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| What was the vision of our early presidents? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Feb 21 2012, 09:35 AM (1,185 Views) | |
| Chris | Feb 22 2012, 11:24 PM Post #21 |
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Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
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"No one worships government here." It's a metaphor, Tom. "In a way it's just a necessary evil, to counter the excesses of human nature." That's interesting, given that men govern men, then government by your reckoning is the excesses of human nature governing the excesses of human nature. That's bound to fail. "Goody goody feel good capitalism..." One, you're conflating politics and economics there, but two, you're also claiming capitalism is something it's not--does "goody goody feel good" even mean anything? Ditto the rest of your leftist description of capitalism. Edited by Chris, Feb 22 2012, 11:25 PM.
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| Stoney | Feb 23 2012, 08:07 AM Post #22 |
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Campaign contributions by political entrepreneurs occur only because those government representatives that you hold in such high esteem can help those political entrepreneurs form the market in their favor. Without that ability there would be no reason to provide the contributions. With that ability there is no way to keep that money from flowing. |
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| tomdrobin | Feb 23 2012, 01:14 PM Post #23 |
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Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
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Government always has the ability to help business. That's not always a bad thing. But, when big money enfluences a politican to favor their position when it is counter to public interests, then it's a problem. |
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| Stoney | Feb 23 2012, 07:12 PM Post #24 |
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I agree that government always has the ability to help business and that it can be a problem, I would argue is a problem, not the role of government to help one business over another. My main argument is that government wouldn't be able to help political entrepreneurs squash competition if it did not have the ability to treat one business differently than others. I don't see a comment on that assertion, just a repeat of what you've already said. |
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| Chris | Feb 23 2012, 09:24 PM Post #25 |
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Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
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"Government always has the ability to help business. That's not always a bad thing. But, when big money enfluences a politican to favor their position when it is counter to public interests, then it's a problem." Government should not have this power, it is always a bad thing that leads to crony capitalism. Seems to be illegal activity by government is OK if you think it provides for or runs counter to your opinions, given you alone nor anyone else can define public interest in a meaningful way. |
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| Mountainrivers | Feb 23 2012, 09:38 PM Post #26 |
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Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
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"given you alone nor anyone else can define public interest in a meaningful way. " How true that is. Many of us would consider helping the less fortunate among us, in the public interest. Others would not. While others might consider attacking Iran in the public interest, others would not. Then there are extremes. There are people who would think that Socialism is in the public interest. Then there's people like Pat, whose only interest is personal, and apparently thinks there is no such thing as "the public interest". I think most of us look at it like we look at pornography. We know it when we see it. |
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| tomdrobin | Feb 24 2012, 12:23 AM Post #27 |
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Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
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And, if government does not have this power, what do you do about the excesses of economic power? Before government assumed this kind of power, it was basically a war between the barons and the unions with a lot of bloodshed. And, during that period the enfluence of communism and socialism was rampant because of the bitterness toward corporate and individual greed. Seems a democraticly elected government regulating in the public interest is a much better approach than laizes faire or socialism. The problem we have now is not government power. It's the corruption of that power by economic forces. |
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| Chris | Feb 24 2012, 02:38 AM Post #28 |
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Define public interest. How would you even go about that? Any aggregation of individual interests leads to abstractions. |
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| Chris | Feb 24 2012, 02:40 AM Post #29 |
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What excesses of economic power exist without the crony capitalistic support of government? I've asked you for months where this power comes from other than government. |
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| Stoney | Feb 24 2012, 06:24 AM Post #30 |
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You didn't read what I posted on "Robber Barons." If what you know to be true isn't , then you are bound to come to the wrong conclusion. |
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