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| Fuel Progression for Transportation; Dino Oil, CNG, Four Carbon Ethanols | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Feb 26 2012, 08:32 PM (779 Views) | |
| Corky52 | Feb 26 2012, 08:32 PM Post #1 |
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Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
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Short term thinking is killing the U.S., twenty years is the minimum we need to be looking down the road. Long term renewable energy from solar, wind, tidal and wave action, use of hydrogen as a storage medium, and the cooking of cellulose base four carbon ethanols for liquid transportation fuels is currently doable and practical, no new tech is needed. Short term, three to five years, move to CNG for as much as possible and kill the use of Dino oil for fuels, better uses for it.
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| Stoney | Feb 26 2012, 09:36 PM Post #2 |
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Your solutions are all theoretical at best. We've been trying to integrate "alternative energy" for twice your long term planning term and still have less than 5% to show for it. You've got it backwards. We don't cripple our economy on a hope and a wish. We have to find something that works first. None of your solutions currently works. CNG is being used in buses at least in DC. I don't know why its not more widespread for that use. Buts its too dense for small vehicles and lacks enough power (and is too dense) to power 80,000lb vehicles. There's enough CNG on the market that we might see an expansion for mobile fuels. |
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| Corky52 | Feb 26 2012, 09:48 PM Post #3 |
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Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
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Stoney, Stand back and watch, you'll just wish you had invested. Nothing theoretical in what I'm talking about, all proved tech, just need to make long-term investment to build system. I have five Honda Civics and a Chevy truck all running on CNG already, all run very normally, even use the Civics to tow small work trailers. CNG being a gas is not the ideal solution, but it is a viable stopgap. I've also run my MH on four carbon ethanol fuel, bought as racing fuel, $8 a gallon, as a test. The racing fuel ran great and the exhaust was really clean. I don't deal in theory, hard to make money that way. Practical answers, just need time and investment to setup, U.S. is the best place in the world to do that, will happen here first, only question is how long we sit on our asses and send money to the Arabs.
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| Stoney | Feb 26 2012, 09:59 PM Post #4 |
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If more people thought like you there would be more investment and more accessibility. I hope you're right. But we can't cut off a sure thing on the hope that what you suggest will fill the void. I've been all for biofuels, but haven't seen anything evolve that works. Its the best solution to me because our current distribution system will accommodate biofuels. We've wasted years of corn based supplements to fuel because government still doesn't understand its not working. Everyone's laughing at Obama's reference to algae. I've been reading about it for a couple of years and hope its going show some promise. But so far its just a hope. |
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| Corky52 | Feb 26 2012, 10:09 PM Post #5 |
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Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
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Stoney, Check the four carbon ethanols from cellulose base, 95% of energy of gasoline and full carbon recycle. Trick is pulling everything together, will happen down in the southwest first, cheap land, bad water, lots of sun and no people around to cause problems. Longterm money is needed, once system is build most of the raw materials are nearly free, break-even is about five years from startup.
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| Mountainrivers | Feb 26 2012, 10:15 PM Post #6 |
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Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
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I don't want to argue with you Corky. Just looking for information. Where will the raw materials come from? |
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| Stoney | Feb 26 2012, 10:18 PM Post #7 |
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Daily Finance The problem with following these technologies is the same as it is with following big oil. The people who talk about them are invested in them and what they say needs to be taken with some healthy skepticism. Again, we can't throw out oil until we have a proven alternative. |
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| Corky52 | Feb 26 2012, 10:20 PM Post #8 |
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Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
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MR, Raw materials are sunshine, bad water and air. Good water can be used but then you lose the extra benefit of mineral recovery from the leftovers, also grows algae slower. Much ground water in the southwest is unusable for most things, great for some algae and sludge concentrates the minerals for recovery. Nice closed system, even uses the hooves! |
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| Mountainrivers | Feb 26 2012, 10:23 PM Post #9 |
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Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
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I thought the four carbon ethanols were produced from biomass. Is that incorrect? |
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| Corky52 | Feb 26 2012, 10:25 PM Post #10 |
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Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
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Stoney, I'm not throwing oil out, just cutting all the support it receives and then letting it die a natural death. If a small plant using costly raw materials and energy can make a nice profit selling at $8 a gallon, then what can an integrated system do with cheap energy and cheap raw materials do? Six month visionaries are killing us.
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