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The 2nd Amendment to our constitution; Some thoughts
Topic Started: Mar 13 2013, 01:42 AM (717 Views)
Pat
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America was founded on PRINCIPLES of human rights that are aligned with the laws of nature. The second amendment is derived from the principle that every creature has the right to defend itself. If some guy walked in and started punching you in the face, no one would argue that you had the right to hit back. If he came in with a bat, no one would argue that you could pick up a chair or table leg, and would have every right to do so. But if he came in with a gun, then anti gun people are arguing that you no longer have that right. That you must become a helpless victim. That would be like saying you must tie your hands behind your back when the guy comes in to punch you, or hit you with a bat. You no longer have the right to defend yourself.

"But why do you need an assault rifle"?? This PRINCIPLE is not affected by time or technology, and it is self evident that it should apply to whatever the weapons of the day might be. Here is hoping that we never need our modern rifles for anything but 3 gun competitions and target practice, but in America we recognize the difference between having and not needing, and needing and not having.

You see in England, they have the royalty, who are sovereign, and have all the rights, and the subjects get to live their lives as long as they obey the rules that the sovereignty gives them. In America, we the people are the sovereigns, and we have allowed government the authority to handle certain things, all designed to protect our liberty. We don’t like the idea of being subjects. We are a nation of heroes and free thinkers, and the idea of leaving our people helpless to criminals or tyrants is offensive to us. In England or Canada they take comfort in the fact that, even though their rape, robbery, and murder statistics are comparable, gun related deaths are low. In America, we would rather think that some of those people who would be helpless victims in Europe or Canada, would have a chance to defend themselves here.

Anti gun people bring up the statistics of gun related deaths in America compared to England or Canada. The statistics have nothing to do with the PRINCIPLE, but let’s examine them for a moment. When you consider that there are around 52 million households owning 200 to 300 million guns, the number is amazingly low. It means that over 50 million gun owners (a number that dwarfs every other country in the world) in America harm no one. That means that the good guys outnumber the bad guys by a ridiculous margin, and in an increasingly dangerous world, only a fool would want to disarm the good guys.

Statistics bring little comfort to those good people who are so terribly affected by tragic events like in Connecticut recently. The startling reminder that there are monsters in the world compels them to want to do something. What they really want to do is outlaw the monsters, but they know that monsters do not obey laws. Encouraged by government and media, (who have a different agenda) they fall for the propaganda and lash out at the tool, as though it was the monster. They think that passing laws against them is going to somehow make 300 million guns unavailable to the monsters. Here is a reminder. Monsters don’t obey laws. You cannot un-invent guns, and even if it was a good idea (which it is not) we have two porous borders, thousands of miles of shoreline and 300 million guns already in the country. It would be impossible to make guns unavailable to those who would do harm.

So the only choice available to us is whether we understand the PRINCIPLES, and allow good Americans to be armed against criminals and tyrants, or you leave them helpless victims….like they do in England and Canada.

They say that people who want to keep weapons as a defense to tyranny are paranoid, and that it can never happen here. Really??? TSA, The Patriot Act, FISA, the NDAA,…if the government was not defecating on the Constitution every other week perhaps we could talk (no…we still couldn’t), and as they lead us into the very real possibility of a financial collapse, I don’t think this is a very good time to consider giving up our weapons. If you look at gun and ammo sales statistics from the last few weeks, I’d say a good portion of America agrees with me.

One wonders at the timing of this anti-gun barrage. Perhaps Congress knows more than they are saying about our financial situation and think that maybe we might hold a grudge against those who let it happen.

Much talk and emotion gets expressed on this board and quite a bit about gun control and the 2nd amendment. I know others here disagree with the above, which is fine. And I'm well aware of the anti private gun ownership agenda of some in congress and our president-- despite their media comment to the contrary. I'm also aware that this same government passed draconian anti drug laws. has prosecuted a drug war for going on fifty years, and there has been no drop in the availability of drugs. In fact the amount readily available in minutes on any street on the continent is astounding. The anti drug people and our government have failed to gain any headwaters yet anti gun people and the government think passing anti gun laws will end private ownership of guns.Instead like drugs...their availability to criminal elements will increase, while law abiding Americans in many cases will disarm themselves. Leaving them prey for the bad guys.

In my opinion, the anti private gun ownership people while believing they are doing the country a great service, are instead putting us all at risk. Think about it, use logic and reason as you address the subject.

The founding fathers were not wrong nor is the constitution out of touch with today;s world. Instead it is nearly mystical in the way to performs as formed with each passing generation. When older prejudices and bad amendments were passed, the wisdom of Americans prevailed and amended the document. The vast majority of Americans believe that in this area, the document is dead on.

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jackd
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A very nice self-serving essay by the NRA

Quote:
 
So the only choice available to us is whether we understand the PRINCIPLES, and allow good Americans to be armed against criminals and tyrants, or you leave them helpless victims….like they do in England and Canada.
and Japan, Sweden, Singapore, Malaysia, France, Belgium, Danemark, Findland, Greece, Germany, Australia, Italy, Netherland, Norway, Spain, Portugal, and 65 other civilized nation [/color] where the number of deaths by gun is far, very far from what is seen in the all mighty U.S. of A.
Simple logic should lead to logical conclusions: more guns = more deaths by gun.
I know it is hard to swallow...

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Sea Dog
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jackd.

The gun nut culture is so deeply ingrained into
a certain segment of the American population
that to try to interject common sense is futile.

Rational persons realize that they cannot stand
off the worlds greatest military with a hodge podge
of hand held weapons.

To the gun nuts and anti government types,
no problem!
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Banandangees
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What % of the male population in Canada own a firearm? Just curious.
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Neutral
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So says two who can't come to our country half their lives. LOL
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Banandangees
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Let me help:

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26. How many people in Canada legally own firearms?

According to the United Nations, Canada ranks third among the developed
western coutries (behind the US and Norway) in civilian ownership of
firearms.[40] A 1992 survey sponsored by the UN reported that 26% of
Canadians, over 7,000,000 people, own firearms.[41] A 1991 Justice
Department telephone survey indicated there were an average of 2.67
firearms in one of every four Canadian Households, with 71% having
access to a rifle, 64% to a shotgun, and 12% to a handgun. They
calculated that there are over six million legally owned firearms in
Canada. Other authorities insist that this estimate is much too low and
that there are at least 20,000,000 rifles and shotguns in Canada; as
many, per capita, as in the United States.

Past government surveys of much larger populations showed there were at
least 15,000,000 legal firearms back in the 1970s.[39] The government's
own estimate in Dec. 1976, published as part of its gun control
campaign, was 6,000,000 owners with 18,000,000 firearms. During
hearings on the Campbell bill, officials from the office of the Minister
of Justice testified that the long-term average net annual importation
of firearms into Canada (imports minus exports) was 190,000 per year.
Therefore, adding 190,000 per year to the 18,000,000 of 1976, we get a
total of 21,610,000 by Dec 1993. Subtract 610,000 plus one firearm for
every firearm manufactured in Canada during those 17 years as an
allowance for firearms destroyed, dismantled or worn out--and you are
back at 21,000,000 firearms with 7,000,000 owners. [38]

There were 1,221,179 registered restricted firearms in the RCMP FRAS
records in Dec 1993. The unrestricted firearm to "restricted" firearm
ratio is at least 20:1. Conservatively, that means 24,423,580
unrestricted plus 1,221,179 restricted. Allowing for errors in the
RCMP's registration system, we strike off 221,179 registered firearms as
non-existent, which reduces the total to 21,000,000 firearms with
7,000,000 owners. [38]

Restricted firearm ownership increased from 861,571 in Dec 1984 to
1,221,179 in Dec 93, an increase of (1,221,179 - 861,571) divided by
861,571 = 41.74 per cent in 9 years. Those figures are solid, because
they are taken from the Annual Report of the Commissioner of the RCMP.
The NFA estimates that the 1976 figure for total firearms owned,
18,000,000, increased to 21,000,000 by 1993. That represents a "total
firearms" increase of only 16.67 per cent in 17 years, which is again
quite conservative. [38]

None of the above estimates include any figures for illegally imported
firearms, which are known to have increased sharply each time
restrictive, costly, and/or vague legislation has made legal ownership
more complicated, more expensive, and/or more risky
[j/color].
Edited by Banandangees, Mar 13 2013, 02:36 AM.
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RTD
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I own 7 myself...
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Banandangees
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You must be one Canadian who belongs to the gun nut culture Sea refers to. :smile:

Some own guns, some own fishing poles. Sea was a fisherman.
Edited by Banandangees, Mar 13 2013, 02:46 AM.
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Pat
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Thanks for adding the Canadian gun ownership statistics Ban. I already knew that a substantial number of Canadian friends and family support my views on this, and own firearms. I think it is both naive and unsettling to read others label them as gun nuts. All are upstanding successful members of the community.
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Neutral
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That's the problem with this entire 2nd amendment debate, the anti gun crowd wants to take guns away from upstanding citizens.
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