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HALF of Americans don't pay income tax despite crippling government debt
Topic Started: Feb 23 2012, 08:51 PM (1,550 Views)
Chris
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Pat
Feb 24 2012, 01:08 AM
Brewster
Feb 24 2012, 12:58 AM
Pat
Feb 24 2012, 12:48 AM
OK Brew, I get tired of having to educate the left. Ask the question and I'll answer you.
Here we go again;

Pat, the right continues the idiotic meme that "50% of the population does not pay income Tax", implying that they're a bunch of deadbeats not paying their share. But in fact, as I have shown repeatedly, the poor and lower middle class, who seem to be the ones they're pointing to, actually pay a HIGHER percent of their income in taxes. They're just not paying Income Tax, which is only one of many.

So the question is, what difference does it make what tax you pay? How is paying Income Tax any more painful than any other tax? And why does paying payroll tax mean you're not contributing?
So you want to know what difference it makes? Let me use an analogy Brew. We all live on one side of a raging river. All the food and drinking water is on the opposite side of the river, and to get there, we have a special bridge. The bridge is strong, but not strong enough to carry us all their each way without some repairs needing done. So their is a toll booth that collect a dollar per person to fund the bridge upkeep. Are you following me?

Half way through the day, and with half the crowd safely on the other side, the bridge breaks down. The half that already crossed had paid their toll, but are now stuck on the other side. The half who have not crossed claim they can't afford to pay for the bridge crossing. They have a buck, but claim they shouldn't have to contribute any more.

The left can't understand why it is important that everybody keep that bridge repaired or we all suffer in the end. They believe the hlaf that crossed should carry the entire load of upkeeping the bridge, while the half who won't pay, get a free ride. It takes everybody Brew to share the burden. If you want to my opinion why this is important, then re-read my previous post.
Great answer!

It reveals the one thing liberals just don't get about capitalism, and that is that while yes it is competitive no it is also cooperative. It's like a baseball game between competing teams who cooperate by adhering to explicit (three strikes and yer out!) and implicit (good sportsmanship) rules of the game.
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Pat
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Brewster
Feb 24 2012, 02:33 AM
Pat
Feb 24 2012, 02:22 AM
Brewster
Feb 24 2012, 01:19 AM
So in other words, you have no answer.

I ask you what makes Income Tax more painful than any other, and you give me a philosophical discussion about bridges.

All taxes are equally painful. And the poor and middle class pay a higher percentage of all other taxes than the rich. In fact, the total tax burden on the middle class relative to their income is almost double the others.

The rich are crossing the bridge almost for free.

The "50%" meme is just a talking point to prolong the war on the middle class.

Q. E. D.
No, Brew, I gave you the answer but your liberal side won't accept it. There is nothing wrong with ignoring the truth in this matter, our own Congress and local governments have for decades. But the truth is what it is. :smile:
Pat, you did not explain at all. The answer is not a liberal/conservative thing. And avoiding the question is not telling the truth.

Simple Question: How is paying Income Tax more painful than the others?

Until you can explain that, a tax is a tax, and the rich are avoiding their share.

(Actually, they are anyway, but we'll deal with than next.)
Not only did I answer it Brew, but if you have read past posts of mine surrounding this topic where I went into even more detail than here, you would understand why the policy of allowing 50% of wage earners off the hook of federal income tax is wrong. I'm convinced it is your total embrace of social democracy solutions in life as the reason you Brew, not only won't accept the blunt truth, but now argue that I even answered your question. Listen up Brew, I'm not going to answer the questions in the manner you like, which emboldens your socialist leanings. And I doubt any of those on the right you have asked will either. I have fundamental beliefs that reject socialism and social democracy. I believe we should all share the burden of governance in the areas needing financial support.
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Mountainrivers
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Pat
Feb 24 2012, 02:58 AM
Brewster
Feb 24 2012, 02:33 AM
Pat
Feb 24 2012, 02:22 AM
Brewster
Feb 24 2012, 01:19 AM
So in other words, you have no answer.

I ask you what makes Income Tax more painful than any other, and you give me a philosophical discussion about bridges.

All taxes are equally painful. And the poor and middle class pay a higher percentage of all other taxes than the rich. In fact, the total tax burden on the middle class relative to their income is almost double the others.

The rich are crossing the bridge almost for free.

The "50%" meme is just a talking point to prolong the war on the middle class.

Q. E. D.
No, Brew, I gave you the answer but your liberal side won't accept it. There is nothing wrong with ignoring the truth in this matter, our own Congress and local governments have for decades. But the truth is what it is. :smile:
Pat, you did not explain at all. The answer is not a liberal/conservative thing. And avoiding the question is not telling the truth.

Simple Question: How is paying Income Tax more painful than the others?

Until you can explain that, a tax is a tax, and the rich are avoiding their share.

(Actually, they are anyway, but we'll deal with than next.)
Not only did I answer it Brew, but if you have read past posts of mine surrounding this topic where I went into even more detail than here, you would understand why the policy of allowing 50% of wage earners off the hook of federal income tax is wrong. I'm convinced it is your total embrace of social democracy solutions in life as the reason you Brew, not only won't accept the blunt truth, but now argue that I even answered your question. Listen up Brew, I'm not going to answer the questions in the manner you like, which emboldens your socialist leanings. And I doubt any of those on the right you have asked will either. I have fundamental beliefs that reject socialism and social democracy. I believe we should all share the burden of governance in the areas needing financial support.
Closed mind!
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Thumper
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My computers screwed up bout as much as this thread is.
Edited by Thumper, Feb 24 2012, 03:54 AM.
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Thumper
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Chris
Feb 24 2012, 01:59 AM
"All taxes are equally painful."

Perhaps subjectively to you, but each of us evaluates that subjectively differently and most don't try to speak for others.
doglaugh Lordy lordy, take your own advice on this one Chris! Join the "most" group.
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Jim Miller
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tomdrobin
Feb 23 2012, 11:55 PM
Quote:
 


Jim

Social security isn't taxed unless you have enough other income. You have to make about 100K for it to be full taxed.
Well damn the IRS. They, again, have been stealing from me.
Edited by Jim Miller, Feb 24 2012, 04:15 AM.
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Thumper
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Like you been stealing from us for all your spare parts and scooter chair.
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Pat
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Mountainrivers
Feb 24 2012, 03:00 AM
Pat
Feb 24 2012, 02:58 AM
Brewster
Feb 24 2012, 02:33 AM
Pat
Feb 24 2012, 02:22 AM
Brewster
Feb 24 2012, 01:19 AM
So in other words, you have no answer.

I ask you what makes Income Tax more painful than any other, and you give me a philosophical discussion about bridges.

All taxes are equally painful. And the poor and middle class pay a higher percentage of all other taxes than the rich. In fact, the total tax burden on the middle class relative to their income is almost double the others.

The rich are crossing the bridge almost for free.

The "50%" meme is just a talking point to prolong the war on the middle class.

Q. E. D.
No, Brew, I gave you the answer but your liberal side won't accept it. There is nothing wrong with ignoring the truth in this matter, our own Congress and local governments have for decades. But the truth is what it is. :smile:
Pat, you did not explain at all. The answer is not a liberal/conservative thing. And avoiding the question is not telling the truth.

Simple Question: How is paying Income Tax more painful than the others?

Until you can explain that, a tax is a tax, and the rich are avoiding their share.

(Actually, they are anyway, but we'll deal with than next.)
Not only did I answer it Brew, but if you have read past posts of mine surrounding this topic where I went into even more detail than here, you would understand why the policy of allowing 50% of wage earners off the hook of federal income tax is wrong. I'm convinced it is your total embrace of social democracy solutions in life as the reason you Brew, not only won't accept the blunt truth, but now argue that I even answered your question. Listen up Brew, I'm not going to answer the questions in the manner you like, which emboldens your socialist leanings. And I doubt any of those on the right you have asked will either. I have fundamental beliefs that reject socialism and social democracy. I believe we should all share the burden of governance in the areas needing financial support.
Closed mind!
Maybe my rational thought is appearing to be closed minded Neal, by those who have not explored the matter as I have. I don't find it reasonable to accept what I believe to be a distortion or and subversion of the very foundation we as a people come from. What I mean by this is the foundation set forth by the founding fathers and enshrined in the constitution. I think my views reflect an open mindless to what matters. I still embrace and hold dear the traits of rugged individualism that I believe represents they meddle of our ancestors. People that had values of self sufficiency and who still knew how to dream big for themselves and their community. And even though I must begrudgingly admit that much of this was lost when a bunch of early 20th century Americans abandoned these traits, and embraced lives of dependency and stasis. And abandoned dreams as they accepted the death of the American spirit within them. I still refuse to surrender Neal. And I still live a life of dreams.

I don't believe I'm closed minded Neal, (but you may), when I believe the constitution defends my right to dream and aspire and the government that sprang from the constitution has two purposes. Defending my liberty and formulating laws that protect my property rights from those who attack the same, be it of foreign or internal origin. And I believe Neal, and don't consider myself closed minded, when I reject socialism and all attempts to co-opt the above in a plot, designed to instill socialism and it's attendant dependency.in it's stead.

Our government wasn't founded Neal, to guarantee the residents of this country a free ride. In fact Neal, the government exists for the very limited role I have noted. All else we see here played out before us in society, are the results of people abridging original intent. And I absolutely refuse to go along with this game. We need to fund the government for it;s purpose. And all of us need to do so.
Edited by Pat, Feb 24 2012, 04:42 AM.
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colo_crawdad
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Quote:
 
why the policy of allowing 50% of wage earners off the hook of federal income tax is wrong.


Even though the graph included with the OP clearly states that the vast majority of those not paying income tax have no taxable income? The logical conclusion of Pat's explanation is that all, whether they earn any taxable income or not should somehow pay "income tax." That just doesn't make sense, to me, at least. Must be my liberal outlook that makes me believe that the only folks that should pay income taxes are those earning taxable incomes.

BTW, Pat, perhaps you can highlight where the Opening Post says anything about
"wage earners" not paying Federal income taxes. I would certainly appreciate it.
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Pat
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colo_crawdad
Feb 24 2012, 04:50 AM
Quote:
 
why the policy of allowing 50% of wage earners off the hook of federal income tax is wrong.


Even though the graph included with the OP clearly states that the vast majority of those not paying income tax have no taxable income? The logical conclusion of Pat's explanation is that all, whether they earn any taxable income or not should somehow pay "income tax." That just doesn't make sense, to me, at least. Must be my liberal outlook that makes me believe that the only folks that should pay income taxes are those earning taxable incomes.

BTW, Pat, perhaps you can highlight where the Opening Post says anything about
"wage earners" not paying Federal income taxes. I would certainly appreciate it.
I expanded on the opening post Colo. It had already been noted in an earlier post your point. It doesn't surprise me that you believe some wage earners should be exempt form income tax. I think I have read from you in the past, that you support the concept that most of the tax burden should be paid by top wage earners. How do you defend the class warfare that concept embraces?
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