Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
What happened to Democrats and Republicans?; now libs and cons
Topic Started: Feb 20 2012, 10:21 AM (683 Views)
Thumper
Member Avatar
Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
[ * ]
Most Republicans I know are not conservatives nor are the Democrats liberals. Why the name changes? Is this an issue with the Right, the Left or both? I perfer to call myself a Republican, but soon to be a Democrat if the GOP doesn't do something soon.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
colo_crawdad
Member Avatar
Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
[ * ]
Since the Right hijacked the Republican party, they no longer are the "big tent" party. Right wingers refer to middle of the road Republicans as "RINOS."JMHO

I have yet to read of a democrat on this forum calling a conservative democrat a DINO.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Jim Miller
Member Avatar
Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
[ * ]
True. Rarely do we get anything intelligent from the left.
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
campingken
No Avatar
Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
[ * ]
Jim is the IQ standard bearer for the right. He isn't even smart enough to realize that being supported by "stolen" tax dollars while enjoying the protection of a union and tenure is not a conservative lifestyle....

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
tomdrobin
Member Avatar
Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
[ * ]
Most Republicans I know are conservatives. Most democrats I know though are not necessarily liberals. More centrists. I used to consider myself a Republican, but not anymore. I just had one of those automated polling calls last night and pushed the button for independant.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Chris
Member Avatar
Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
[ * ]
Let’s Start Here
Quote:
 
Before a sensible conversation is possible, everyone has to agree on definitions. The fact that millions of Americans don’t agree on definitions is arguably the main reason why political conversation in this country is so often incoherent – and we therefore get nowhere.

For example, we have the ongoing “debate” (so-called) between Republicans and Democrats, “conservatives” and”liberals.” It is like the “debate” between the National Socialists of long-ago Germany and the communists of Soviet Russia. Fascism, communism – they are both in fundamental agreement, much as they argue (often fiercely) about the particulars. It is the same with our Republicans and Democrats. They do not fundamentally disagree. Both urge that society be organized on an authoritarian collectivist basis – though they each call this by a different name. They disagree merely on the ways in which this force is to be organized – and how it is to be used.

Most Americans are either socialists or fascists, to one degree or another. On the political “left” we have those who favor economic redistribution in the name of “the poor.” On the political “right,” we have those who favor economic redistribution for the sake of “defense” and other cartelized manifestations of big business.

But both meet in the middle.

They agree that rights are really conditional privileges, granted (and limited) by “society.” Neither respects ownership of our persons, let alone our property. Both exert their power over the individual by coercive, collectivist mechanisms which the individual is required to obey in exactly the same way as William Wallace of Braveheart renown was told he had committed treason against “his” king by refusing to Submit and Obey. When Wallace tells his inquisitors that “never in my life did I swear allegiance to him,” the blase reply, “It matters not – he is your king,” is just exactly the same reply any individual American would receive today (by form letter) from, say, the IRS. And it would be affirmed by most Americans, too.

So, definitions.

To have a proper conversation in 2012 America, we should begin by dispensing with the intellectually dishonest and conversationally incoherent terms, Republican and Democrat, liberal and conservative.

There are authoritarians of various inclinations – and people opposed to authoritarianism in all its manifestations.

Let me put it in concrete terms, using an everyday example: property taxes. Both the (so-called) left and right agree on the principle, with their differences coming down to the amount of the tax and how the monies extorted thereby are to be spent. The “Democrat” or “liberal” wants to make sure the local government schools are well-funded. The “conservative” or “Republican” agrees – he just wants to make sure the money doesn’t go to fund the teaching of evolution or the advocacy of gay marriage. Neither of which ultimately matters, of course, to the former (more precisely, never was) land or home owner. He pays, regardless. And if he declines to pay, both types of authoritarians – on the “left” and the “right” – will draw their knives and seek his blood. Literally, they will kill him, if it comes to that. If he declines to pay the money they demand – and attempts to defend himself against their demands.

An anti-authoritarian is repelled by the spectacle. Because he rejects, in principle, the shedding of blood to lubricate the machinery of authoritarianism. You are either a free man – the owner of your person and any property you duly pay for, without restriction of condition. Or you are not. Free men are not reduced to “company town” servitude by the making of their “ownership” of property conditional on paying rent to the government each year in perpetuity. You either own your land, your home – or you do not. Similarly, either your physical person is yours – or it is not. “Democrat” “liberals” believe that it is not – that your physical person is merely a constituent cell of the Great Collective. Hence, for example, seatbelt laws. And on the “Republic” and “conservative” side, the war on (some) drugs. Your body is not yours. The collective claims it first.

Here again, the anti-authoritarian takes a fundamentally different view. He does not point guns at you “for your own good” – or for any other reason, except in self-defense.

It is time to choose sides. You are either an authoritarian of one description or another. Or you are opposed to authoritarianism. There is no middle ground, no having your authoritarianism and your liberty, too. So-called “moderate” authoritarians believe the latter is possible but in fact, it is only a transitory condition. When it comes to human rights, once ground has been given for any reason, you will soon find yourself without any ground at all left to stand upon. It is only question of time before whatever remnant remains of your former rights are are shredded in their entirety. It is like a steer trying to stay on its feet amid a pack of hungry lions, hoping they will only rip off some of his flesh and be satisfied with that.

So, let’s begin with proper definitions – and call things by their right name, openly.

It will be a good start.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
campingken
No Avatar
Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
[ * ]
Chris,

The first sentence makes the rest of the story worthless. Everyone will never agree on anything.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Thumper
Member Avatar
Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
[ * ]
Chris, why not post what you think in your own words.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mountainrivers
Member Avatar
Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
[ * ]
Thumper
Feb 21 2012, 02:53 AM
Chris, why not post what you think in your own words.
Chris has actually gotten better at that. Believe it or not. But when I first ran into him, a few years ago, all he could do pretty much was tell you what somebody else said.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
tomdrobin
Member Avatar
Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
[ * ]
I remember Chris the centrist. Just as argumentive then, but we agreed more often. :tongue:
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
ZetaBoards - Free Forum Hosting
Free Forums. Reliable service with over 8 years of experience.
Learn More · Sign-up for Free
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Fire And Ice General Discussion · Next Topic »
Add Reply

Website Traffic Analysis