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| As unemployment benefits run our, many jobless file for disability SS | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Feb 21 2012, 06:27 AM (2,085 Views) | |
| Jim Miller | Feb 21 2012, 10:02 PM Post #11 |
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Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
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Yup. |
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| Mountainrivers | Feb 21 2012, 10:05 PM Post #12 |
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Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
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You could be cleaning your gutters, fall off the ladder and break your neck, Be paralyzed. You could be in a car accident and suffer incapacitating injuries. There's a list a mile long about possible reasons for that. It's not a mystery to most folks. |
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| Deleted User | Feb 21 2012, 11:18 PM Post #13 |
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Maybe its too easy to get. It sure ain't here. My wife is on long term disability from work and Manulife keeps making her apply for the Canadian equiv of SS disability which they would simply deduct form what they give her. She has been turned down twice. My sister who has MS got it and she can actually get around better than my wife can. |
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| tomdrobin | Feb 21 2012, 11:58 PM Post #14 |
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Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
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One thing that increases disability rolls is the miracles of modern medicine. They can save a lot of people who in years past died. But, many of them are pretty disabled. As for people not wanting to work. I don't think it is that simple, many just give up the struggle to get by and look for an easy way out. |
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| Pat | Feb 22 2012, 12:24 AM Post #15 |
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Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
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I think Jim's simple definition is the issue that government needs to combat. Nobody can convince me that millions of Americans of working age, are disabled to thew point of non productivity. I remember dad buy Christmas cards each season from a woman that painted them by holding a paintbrush in her mouth. She was nearly 100% paralyzed, yet still productive. And we all know stories like her's. If I were president, I would mount a war that made the war on drugs look like a game of patty cake. Every deadbeat collecting federal government assistance would be in combat mode with me. Any doctor who participated in the charade would be put on notice, and drummed out of the profession. |
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| Mountainrivers | Feb 22 2012, 12:47 AM Post #16 |
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Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
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Pat, do you ever have any facts to present in your arguments or do you depend solely on your biases to determine where you stand. If you think there are all those deadbeats out there, who don't deserve assistance from the government, present some evidence of it rather than saying you know, which, of course, you don't. |
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| Mountainrivers | Feb 22 2012, 12:52 AM Post #17 |
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Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
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This is how many people were receiving SSI benefits in 2009. "United States 3,402,800" How many people would you need to hire to check to make sure that every one of them and their doctors were legitimate? |
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| Pat | Feb 22 2012, 01:31 AM Post #18 |
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Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
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Neal, It sounds to me like you have accepted SS disability fraud and that's that. Which is your right, you are free to stick your head in the sand with every report of or post about abuses in social programs. I think Neal, the end justifies the means in your life. The end being that millions get away with living on the public dole. In my previous post you accused me of posting to this thread and alluded to other times, where I don't provide you with reams of evidence supporting my position or opinion. To begin with Neal, years of personal observation and common sense, plus my good word should be enough evidence. But as in the past, I went out and dug up an article to show you that the problem of disability fraud is huge. It costs us $billions each year. I'm sure you have your reasons for protecting and defending SS fraud, but not all of us view this as a benign issue. We don't appreciate getting screwed over by cheats. Read this Neal, and Google the term Social Security disability fraud for thousands of references to the issue. Social Security admits to spending 10% of their budget on the problem. And it's not enough, they urge you and me to turn in the cheats and provide pamphlets to inform you how to do just that. Note that this article is from 2008, beofre the explosion of unemployment due to the recession. So you can factor in many more cheats tasking advantage of the system after running out their extended unemployment benefits. http://www.oregonlive.com/news/index.ssf/2008/12/disability_fraud_saps_social_s.html Cheaters cost Social Security billions Published: Saturday, December 06, 2008, 8:36 PM Updated: Monday, December 08, 2008, 7:18 AM Amy Reifenrath, The Oregonian By Amy Reifenrath, The Oregonian The Oregonian The Social Security Administration has fallen behind in reviewing the medical conditions of 1.7 million Americans on its disability rolls, potentially paying up to $11 billion in benefits to people who are no longer disabled. The agency's failure to tackle those pending disability reviews allows tens of thousands of undeserving people to bleed government funds that Americans count on when they become too sick or injured to work, The Oregonian found in an ongoing investigation of Social Security. "It's lost money to taxpayers," said Rick Warsinskey, past president of the association representing Social Security's field managers. "There's going to be less money available to pay people their Social Security. We're setting aside money for them. ... It's going to be spent." Federal law requires Social Security to periodically evaluate the status of the 7.3 million people who draw checks from its Disability Insurance Trust Fund and the more than 4 million disabled adults who are paid Supplemental Security Income from the Treasury. More To read earlier stories about the challenges many face receiving Social Security disability insurance benefits, go to "Battling for benefits." Those assessments, called continuing disability reviews, or CDRs, are supposed to weed out those who aren't disabled. The reviews have a phenomenal rate of return, last year saving $11.74 for every $1 spent, according to agency records. But Social Security's leaders have pushed those potential savings aside to confront another embarrassing backlog -- 766,905 people waiting to plead cases for benefits before the agency's corps of judges. Social Security's chief priorities -- speeding up disability claims and serving customers -- leave the agency scarce funds to conduct disability reviews. The agency processed about one in three that came due last year, says Kelly Croft, the agency's deputy commissioner for quality performance. "They don't hold up against many of these other priorities," he says. "If we had permission to spend more upfront, we're certain that we could get taxpayers a very good return on that investment." SSI reviews lag Disability reviews processed last year by Social Security are expected to eventually cut benefits to 33,000 people -- one of every 21 whose cases were reviewed -- according to an agency report sent to congressional leaders last month. Those reviews are estimated to yield savings of $3.3 billion that would have been paid out in future benefits, the report says. Social Security also has fallen way behind in keeping the Supplemental Security Income program honest. That taxpayer-funded program, known as SSI, provides an average monthly check of $492 to aged, blind and disabled people with few resources. The agency used to process 3 million redeterminations annually, but this year did just 1.2 million. That means the agency isn't catching as many payment errors as it used to, which last year contributed to $3.9 billion in overpayments. "If we catch them soon enough, then we can minimize the damage," says Witold Skwierczynski, president of the union that represents nearly half of Social Security's 61,500 employees. "But by not doing this work, we're not minimizing the damage. In fact, we're maximizing the damage -- we're not even discovering these kinds of overpayments." Getting caught Members of Congress and advocates for the disabled say that reviewing the medical and employment status of people already getting benefits is the most effective way to make sure that only the deserving get money. But lack of funding for those reviews has hurt the agency's chances of catching someone like Louis K. Smith. The former Portland man, who is HIV-positive, started collecting disability benefits in 1995, when he became too sick to work. A battery of drugs improved his health, and he eventually took a job clerking for a Multnomah County judge. Smith earned $31,000 a year while continuing to draw disability checks. When the judge found out, he turned him in. Two years ago, Smith pleaded guilty to wrongly collecting benefits and was put on probation. He was ordered to repay $53,544. Today, Smith says he told agency officials that he had gone back to work but they kept depositing payments into his bank account. He decided to keep the money to help pay for medications, an act he now says was wrong. Still, Smith says, the agency never reviewed his case. "Anyone who would have looked at my case would have seen I was back working," he says. "But there was no follow-up from Social Security -- nothing." Some people fight years for disability benefits, get them, then discover that the agency doesn't keep scrutinizing them. So, even when their conditions improve, many keep it to themselves, Skwierczynski says. "They're not going to go volunteer and contact Social Security and say, 'Hey, you know, I feel better -- I don't think I should be getting benefits.'" Medical review backlog Social Security stands far behind in processing what it calls "medical CDRs," its most comprehensive -- and expensive -- form of disability reviews. The agency is required to conduct extensive medical evaluations at least once every three years on people whose health is most likely to improve. Beneficiaries who are less likely to get better are supposed to fill out medical questionnaires. Officials at Social Security's Baltimore headquarters say 1.7 million medical disability reviews are now overdue. Another 1.7 million of them will come due next year, but the agency says that it expects only enough funding to process 1 million. Though it might seem logical for Social Security to pour itself into disability reviews to save taxpayer money, that's not the way things work. Former commissioner Jo Anne B. Barnhart often described the work as "penny-wise and pound-foolish." The reason? Social Security pays to process disability reviews out of its budget -- $281 million last year. But the billions saved do not benefit the agency's budget. The savings belong to the Treasury, or they go to the Disability Insurance Trust Fund, the same place that a piece of your paycheck goes when it's deducted for Social Security. In an interview last summer, Barnhart said disability reviews cut into Social Security's budget but don't remedy the agency's larger political headache -- the long lines of people seeking approval of their disability claims. That's where she and her successor, Michael J. Astrue, focused their energies. "You have to make a value judgment," Barnhart said. Astrue, confirmed as commissioner in early 2007, declined through a spokesman to be interviewed about the disability review problem, saying he was too focused on the agency's budget and backlog of disability claims. But he noted in an interview last June that Social Security had begun to reverse its decline in reviews over the past several years. "You can't fix it in one year," he said. History has shown he's right. When the agency fell behind in its medical disability reviews in 1996, Congress authorized an extra $2 billion to bring the agency up to date. But it took seven years. When the money ran out in 2003, the cases pending began to mount. Catching up on today's overdue medical disability reviews would net approximate savings of $10 billion to $11 billion, Social Security's actuaries found in an analysis for The Oregonian. Those are the estimated savings in future benefits that would be paid to people who aren't entitled to them. Astrue's budget officers now estimate that Congress would have to make special appropriations of $2.4 billion just to get current with medical disability reviews and return the agency to its historic volumes of SSI eligibility reviews. And they estimate, even with that funding, it would take until 2013. Agency officials acknowledge that the Bush administration hasn't sought nearly enough money from Congress to fix the disability review problem. Rep. Kevin Brady, R-Texas, says he wasn't aware how serious the problem had become until contacted by The Oregonian. Brady, a member of the House Ways and Means subcommittee on Social Security, says he wants to hold a hearing on the subject. "As precious as those dollars are for disability cases that actually deserve help, we can't allow potentially billions of dollars to be lost to fraud or just red tape," Brady says. "Given the fact that we are running historic deficits in the budget, I think a plea for investing the small amount of money that could save us tons of money later ... will be well-received." -- Bryan Denson; bryandenson@news.oregonian.com -- Brent Walth; brentwalth@news.oregonian.com Flagrant fraud Twice a year, Social Security's inspector general reports to Congress on some of the agency's most intriguing fraud investigations. Few of the cases, however, stand out quite like U.S. v. Denise M. "Dee" Henderson. The Minnesota mom was awarded Social Security disability benefits in February 1999 after she complained that a car wreck left her unable to walk for longer than 10 minutes and that lifting a gallon of milk gave her migraine headaches. A month later, records show, Henderson won the Mrs. Minnesota International pageant after taking part in an evening gown competition and an aerobic wear fashion show. In 2004, a jury found Henderson guilty of nine counts of defrauding Social Security. A judge sent her to prison. Other highlight cases: • An Oregon woman who got regular disability benefits for a bad back turned out to be a caretaker for three horses, rode in endurance events and competed in equestrian competitions during 2001. The agency halted her benefits. • A pair of New Jersey business partners, claiming mental and physical conditions, got disability awards in 1990, then launched a restaurant specializing in gourmet soups. They reported sales of $700,000 from 1996 to 2000. The government sent them to prison and ordered them to pay restitution of $2.7 million. • A Florida woman awarded disability benefits because she was legally blind renewed her driver's license in 2003. In January 2006, after getting two traffic tickets, she admitted her sight had improved. Social Security cut off her benefits and ordered her to repay $106,762. --Bryan Denson Benefits cheaters can escape radar for years Social Security declared Medford trucker James F. Hall disabled in 1994 and began sending him monthly benefit checks. But when Hall returned to work full time three years later, he didn't share news of his improved fortunes with the agency. Instead he rolled across America for nine years, earning a six-figure income that would have disqualified him from disability benefits. Social Security, unaware, kept sending him checks. Hall, 67, acknowledged in 2006 that he failed to report his employment because he didn't want his benefits to stop, federal court records show. He played down his income on one of Social Security's work activity reports, part of the agency's regular reviews of disability beneficiaries. But there were enough records -- obtained by federal agents -- to show he earned an average of $102,683 a year from 1998 to 2004. Federal authorities used those documents in 2006 to convict the long-haul trucker of stealing government property, a felony. He was sentenced to one day in jail and ordered to repay $137,105 in disability payments that he and his wife received because of his deception. Hall did not respond to phone messages left on his answering machine. Social Security officials say they lack the resources to properly review the millions of Americans now drawing disability checks. The agency has focused on curbing its unprecedented bottleneck of new claims, leaving fewer Social Security workers to ensure that those already getting benefits still deserve them. The agency's Office of the Inspector General runs anti-fraud units in Salem, Seattle and 18 other cities across the nation to keep beneficiaries honest. The Cooperative Disability Investigations units, known as CDI, identified 2,431 people who defrauded the agency's disability programs in 2006 and 3,106 last year. The teams, whose budget totaled $15.6 million in that two-year stretch, saved an estimated $575.9 million. Though disability fraud takes many forms, the CDI teams key on people who feign or exaggerate symptoms to get benefits, as well as those, like Hall, who improve medically but don't report it. Cases include the "blind" caught driving, the mentally disabled earning top scholastic honors and people with supposedly ruined backs performing feats of strength, agility and stamina. Many people who draw disability benefits and then secretly go back to work are poor and desperate for money, says Assistant U.S. Attorney Kemp Strickland. But Hall, the Medford big-rig driver he prosecuted in 2006, certainly wasn't poor. "This guy was capable of earning a lot of money and working," Strickland said. "So he was really doing more than double dipping; he was really taking advantage of federal benefits, which is taxpayer money." -- Bryan Denson Related topics: disability fraud, Social Security eather | Sports | Entert |
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| Brewster | Feb 22 2012, 01:46 AM Post #19 |
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Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
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Part, I think the number of truly disabled is far higher than you imagine - My wife has MS - fairly well controlled at the moment, and she can walk around the store, or go to some event, or even do a bit of entertaining of friends - all while seemingly quite normal. But she can't do more than one of those in a day. And then she needs a full day of rest after that. Nobody but me sees how many hour she sleeps, or sits huddled by a TV set. And sometimes she has a bad day even when she hasn't pushed herself. What job do you think she can hold when she can't be fully functional more than three hours at a time? And can only show up every second day? And can't guarantee she'll be able to come in on any schedule even then? And if she DID try to work, what time would that leave her to be with her family and friends? Edited by Brewster, Feb 22 2012, 01:47 AM.
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| Mountainrivers | Feb 22 2012, 01:50 AM Post #20 |
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"It sounds to me like you have accepted SS disability fraud and that's that." Wrong, I'm not defending fraud. What I'm arguing is that what you present as evidence is somebody's guess about the extent of it. If you have some data that shows how much is spent on fraudulent disability payments, present it. I don't deny that there is fraud, what I do deny is that it is as important as you think it is in the great scheme of things. We have a three trillion dollar budget. Eleven billion is pocket change comparatively speaking. SSI payments are a tiny percentage of that. You are the one sticking your head in the sand when you deny facts. Your years of personal observation and your assumed common sense nor your good word mean anything when my personal experience, common sense and good word contradict yours. I can't help but wonder why you are so worked up over a relatively few people gaming the SSI system and don't say a word about the hundreds of billions wasted on the military. Please provide something to show that SS spends 10% of their funds on SSI fraud. That would be a huge number. "Social Security's chief priorities -- speeding up disability claims and serving customers -- leave the agency scarce funds to conduct disability reviews. How do you propose to deal with that little fact? You guys always claim the government spends too much money unless it spends it the way you want it spent. Not only that, but you cons are so turned off by universal health care, which is a huge expense to the country, that you aren't willing to even try to take it out of the hands of the insurance companies , which are getting rich at taxpayer expense. I think your priorities are screwed up. |
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10:16 PM Jul 11
