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As unemployment benefits run our, many jobless file for disability SS
Topic Started: Feb 21 2012, 06:27 AM (2,084 Views)
colo_crawdad
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My impression is that, while many conservatives would rather deny Social Security Disability to many who deserve it rather than have a few who do not deserve it get it, many liberals tend to be in favor of allowing a few who do not deserve it to receive it in order that all who do deserve it receive it. JMHO
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Brewster
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Colo, letting a few cheaters get through is a far cheaper solution.

But then, on this and many issues such as abortion, it's pretty obvious the US Right only pays lip service to smaller government.
Edited by Brewster, Feb 22 2012, 02:01 AM.
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Mountainrivers
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colo_crawdad
Feb 22 2012, 01:58 AM
My impression is that, while many conservatives would rather deny Social Security Disability to many who deserve it rather than have a few who do not deserve it get it, many liberals tend to be in favor of allowing a few who do not deserve it to receive it in order that all who do deserve it receive it. JMHO
Yes, we would all like no fraud, but it isn't going to happen. Too many people and not enough people checking on them. The cons apparently think it's easy, but they haven't had to deal with it themselves.
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Pat
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Brewster
Feb 22 2012, 01:46 AM
Part, I think the number of truly disabled is far higher than you imagine -

My wife has MS - fairly well controlled at the moment, and she can walk around the store, or go to some event, or even do a bit of entertaining of friends - all while seemingly quite normal.

But she can't do more than one of those in a day. And then she needs a full day of rest after that. Nobody but me sees how many hour she sleeps, or sits huddled by a TV set. And sometimes she has a bad day even when she hasn't pushed herself.

What job do you think she can hold when she can't be fully functional more than three hours at a time? And can only show up every second day? And can't guarantee she'll be able to come in on any schedule even then?

And if she DID try to work, what time would that leave her to be with her family and friends?
I'm truly sorry to read this about your wife Brew. MS at her level, in my opinion, reduces her employable hours per week for sure. Doing phone center type work from home part time might be one solution. And by the way Brew, I'm not at war with the truly disabled as your wife is, it's the cheating deadbeats that I have in my sights. And we all know they are everywhere.

And I might add, the Social Security fraud investigators who claim they only found a few thousand are just full of BS. Thousand more are turned into them. Using this forum as a sampling, already today Tom has reported an ex daughter in law, and I know of an ex Darigold milkman and a relative who has sense deceased. The ex mailman races enduro motorcycles and collects SS disability. I turned him in to not avail. Nothing was done. The relative was a cheating deadbeat.
Edited by Pat, Feb 22 2012, 02:12 AM.
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Mountainrivers
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Pat
Feb 22 2012, 02:11 AM
Brewster
Feb 22 2012, 01:46 AM
Part, I think the number of truly disabled is far higher than you imagine -

My wife has MS - fairly well controlled at the moment, and she can walk around the store, or go to some event, or even do a bit of entertaining of friends - all while seemingly quite normal.

But she can't do more than one of those in a day. And then she needs a full day of rest after that. Nobody but me sees how many hour she sleeps, or sits huddled by a TV set. And sometimes she has a bad day even when she hasn't pushed herself.

What job do you think she can hold when she can't be fully functional more than three hours at a time? And can only show up every second day? And can't guarantee she'll be able to come in on any schedule even then?

And if she DID try to work, what time would that leave her to be with her family and friends?
I'm truly sorry to read this about your wife Brew. MS at her level, in my opinion, reduces her employable hours per week for sure. Doing phone center type work from home part time might be one solution. And by the way Brew, I'm not at war with the truly disabled as your wife is, it's the cheating deadbeats that I have in my sights. And we all know they are everywhere.

And I might add, the Social Security fraud investigators who claim they only found a few thousand are just full of BS. Thousand more are turned into them. Using this forum as a sampling, already today Tom has reported an ex daughter in law, and I know of an ex Darigold milkman and a relative who has sense deceased. The ex mailman races enduro motorcycles and collects SS disability. I turned him in to not avail. Nothing was done. The relative was a cheating deadbeat.
Pat, we all know that there are cases out there. You should read your own article you provided in reply to me. It explains much of why we have that particular problem. There are millions of people drawing SSi benefits and a few hundred, maybe thousands trying to curtail the fraud. If you want to hire more government employees to ferret out the deadbeats, I'm all for it.
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Pat
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Mountainrivers
Feb 22 2012, 01:50 AM
"It sounds to me like you have accepted SS disability fraud and that's that."

Wrong, I'm not defending fraud. What I'm arguing is that what you present as evidence is somebody's guess about the extent of it. If you have some data that shows how much is spent on fraudulent disability payments, present it.
I don't deny that there is fraud, what I do deny is that it is as important as you think it is in the great scheme of things. We have a three trillion dollar budget. Eleven billion is pocket change comparatively speaking. SSI payments are a tiny percentage of that. You are the one sticking your head in the sand when you deny facts.
Your years of personal observation and your assumed common sense nor your good word mean anything when my personal experience, common sense and good word contradict yours.
I can't help but wonder why you are so worked up over a relatively few people gaming the SSI system and don't say a word about the hundreds of billions wasted on the military.
Please provide something to show that SS spends 10% of their funds on SSI fraud. That would be a huge number.

"Social Security's chief priorities -- speeding up disability claims and serving customers -- leave the agency scarce funds to conduct disability reviews.

How do you propose to deal with that little fact? You guys always claim the government spends too much money unless it spends it the way you want it spent.
Not only that, but you cons are so turned off by universal health care, which is a huge expense to the country, that you aren't willing to even try to take it out of the hands of the insurance companies , which are getting rich at taxpayer expense. I think your priorities are screwed up.
LOL, you will find the 10% figure as supplied by Social Security on the Google search. You are spouting off yet obviously have not done a lick of research.

And I have bitched about military spending many times on this forum. You only read what you want to read here, and bypass that which disagrees with your opinion. Do some research Neal and we'll talk further on this. Right now, in my opinion, your mind is closed. You have a right to be complacent about disability abuse or SLOUGH IT OFF AS ACCEPTABLE. It doesn't make you a bad person, just part of the problem in my opinion.
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Mountainrivers
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Pat
Feb 22 2012, 02:19 AM
Mountainrivers
Feb 22 2012, 01:50 AM
"It sounds to me like you have accepted SS disability fraud and that's that."

Wrong, I'm not defending fraud. What I'm arguing is that what you present as evidence is somebody's guess about the extent of it. If you have some data that shows how much is spent on fraudulent disability payments, present it.
I don't deny that there is fraud, what I do deny is that it is as important as you think it is in the great scheme of things. We have a three trillion dollar budget. Eleven billion is pocket change comparatively speaking. SSI payments are a tiny percentage of that. You are the one sticking your head in the sand when you deny facts.
Your years of personal observation and your assumed common sense nor your good word mean anything when my personal experience, common sense and good word contradict yours.
I can't help but wonder why you are so worked up over a relatively few people gaming the SSI system and don't say a word about the hundreds of billions wasted on the military.
Please provide something to show that SS spends 10% of their funds on SSI fraud. That would be a huge number.

"Social Security's chief priorities -- speeding up disability claims and serving customers -- leave the agency scarce funds to conduct disability reviews.

How do you propose to deal with that little fact? You guys always claim the government spends too much money unless it spends it the way you want it spent.
Not only that, but you cons are so turned off by universal health care, which is a huge expense to the country, that you aren't willing to even try to take it out of the hands of the insurance companies , which are getting rich at taxpayer expense. I think your priorities are screwed up.
LOL, you will find the 10% figure as supplied by Social Security on the Google search. You are spouting off yet obviously have not done a lick of research.

And I have bitched about military spending many times on this forum. You only read what you want to read here, and bypass that which disagrees with your opinion. Do some research Neal and we'll talk further on this. Right now, in my opinion, your mind is closed. You have a right to be complacent about disability abuse or SLOUGH IT OFF AS ACCEPTABLE. It doesn't make you a bad person, just part of the problem in my opinion.
And yet, you, who readily acknowledge that what you post comes from your "life experience, your so-called common sense, and your good word is all that you depend on. I don't read everything on this forum, so maybe I missed it, but I would bet you ten bucks that you have complained far more about deadbeats than you have anything else. I hardly by pass anything that I disagree with. You can look at my post count and see that's a crock. I believe it's your mind that's closed. When you don't have an argument, you just stop posting on the thread and blame it on me? I'm not the one giving up here. BTW, you failed to reply to any of the points I made in my replies. Do that, and we can continue, or if not, keep on fooling yourself about you common sense.
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campingken
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Pat,

If the blind guy selling Christmas cards was born blind then he is not getting SS Disability. In order to get this you must have worked and paid into SS. Those who never worked get SSI (for people who could never work).

The SS definition of totally disabled is that you cannot work 40 hours a week on a job that exists anywhere in the USA and pays at least $750 a month (this may have gone up some). The fact that the job you qualify for isn't hiring or only exists in Maine and you live in Seattle wouldn't matter and your application would be refused.

The rule also says that a "cottage" industry job doesn't count i.e. someone creates a job just for you (your blind Christmas card seller is likely an example). Another interesting rule is that if you are under 50 when you apply you will be considered in the prime of your working life. For example a 49 year old college graduate applicant is presumed to have the same job finding ability as a 25 year old college graduate.

My understanding is that people on SSI are allowed to work low paying short term jobs such as selling Christmas cards etc without losing their monthly income. My best memory is that SSI pays a max of about $800 a month.

In a nation of 310,000,000 + million people you can find examples of SSD being received by people who do not deserve it. However they are not wide spread.

Additionally if you are awarded SSD and later feel that you can return to the work force you will be allowed to work and collect SSD for 18 months. Also every few years you may be ordered in for another doctor's exam to see if you have improved. I knew a Deputy who was injured on the job and along with his pension received SSD. After 4 years his condition improved and he started driving a truck and ultimately lost his SSD.
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Pat
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campingken
Feb 22 2012, 02:36 AM
Pat,

If the blind guy selling Christmas cards was born blind then he is not getting SS Disability. In order to get this you must have worked and paid into SS. Those who never worked get SSI (for people who could never work).

The SS definition of totally disabled is that you cannot work 40 hours a week on a job that exists anywhere in the USA and pays at least $750 a month (this may have gone up some). The fact that the job you qualify for isn't hiring or only exists in Maine and you live in Seattle wouldn't matter and your application would be refused.

The rule also says that a "cottage" industry job doesn't count i.e. someone creates a job just for you (your blind Christmas card seller is likely an example). Another interesting rule is that if you are under 50 when you apply you will be considered in the prime of your working life. For example a 49 year old college graduate applicant is presumed to have the same job finding ability as a 25 year old college graduate.

My understanding is that people on SSI are allowed to work low paying short term jobs such as selling Christmas cards etc without losing their monthly income. My best memory is that SSI pays a max of about $800 a month.

In a nation of 310,000,000 + million people you can find examples of SSD being received by people who do not deserve it. However they are not wide spread.

Additionally if you are awarded SSD and later feel that you can return to the work force you will be allowed to work and collect SSD for 18 months. Also every few years you may be ordered in for another doctor's exam to see if you have improved. I knew a Deputy who was injured on the job and along with his pension received SSD. After 4 years his condition improved and he started driving a truck and ultimately lost his SSD.
Thanks for the informative post Ken. I always appreciate posts that are a result of obvious research. Since 40 hours work is not many in a week's time, I assume it becomes more a matter of people taking the easy way out, than one of need when they approach the SS disability application.

I wonder if the deputy you mentioned volunteered the fact he was truck driving, or was caught. Have you experienced a relative or acquaintance collecting SS disability and noticed they don't have much difficulty getting around and doing physical activity?
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colo_crawdad
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Pat,

If you have witnessed such a relative and you truly believe that fraud should be stopped, can we correctly assume that you have reported this fraud?
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