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HALF of Americans don't pay income tax despite crippling government debt
Topic Started: Feb 23 2012, 08:51 PM (1,549 Views)
Mountainrivers
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Pat
Feb 24 2012, 04:38 AM
Mountainrivers
Feb 24 2012, 03:00 AM
Pat
Feb 24 2012, 02:58 AM
Brewster
Feb 24 2012, 02:33 AM
Pat
Feb 24 2012, 02:22 AM
Brewster
Feb 24 2012, 01:19 AM
So in other words, you have no answer.

I ask you what makes Income Tax more painful than any other, and you give me a philosophical discussion about bridges.

All taxes are equally painful. And the poor and middle class pay a higher percentage of all other taxes than the rich. In fact, the total tax burden on the middle class relative to their income is almost double the others.

The rich are crossing the bridge almost for free.

The "50%" meme is just a talking point to prolong the war on the middle class.

Q. E. D.
No, Brew, I gave you the answer but your liberal side won't accept it. There is nothing wrong with ignoring the truth in this matter, our own Congress and local governments have for decades. But the truth is what it is. :smile:
Pat, you did not explain at all. The answer is not a liberal/conservative thing. And avoiding the question is not telling the truth.

Simple Question: How is paying Income Tax more painful than the others?

Until you can explain that, a tax is a tax, and the rich are avoiding their share.

(Actually, they are anyway, but we'll deal with than next.)
Not only did I answer it Brew, but if you have read past posts of mine surrounding this topic where I went into even more detail than here, you would understand why the policy of allowing 50% of wage earners off the hook of federal income tax is wrong. I'm convinced it is your total embrace of social democracy solutions in life as the reason you Brew, not only won't accept the blunt truth, but now argue that I even answered your question. Listen up Brew, I'm not going to answer the questions in the manner you like, which emboldens your socialist leanings. And I doubt any of those on the right you have asked will either. I have fundamental beliefs that reject socialism and social democracy. I believe we should all share the burden of governance in the areas needing financial support.
Closed mind!
Maybe my rational thought is appearing to be closed minded Neal, by those who have not explored the matter as I have. I don't find it reasonable to accept what I believe to be a distortion or and subversion of the very foundation we as a people come from. What I mean by this is the foundation set forth by the founding fathers and enshrined in the constitution. I think my views reflect an open mindless to what matters. I still embrace and hold dear the traits of rugged individualism that I believe represents they meddle of our ancestors. People that had values of self sufficiency and who still knew how to dream big for themselves and their community. And even though I must begrudgingly admit that much of this was lost when a bunch of early 20th century Americans abandoned these traits, and embraced lives of dependency and stasis. And abandoned dreams as they accepted the death of the American spirit within them. I still refuse to surrender Neal. And I still live a life of dreams.

I don't believe I'm closed minded Neal, (but you may), when I believe the constitution defends my right to dream and aspire and the government that sprang from the constitution has two purposes. Defending my liberty and formulating laws that protect my property rights from those who attack the same, be it of foreign or internal origin. And I believe Neal, and don't consider myself closed minded, when I reject socialism and all attempts to co-opt the above in a plot, designed to instill socialism and it's attendant dependency.in it's stead.

Our government wasn't founded Neal, to guarantee the residents of this country a free ride. In fact Neal, the government exists for the very limited role I have noted. All else we see here played out before us in society, are the results of people abridging original intent. And I absolutely refuse to go along with this game. We need to fund the government for it;s purpose. And all of us need to do so.
You refer to your "rational" thought as if it's sacrosanct and nobody else's "rational" thought is valid. How do you know that I haven't explored the matter as much or more than you have? You have your interpretation of what the founding fathers intended and others disagree with that.

"I still embrace and hold dear the traits of rugged individualism that I believe represents they meddle of our ancestors. There was certainly an amount of rugged individualism, but none of those people you refer to could done what they did alone. Why do you suppose the pioneers organized into wagon trains instead of just setting out on their own. Why didn't those folks who came here from Europe and other places, just build themselves a boat and use that to come over?

"I still refuse to surrender Neal. And I still live a life of dreams."

Well yes, we know you live in a dream world. Fantasyland, perhaps.

"And I believe Neal, and don't consider myself closed minded, when I reject socialism and all attempts to co-opt the above in a plot, designed to instill socialism and it's attendant dependency.in it's stead. "

No, that's paranoia and insanity. Nobody is suggesting Socialism, so that's a moot point.

"Our government wasn't founded Neal, to guarantee the residents of this country a free ride. In fact Neal, the government exists for the very limited role I have noted"

So say you, but I believe the founders had a much more active role for the government in mind than you do.

"And I absolutely refuse to go along with this game."

Well, no, you have to abide by the rules like everyone else.
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colo_crawdad
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Pat,

I have NEVER viewed any credible evidence that claimed that 50% of the "wage earners" in this country pay no Federal income tax. What you have posted in the past dealt with "households" and even that was questionable given the number of households that have no "wage earners" within because of retirement, etc.
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Chris
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"You refer to your "rational" thought as if it's sacrosanct and nobody else's "rational" thought is valid."

I don't see where he said or implied that.

Being rational just means, rather than using emotion, you're using facts and logic, and expect others to as well. Being rational doesn't make one right, right wing, perhaps, lol, but not right. Actually being emotional doesn't mean you're wrong, left wing, perhaps, lolol, only that you haven't explained your point rationally.
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Stoney
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Brewster
Feb 23 2012, 09:56 PM
Still waiting for someone on the US Right to explain why paying income tax is so much more painful than paying any other tax.

Lower middle class, who pay little or no income tax, pay much higher percent tax than the very rich.
"Lower middle class, who pay little or no income tax, pay much higher percent tax than the very rich."

That's still not true.
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Banandangees
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We know that those 49% who pay no income tax pay other taxes. And, I'm not saying income taxes shouldn't be raised. Everybody pays "other taxes," sales tax, gasoline tax, SS tax (if they have a jobe that requires it). But I believe that everybody should contibute something, even if it's $10.00, even those on welfare. Something for living in this great land, that our fair share of people died to keep great. Some. Nobody who's physically and mentally able to get out of bed should contribute something. Time and effort if nothing else. Just MHO.
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Stoney
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The 49.5% need to pull their load.
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Mountainrivers
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Chris
Feb 24 2012, 05:36 AM
"You refer to your "rational" thought as if it's sacrosanct and nobody else's "rational" thought is valid."

I don't see where he said or implied that.

Being rational just means, rather than using emotion, you're using facts and logic, and expect others to as well. Being rational doesn't make one right, right wing, perhaps, lol, but not right. Actually being emotional doesn't mean you're wrong, left wing, perhaps, lolol, only that you haven't explained your point rationally.
""You refer to your "rational" thought as if it's sacrosanct and nobody else's "rational" thought is valid."

I don't see where he said or implied that."

I didn't think you would.

But, Pat doesn't even claim to use anything other than his wrong opinions based on nothing but his wrong opinions.
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Mountainrivers
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Banandangees
Feb 24 2012, 06:22 AM
We know that those 49% who pay no income tax pay other taxes. And, I'm not saying income taxes shouldn't be raised. Everybody pays "other taxes," sales tax, gasoline tax, SS tax (if they have a jobe that requires it). But I believe that everybody should contibute something, even if it's $10.00, even those on welfare. Something for living in this great land, that our fair share of people died to keep great. Some. Nobody who's physically and mentally able to get out of bed should contribute something. Time and effort if nothing else. Just MHO.
Geesh, Ban, if every one of those households paid in $10 it would only amount to 500 million dollars. That would do the country no good and it would be a huge burden on people who have next to no income. I hear that argument on Fox fairly often, so I have to assume you get your argument from Fox. Why would you choose to punish people who have nothing.
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Brewster
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Quote:
 
Listen up Brew, I'm not going to answer the questions in the manner you like, which emboldens your socialist leanings. And I doubt any of those on the right you have asked will either. I have fundamental beliefs that reject socialism and social democracy. I believe we should all share the burden of governance in the areas needing financial support.
Not only did you not answer the question in the manner I like, you didn't answer it at all. The question has nothing to do with socialism, or any other kind of "ism". I made no value judgements on who should pay what, or to whom.

I simply asked why paying Income Tax is more painful than paying any other - Sales Tax for instance.

And instead of an answer, I get accused of "Socialism".

Let me ask a different question then: If "we should all share the burden of governance in the areas needing financial support", which I would agree with, why do you think it's OK that that any group should pay any smaller Payroll Tax percentage than any other?

Why pick on Income Tax? None of them seem to be shared as you wish.
Edited by Brewster, Feb 24 2012, 07:45 AM.
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Banandangees
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Mountainrivers
Feb 24 2012, 06:31 AM
Geesh, Ban, if every one of those households paid in $10 it would only amount to 500 million dollars. That would do the country no good and it would be a huge burden on people who have next to no income. I hear that argument on Fox fairly often, so I have to assume you get your argument from Fox. Why would you choose to punish people who have nothing.
Okay, make it $100. It's something. Make's everyong feel that they've contributed part of their take in.
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