took a chance and became a millionaire in over a 9 year period..... all with that tax money over 40 years. (IMO) I am barely a millionaire, but not all by good fortune, although that played a part. I left the Army with little to nothing, went into some debt to get an education, took some chances on a private business and did well. I could be a bigger millionaire had I been more aggressive, but that's not my nature when it comes to taking a chance on what I've worked too hard and long to accumulate (thus the $200,000 invested in a AAA rate, triple tax free, insured, muni bond for a decade until it was "called)." it was money in the bank with very little risk..... and not taxable. I'm a fiscal conservative when it comes to me and mine. Again, that $200,000 was accumulated over a near 40 year period, not the only investments I made during those years and I was looking for a tax reducer during those years. If I did all this from scratch, why can't many others. It did take some sacrifices and always some luck..... but it's possible.... just as it would be for Pat to reach the $2.5 million on the investments from his SS/Medicare tax monies. I know it's not the most likely scenario. There are too many people that want the good times all the time and don't have the willingness and predisposition of restraint...... but it's possible. |
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