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Hugo Chavez dies
Topic Started: Mar 6 2013, 07:07 AM (1,198 Views)
Mountainrivers
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Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
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Banandangees
Mar 7 2013, 09:47 PM
Mountainrivers
Mar 7 2013, 09:36 PM
Neutral
Mar 7 2013, 09:33 PM
LOL. THIS is what we always get when presenting the facts. Libs won't accept facts even from CNN.
Who cares, the SOB is dead.
They aren't necessarily facts. What they are is someone's opinion and you bite every time.

I have to wonder how much you looked into the Links by LINK:

http://www.vcrisis.com/Venezuela%20Presidential%20Referendum%20-%20Statistical%20Analysis%20May-2006.pdf

..unless you want to run your own "statistical study" to counter this one, you have little argument except for YOUR opinion.
Are you telling me that statistical analysis proves the election was rigged? Explain , please!
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Neutral
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Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
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Libs support Chavez because Chavez was anti America and a socialist.
You will never get them to admit he was a despot.
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Banandangees
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Mountainrivers
Mar 7 2013, 09:44 PM
Banandangees
Mar 7 2013, 09:31 PM
Mountainrivers
Mar 7 2013, 08:40 PM
Banandangees
Mar 7 2013, 07:39 AM
Mountainrivers
Mar 7 2013, 05:36 AM
Banandangees
Mar 7 2013, 05:28 AM
He won't stay off the air. Everywhere you turn, NBC, CBS, ABC, MSNBC, CNN.... everywhere... there he is, prophesying disaster if'n he doesn't get his way. Scaring the pants off his followers and how much they stand to lose. Chasm building. Busy, busy, busy... if only he'd get the senators (both parties) and Congress (both parties) in for a "sit down." and don't come out until the fiscal mess is straightened out. Lead for a change... that would be refreshing. Lead instead of dividing.
He's done exactly that, Ban and the reps have refused to cooperate every time. Why should he continue to make himself look foolish?
You don't negotiate and compromise through campaigning from state to state, you sit down in a room (like Christie said) with members from both parties and negotiate there, and compromise there. Maybe he is "attempting" to do that by inviting a few of the GOP to dinner tonight... but how do you negotiate and compromise something the size of our budget, deficit and debt over one dinner? The truth is, he has had very little "negotiating contact" with Republican or Democrat members of the House and Senate. If he offered up a "budget" for the members to consider, like he said, why didn't at least the majority Senate Democrats rule and pass it?
He did that with Boehner and it got him nowhere. He's concluded that the only way to deal with the do-nothing reps is to appeal to the people and hope they will pressure the reps to compromise.
Can you show how often Obama has sat down with congressanal committees, to hammer out problems?

Here is an example of his efforts:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/18/obama-jobs-council_n_1684221.html

He's too busy campaigning, after campaigning is over. No time to LEAD when there's campaigning to do.
He has met with them a number of times, but the meetings haven't produced anything concrete. I think he's decided to leave it to the 2014 elections and see how it turns out.
CAN YOU SHOW HOW OFTEN.... something besides "he met with them several times." How often in four years?
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Banandangees
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But you are right about him waiting until the 2014 elections.... that's the purpose of his constant blaming the Republicans for everything, the pending "sky is falling" campaigning from state to state (instead of doing what Christie would do - get them in a room and happer it out for the benefit of the nation), ... he wants the House so he can force his far left agenda on the nation. That is and has been his focus since day one, now it's ALL OUT, full steam ahead GOP bashing. The majority thinks spending is out of control now.... what 'till Obama gets the House. Until then, nothing will happen... nothing. And he does it all for the benefit of the nation :bounce: Yeah, right.

We'll probably end up just like Venezuela by the time he's through.
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Deleted User
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Um, the US and Venezuela did not like each other. So we get links from the US slamming Venezuela. That makes them suspect.

I don't think anyone is saying that Chavez was a great guy, certainly not form a US perspective, but his elections appeared fair, certainly by Latin American standards and possibly even US standards. His overall popularity with Venzuelans was certainly not in doubt. As I have pointed out before the US government has a record of actually supporting far worse, so one has to wonder what their standard of morality is when it come to supporting or opposing of foreign governments. It certainly is not democracy.
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Berton
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telcoman
Mar 7 2013, 10:01 PM
Um, the US and Venezuela did not like each other. So we get links from the US slamming Venezuela. That makes them suspect.

I don't think anyone is saying that Chavez was a great guy, certainly not form a US perspective, but his elections appeared fair, certainly by Latin American standards and possibly even US standards. His overall popularity with Venzuelans was certainly not in doubt. As I have pointed out before the US government has a record of actually supporting far worse, so one has to wonder what their standard of morality is when it come to supporting or opposing of foreign governments. It certainly is not democracy.
Quote:
 
While opposition candidate Henrique Capriles recognized his loss, it would be a mistake to interpret the election result as an accurate reflection of public sentiment. That’s because Chávez rigged the election process so firmly against any challenger that it’s astounding the opposition did so well (it got about 45 percent of the vote). Ask yourself this: If the following occurred in your country—as did in Venezuela—would you consider the outcome acceptable? This is some of what the opposition faced in its campaign:

•The government disqualified leading opposition candidates on technicalities and through legal prosecution.

•Chávez used unlimited state resources to explicitly engage in his re-election campaign. For example, state television stations broadcast pro-Chávez propaganda, and government buildings display as much too.

•Capriles was limited to media appearances of three minutes per day, while Chávez appeared for hours at a time on all television stations as required by law.

•The voter registry included irregularities or was at least questionable. From 2003 to 2012 the number of voters registered increased from about 12 million to almost 19 million even though the population grew by only a few million during that time. 14 of 24 states in Venezuela have more registered voters than those eligible to vote. There are thousands of registered voters between the ages of 111 and 129.

•Voting ballots were printed in such a way that many people who thought they were voting for Capriles had their votes counted as being cast for a third candidate.

•Government spending increased by 30% over the past year; 8 million people are directly dependent in some way on government for their income or to receive handouts.

•Chávez closed the consulate in Miami, home to thousands of likely Capriles supporters, forcing them to vote at the consulate in New Orleans or become disenfranchised.

•The government intimidated voters, including government employees, by insinuating that their votes will not be secret.


You may think that is the norm, perhaps it is in Canada, but I hardly think it is in the US.

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Mountainrivers
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Banandangees
Mar 7 2013, 09:52 PM
Mountainrivers
Mar 7 2013, 09:44 PM
Banandangees
Mar 7 2013, 09:31 PM
Mountainrivers
Mar 7 2013, 08:40 PM
Banandangees
Mar 7 2013, 07:39 AM
Mountainrivers
Mar 7 2013, 05:36 AM
Banandangees
Mar 7 2013, 05:28 AM
He won't stay off the air. Everywhere you turn, NBC, CBS, ABC, MSNBC, CNN.... everywhere... there he is, prophesying disaster if'n he doesn't get his way. Scaring the pants off his followers and how much they stand to lose. Chasm building. Busy, busy, busy... if only he'd get the senators (both parties) and Congress (both parties) in for a "sit down." and don't come out until the fiscal mess is straightened out. Lead for a change... that would be refreshing. Lead instead of dividing.
He's done exactly that, Ban and the reps have refused to cooperate every time. Why should he continue to make himself look foolish?
You don't negotiate and compromise through campaigning from state to state, you sit down in a room (like Christie said) with members from both parties and negotiate there, and compromise there. Maybe he is "attempting" to do that by inviting a few of the GOP to dinner tonight... but how do you negotiate and compromise something the size of our budget, deficit and debt over one dinner? The truth is, he has had very little "negotiating contact" with Republican or Democrat members of the House and Senate. If he offered up a "budget" for the members to consider, like he said, why didn't at least the majority Senate Democrats rule and pass it?
He did that with Boehner and it got him nowhere. He's concluded that the only way to deal with the do-nothing reps is to appeal to the people and hope they will pressure the reps to compromise.
Can you show how often Obama has sat down with congressanal committees, to hammer out problems?

Here is an example of his efforts:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/18/obama-jobs-council_n_1684221.html

He's too busy campaigning, after campaigning is over. No time to LEAD when there's campaigning to do.
He has met with them a number of times, but the meetings haven't produced anything concrete. I think he's decided to leave it to the 2014 elections and see how it turns out.
CAN YOU SHOW HOW OFTEN.... something besides "he met with them several times." How often in four years?
If you really want to know, Ban. Look it up. I'm not going to do your research for you.
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Berton
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Mountainrivers
Mar 7 2013, 10:19 PM
Banandangees
Mar 7 2013, 09:52 PM
Mountainrivers
Mar 7 2013, 09:44 PM
Banandangees
Mar 7 2013, 09:31 PM
Mountainrivers
Mar 7 2013, 08:40 PM
Banandangees
Mar 7 2013, 07:39 AM
Mountainrivers
Mar 7 2013, 05:36 AM
Banandangees
Mar 7 2013, 05:28 AM
He won't stay off the air. Everywhere you turn, NBC, CBS, ABC, MSNBC, CNN.... everywhere... there he is, prophesying disaster if'n he doesn't get his way. Scaring the pants off his followers and how much they stand to lose. Chasm building. Busy, busy, busy... if only he'd get the senators (both parties) and Congress (both parties) in for a "sit down." and don't come out until the fiscal mess is straightened out. Lead for a change... that would be refreshing. Lead instead of dividing.
He's done exactly that, Ban and the reps have refused to cooperate every time. Why should he continue to make himself look foolish?
You don't negotiate and compromise through campaigning from state to state, you sit down in a room (like Christie said) with members from both parties and negotiate there, and compromise there. Maybe he is "attempting" to do that by inviting a few of the GOP to dinner tonight... but how do you negotiate and compromise something the size of our budget, deficit and debt over one dinner? The truth is, he has had very little "negotiating contact" with Republican or Democrat members of the House and Senate. If he offered up a "budget" for the members to consider, like he said, why didn't at least the majority Senate Democrats rule and pass it?
He did that with Boehner and it got him nowhere. He's concluded that the only way to deal with the do-nothing reps is to appeal to the people and hope they will pressure the reps to compromise.
Can you show how often Obama has sat down with congressanal committees, to hammer out problems?

Here is an example of his efforts:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/18/obama-jobs-council_n_1684221.html

He's too busy campaigning, after campaigning is over. No time to LEAD when there's campaigning to do.
He has met with them a number of times, but the meetings haven't produced anything concrete. I think he's decided to leave it to the 2014 elections and see how it turns out.
CAN YOU SHOW HOW OFTEN.... something besides "he met with them several times." How often in four years?
If you really want to know, Ban. Look it up. I'm not going to do your research for you.

And your answer to someone who tells you to do your own research is normally what?

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Mountainrivers
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Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
[ * ]
Banandangees
Mar 7 2013, 10:00 PM
But you are right about him waiting until the 2014 elections.... that's the purpose of his constant blaming the Republicans for everything, the pending "sky is falling" campaigning from state to state (instead of doing what Christie would do - get them in a room and happer it out for the benefit of the nation), ... he wants the House so he can force his far left agenda on the nation. That is and has been his focus since day one, now it's ALL OUT, full steam ahead GOP bashing. The majority thinks spending is out of control now.... what 'till Obama gets the House. Until then, nothing will happen... nothing. And he does it all for the benefit of the nation :bounce: Yeah, right.

We'll probably end up just like Venezuela by the time he's through.
You continue to ignore the deal he made with Boehner and which reps rejected out of hand. It's time you stopped drinking the Faux News kool-aid and look at the other side of issues.
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Mountainrivers
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Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
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Berton
Mar 7 2013, 10:21 PM
Mountainrivers
Mar 7 2013, 10:19 PM
Banandangees
Mar 7 2013, 09:52 PM
Mountainrivers
Mar 7 2013, 09:44 PM
Banandangees
Mar 7 2013, 09:31 PM
Mountainrivers
Mar 7 2013, 08:40 PM
Banandangees
Mar 7 2013, 07:39 AM
Mountainrivers
Mar 7 2013, 05:36 AM
Banandangees
Mar 7 2013, 05:28 AM
He won't stay off the air. Everywhere you turn, NBC, CBS, ABC, MSNBC, CNN.... everywhere... there he is, prophesying disaster if'n he doesn't get his way. Scaring the pants off his followers and how much they stand to lose. Chasm building. Busy, busy, busy... if only he'd get the senators (both parties) and Congress (both parties) in for a "sit down." and don't come out until the fiscal mess is straightened out. Lead for a change... that would be refreshing. Lead instead of dividing.
He's done exactly that, Ban and the reps have refused to cooperate every time. Why should he continue to make himself look foolish?
You don't negotiate and compromise through campaigning from state to state, you sit down in a room (like Christie said) with members from both parties and negotiate there, and compromise there. Maybe he is "attempting" to do that by inviting a few of the GOP to dinner tonight... but how do you negotiate and compromise something the size of our budget, deficit and debt over one dinner? The truth is, he has had very little "negotiating contact" with Republican or Democrat members of the House and Senate. If he offered up a "budget" for the members to consider, like he said, why didn't at least the majority Senate Democrats rule and pass it?
He did that with Boehner and it got him nowhere. He's concluded that the only way to deal with the do-nothing reps is to appeal to the people and hope they will pressure the reps to compromise.
Can you show how often Obama has sat down with congressanal committees, to hammer out problems?

Here is an example of his efforts:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/18/obama-jobs-council_n_1684221.html

He's too busy campaigning, after campaigning is over. No time to LEAD when there's campaigning to do.
He has met with them a number of times, but the meetings haven't produced anything concrete. I think he's decided to leave it to the 2014 elections and see how it turns out.
CAN YOU SHOW HOW OFTEN.... something besides "he met with them several times." How often in four years?
If you really want to know, Ban. Look it up. I'm not going to do your research for you.

And your answer to someone who tells you to do your own research is normally what?

If I really want to know, I do the research. What do you do, besides copy and paste right wing nonsense?
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