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Obama Invited Terror Suspects To Visit White House
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Topic Started: Oct 24 2012, 03:38 AM (1,121 Views)
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MrsS
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Oct 24 2012, 10:29 PM
Post #11
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- Banandangees
- Oct 24 2012, 05:38 AM
"Why not look at it in a different way?"
Okay. According to President Obama during the debate last night, expressing his leadership roll in the middle east, said that he made sure that Libyans revolting against Gaddafi had the weapons and the military support to defeat the man who had more American blood on his hands other the OBL......................Would you call the effort an "in the name of stability" for the middle east effort? Was it needed and necessary? Or, was it a "terrorism-breeding" effort".... but still needed and necessary? Or would it have been a less "terrorism-breeding" effort if the UN, NATO and the US had stayed out of it..... as the above are staying (to any significance) out of it (addendum) in Syria. Banan, I hope it`s okay that I deleted some of the words in your quote. I did it only to make it shorter....for easier reading - not because I didn`t
like the words!!
Prior to answering your question(s), here`s my very personal attitude: Don`t intervene.....let them fight their own fight, because you never know if those you support will not turn against you one day. Just think of the Taliban, you`ve supported them against Russia in Afghanistan.....and we all know what happened years later!
The present situation in Lybia`s different in my opinion than your military presence in Egypt was ( or maybe still is ). In Lybia you support people looking for freedom - in Egypt it was seen as a one-sided support for the safety of Israel.....to the disadvantage of Palestine.
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MrsS
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Oct 24 2012, 10:44 PM
Post #12
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- Berton
- Oct 24 2012, 06:25 AM
Sorry but these facts can not be explained away.
From my link:
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CAIRO — Perhaps the most radical change in U.S. foreign policy under President Obama has occurred here in Egypt, where the Muslim Brotherhood, long shunned as a collection of dangerous Islamist extremists, is now the de facto object of American support. Not only that: Ultraconservative Salafist politicians, who make the Brotherhood seem like moderate pragmatists, are now regular visitors to the U.S. Embassy and, on the theory that it is better to have them inside the tent than out, they are able to visit the United States to learn how things work in the land of Jeffersonian democracy.
Of course, the new American thinking goes, agreement will never be possible with these Salafis on women’s rights, for example, but this does not mean that they cannot have a mutually beneficial relationship with the West or evolve. Every Salafi in Parliament is one less potential jihadist.
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Berton
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Oct 24 2012, 10:46 PM
Post #13
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- MrsS
- Oct 24 2012, 10:44 PM
- Berton
- Oct 24 2012, 06:25 AM
Sorry but these facts can not be explained away.
From my link: - Quote:
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CAIRO — Perhaps the most radical change in U.S. foreign policy under President Obama has occurred here in Egypt, where the Muslim Brotherhood, long shunned as a collection of dangerous Islamist extremists, is now the de facto object of American support. Not only that: Ultraconservative Salafist politicians, who make the Brotherhood seem like moderate pragmatists, are now regular visitors to the U.S. Embassy and, on the theory that it is better to have them inside the tent than out, they are able to visit the United States to learn how things work in the land of Jeffersonian democracy.
Of course, the new American thinking goes, agreement will never be possible with these Salafis on women’s rights, for example, but this does not mean that they cannot have a mutually beneficial relationship with the West or evolve. Every Salafi in Parliament is one less potential jihadist.
Do you really think they learned how Jeffersonian democracy works? Do you really think they care?

Edited by Berton, Oct 25 2012, 12:33 AM.
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MrsS
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Oct 25 2012, 01:14 AM
Post #14
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Who knows?
Your and my ancestors managed to leave behind inquisition, burning of witches and more nice events of the Dark Ages.....
Edited by MrsS, Oct 25 2012, 01:15 AM.
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Banandangees
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Oct 25 2012, 01:15 AM
Post #15
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Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
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- MrsS
- Oct 24 2012, 10:29 PM
- Banandangees
- Oct 24 2012, 05:38 AM
"Why not look at it in a different way?"
Okay. According to President Obama during the debate last night, expressing his leadership roll in the middle east, said that he made sure that Libyans revolting against Gaddafi had the weapons and the military support to defeat the man who had more American blood on his hands other the OBL......................Would you call the effort an "in the name of stability" for the middle east effort? Was it needed and necessary? Or, was it a "terrorism-breeding" effort".... but still needed and necessary? Or would it have been a less "terrorism-breeding" effort if the UN, NATO and the US had stayed out of it..... as the above are staying (to any significance) out of it (addendum) in Syria. Banan, I hope it`s okay that I deleted some of the words in your quote. I did it only to make it shorter....for easier reading - not because I didn`t like the words!! Prior to answering your question(s), here`s my very personal attitude: Don`t intervene.....let them fight their own fight, because you never know if those you support will not turn against you one day. Just think of the Taliban, you`ve supported them against Russia in Afghanistan.....and we all know what happened years later! The present situation in Lybia`s different in my opinion than your military presence in Egypt was ( or maybe still is ). In Lybia you support people looking for freedom - in Egypt it was seen as a one-sided support for the safety of Israel.....to the disadvantage of Palestine. Then you would agree to NATO forces doing the same for Syria?
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MrsS
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Oct 25 2012, 01:17 AM
Post #16
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If it has to be..........*sigh*.......then yes.
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Banandangees
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Oct 25 2012, 02:11 AM
Post #17
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Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
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- MrsS
- Oct 25 2012, 01:17 AM
If it has to be..........*sigh*.......then yes.
Will Germany (being a NATO member) be helping this time?
Also to be considered, Maybe Russia has a point to be considered as they had their exhausting difficulties in Afghanistan:
Russians Say Anti-US Attack in Libya Vindicates Their Position By ELLEN BARRY Published: September 12, 2012
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MOSCOW — Upon learning of the violent death of the United States ambassador to Libya on Wednesday, many Russians responded with variations on “I told you so.”
Russia has long argued that the West should not support popular uprisings against dictatorships in the Middle East lest Islamic fundamentalism take hold. Vladimir V. Putin, then serving as prime minister, was especially enraged last fall after an angry crowd killed his ally, Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi, an event he later condemned as a “repulsive, disgusting” scene.
Since then, Russia has blocked Western initiatives to force Syria’s president, Bashar al-Assad, from power despite a bloody crackdown on the opposition. Russians’ responses to the storming of the American Consulate in Benghazi underlined the deep policy divide. A prime-time news report pointedly juxtaposed images of Ambassador J. Christopher Stevens’s death with Colonel Qaddafi’s, pointing at their similarities, then cut to footage of Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton reacting to the Libyan leader’s death with a cursory “wow.”
Mikhail V. Margelov, chairman of the foreign affairs committee in the upper house of Russia’s Parliament, said that passions had been stoked by the uprisings and that they “splash out in the form of terrorist acts or massacres of nonbelievers or an attack on embassies and consulates.”
“The frequency of these outbursts, unfortunately, has been growing since the ‘Arab Spring’ brought to power political groups of Islamic orientation, either open or indirect,” Mr. Margelov said, in comments to the Interfax news agency. A telegram from Foreign Minister Sergey V. Lavrov to Mrs. Clinton condemned the attack as a crime, and said “it confirms once again the necessity of combining the forces of our countries and the whole international community to fight with the evil of terrorism.”
The Arab Spring May Backfire on he US
September 18, 2012 Anna Analbayeva, Vzglyad
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....Nevertheless, the wave of anti-Americanism in the Middle East is hardly likely to change the mind of American politicians, the Middle East Institute President Yevgeny Satanovsky argues.
Vzglyad: Will the State Department conduct an analysis of the events? Are Hillary Clinton and her colleagues ready to admit that it was imprudent to support the rebels a year ago?
Yevgeny Satanovsky: No, that is out of the question. To start analyzing mistakes, one has to be self-critical and be able to look at oneself from outside. This does not apply to many people in modern American politics.
Vzglyad: Why is unrest spilling over into more and more Arab states? Where else might an outburst of anti-American sentiment be expected?
Y.S.: An outburst of anti-American sentiment can be expected wherever governments are not in control. Anti-Americanism runs high and, traditionally, this is the way local populations express their feelings.
The countries in question do not have a strong centralized party that can control the situation. Current conditions are the same as when the Persians killed [Russian Ambassador to Persia Aleksandr] Griboyedov in the early 19th century.
Apparently the Russians aren't agreeing that present US policy is doing much healing of Arab resentment.
Also, Europe is not without it's influence in Arab dictatorship:
What Europe Should Tell Mohammed Morsi
By Elijah Zarwan & Issandr El Amrani September 13, 2012
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The inaugural European trip of Egypt’s first democratically elected president, Mohammed Morsi, should be an occasion for reflection. The relationship between Europe and Egypt is one complicated by colonial history, silence on and even complicity with many of the abuses conducted by Hosni Mubarak’s regime, unease at the rise of Islamists as a dominant political power, as well as many binding cultural, economic and political ties. Mr Morsi’s visit is thus an occasion to clear the air and reset the relationship.
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MrsS
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Oct 25 2012, 04:17 AM
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Will Germany (being a NATO member) be helping this time?
I don`t know, but if it`s a NATO operation, don`t all member-states participate?
Basically, I have a fierce distaste for any kind of war....my dad and my uncles fought in Russia, my mom and my sister, along with other female family members, were expelled from the Sudetenland and I remember the stories they told about those war-times..... Of course they were told that it`s a just war and of course Germany would win and of course there would be no suffering.
War? No,thank you! ( A personal and maybe not rational emotion..........)
Edited by MrsS, Oct 25 2012, 04:18 AM.
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Berton
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Oct 25 2012, 04:24 AM
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No, at least they have not always done so in the past.
BTW - While neither I nor my family had the kind of experiences yours did I also dislike war. But I am also realistic enough to know that it will be necessary from time to time and that to not be prepared for it only adds to the misery and deaths.
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tomdrobin
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Oct 25 2012, 04:45 AM
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Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
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This sounds like preposterous accusations fabricated for right wing loonie consumption. Post from a credible source and it might get some serious discussion.
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