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Oligarchy; Small Groups of Multi Millionaires Funding Super Pacs
Topic Started: Feb 25 2012, 11:04 PM (1,878 Views)
Chris
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Pat
Feb 26 2012, 12:50 AM
:hystery: :hystery: :hystery: :hystery:

This topic qualifies for four emoticons.

Let's view this rationally guys and I'll give an example to get across my point. Let's say Colo were a billionaire, and decided to jump in and back Mitt Romney to the tune of $50 mil. So Mitt out spends the republican field by say 20-1 in ads and appearances. Whose fault is it if after hearing the debates, reading the campaign material, and hearing Mitt speak, if the voter were charmed into believing Mitt was a conservative?

By ending a person's right to form a PAC and promote a candidate, does that in some way solve the stupidity quotient of voters? Is it the role of government to defend free speech, or does the constitutional and Bill of Rights get set aside for the purpose of protecting people from the guy on the soapbox having his say?

Courts have ruled that liars and their lies are protected under the free speech provisions. Is it right to limit the free speech of rich guys because potential voters refuse to do their homework in deciding who to vote for? Is that the role of government?
Good point, and what I'm trying to get at. Just because your hypothetical crawdad has economic power, he has no coercive power over the voter, who, if dumb enough to believe Romney conservative, or any other unprincipled party tripe, has only himself to blame for his choices.

Perhaps tom will get it now.
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Chris
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Brewster
Feb 26 2012, 01:04 AM
Pat, you seem to be labouring undr the misapprehension that the US is still a democracy.

When the right of free speech for all is drowned out by the dollar-fuelled PAC machines overwheming the little guy, your precious Constitutional guarantees have already been set aside.
Never was a democracy, brewster, as you liberals keep repeating. See the Constitution, states, republic.

Free speech is unalienable.


"your precious Constitutional guarantees have already been set aside"

Like most liberals you just don't get that the Constitution limits government, not the people, it guarantees protections against government intervention into our rights--not that your precious government ever heeds those limitations.
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Pat
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Brew, the easy way out of most perceived problems is to deny freedom and liberty. And the authorities all claim it is for our own good. Our freedom and personal liberty is dependent on our bill of Rights and Constitution, in the same manner our bodies depend upon food, oxygen and water. Without it, turn out the lights the party is over. Once the floodgates are unleashed, it's too late to turn back. Freedom and liberty are ideals that it takes rivers of blood to gain. Lazy people basking under the republic's constitution and BOR should never expect us to give up so they can be coddled. I would rather you put a bullet in the brain of all those who suggest we water down freedom of speech. That's how strong I feel about this.
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Brewster
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So why are you so willing to sell it all away to the rich?

I consider it the most important freedom of all in any democracy, and to watch the Billionaires gradually buy up / overwhelm every media channel is truly frightening

The rich have taken over or at least dominate virtually all media - the little guy's freedom of speech on the national level is all but gone. Give Murdoch & Co. another 5 years and it will be.
Edited by Brewster, Feb 26 2012, 02:03 AM.
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Chris
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We're not a democracy, Brewster, perhaps CA is, the US is not.

I suggest you abandon push media and seek pull media. Freedom of speech is alive and well, thank you.
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Pat
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Any perceived injustice or upper hand will come and go Brew. Eventually even the uninformed and dumb ones among us get the tag line of a joke. Just when it looks like the baby should be thrown out with the bath water, our constitution and Bill of Rights rides to the rescue. That's how foundations are supposed to work, to withstand even the strongest of earthquakes.
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Jim Miller
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Brew, you seem to be laboring under the misapprehension that the US is your business. Who are you going to vote for?
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Brewster
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My vote counts just as much as yours, Jim.
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Jim Miller
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Hell, your opinion doesn't even count for anything. You still didn't tell me who you are going to vote for.
Edited by Jim Miller, Feb 26 2012, 04:22 AM.
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Brewster
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Pat
Feb 26 2012, 02:19 AM
Any perceived injustice or upper hand will come and go Brew. Eventually even the uninformed and dumb ones among us get the tag line of a joke. Just when it looks like the baby should be thrown out with the bath water, our constitution and Bill of Rights rides to the rescue. That's how foundations are supposed to work, to withstand even the strongest of earthquakes.
That's what the Jews said in Germany just before Kristallnacht.
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