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Europe's Supply-Side Revolution; It's working for Germany
Topic Started: Feb 18 2012, 11:28 PM (3,045 Views)
Stoney
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"Study after study has shown that the US middle class pays almost double the percent tax that the rich do, and the richest pay less than all but the very poorest."

Not true.
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tomdrobin
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No comment from the right wingers on the Germans refuting their supply side BS?
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Banandangees
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What's not true of the original link:

"That's how Germany became what it is today. A mere decade ago Germany was called "the sick man of Europe." It was still painfully digesting the unification of the former West Germany's relatively free and modern economy with the former Soviet-enslaved East. Ten years ago German unemployment was 8.2%-the same as Europe's overall-while U.S. unemployment was 5.7%. What did Germany do that allowed it to charge ahead and trade unemployment rates with the U.S.?

Starting in 2003, Germany under then-Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder began to implement a program of long-term structural reform called "Agenda 2010." The idea was to transform Germany into an economy where business has an incentive to invest, and where labor has an incentive-and an opportunity-to work. This was pro-growth reform that would be very familiar to Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher.
"
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Sea Dog
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I notice that Jim has several great ideas concerning tax reform.
Someone from Washington should pay attention.
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tomdrobin
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Banandangees
Feb 19 2012, 07:33 AM
What's not true of the original link:

"That's how Germany became what it is today. A mere decade ago Germany was called "the sick man of Europe." It was still painfully digesting the unification of the former West Germany's relatively free and modern economy with the former Soviet-enslaved East. Ten years ago German unemployment was 8.2%-the same as Europe's overall-while U.S. unemployment was 5.7%. What did Germany do that allowed it to charge ahead and trade unemployment rates with the U.S.?

Starting in 2003, Germany under then-Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder began to implement a program of long-term structural reform called "Agenda 2010." The idea was to transform Germany into an economy where business has an incentive to invest, and where labor has an incentive-and an opportunity-to work. This was pro-growth reform that would be very familiar to Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher.
"
Like all right wing spin, there is an element of truth, albiet in this case slight. What it leaves out is the huge stimulus spending by the German government to get their economy going. That's primarily Keyenisiam economics as stated in the article I posted from the German publication Der Spiegel (literally translated The Mirror). Keynesian theory is pretty much the opposite of Supply Side theory. Supply side theory hasn't worked for the last 30 years, but still the right wingers are holding fast to it.

Where in the world except right wing land does a lie become true if you keep repeating it.
And, the cure for a failed economic policy become more of the same.

frypan
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Chris
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Tom "What it leaves out is the huge stimulus spending by the German government to get their economy going. That's primarily Keyenisiam economics as stated in the article I posted from the German publication Der Spiegel (literally translated The Mirror). Keynesian theory is pretty much the opposite of Supply Side theory. Supply side theory hasn't worked for the last 30 years, but still the right wingers are holding fast to it."

One, can you tell us the exact multiplier effects of the German stimulus, and the basis of calculating it. A Keynesian would know this.

Two, Keynes actually advocated single, small stimuli to kick start a lagging economy, multiple, extended stimuli are neo-Kenynesian.

Three, Keynes advocated coupling such stimuli with tax cuts when in a recession.
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tomdrobin
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Chris
Feb 19 2012, 08:00 AM
One, can you tell us the exact multiplier effects of the German stimulus, and the basis of calculating it. A Keynesian would know this.

Two, Keynes actually advocated single, small stimuli to kick start a lagging economy, multiple, extended stimuli are neo-Kenynesian.

Three, Keynes advocated coupling such stimuli with tax cuts when in a recession.
I'm not a Keynesian. Just quoting the der spiegel article. Their conclusion was the turnaround in the German economy was the result of stimulus spending.

It was a counter to the original post that tried to claim supply side economics was responsible.

As it relates to the US. We've had tax cuts. But, the stimulus has been limited due to GOP opposition. Remember the charges of "failed stimulus"? Maybe it wasn't big enough. The historical evidence is there, with WWII being a huge stimulus package for the economy. And, it was paid for by those confiscatory tax rates after the war.
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Chris
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"Their conclusion was the turnaround in the German economy was the result of stimulus spending.."

Based on what?


"It was a counter to the original post that tried to claim supply side economics was responsible."

I can't find where it said that, can you point it out. Only one I see talking about supply side is you with your taunts.


"WWII being a huge stimulus package"

Right, that when it ended led to a recession. What did Congress do to fight that despite FDR's demands to continue the war-time economy peace-time?
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Brewster
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Stoney
Feb 19 2012, 07:22 AM
"Study after study has shown that the US middle class pays almost double the percent tax that the rich do, and the richest pay less than all but the very poorest."

Not true.
Actually, it is, Stoney. I've posted at least three studies already. Do you need a fourth?

Here's one for Federal taxes only:
Posted Image
LINK

Now here's what people pay at the state level:
Posted Image
LINK

Let's do a few calculations:

Bottom 20% = 4.0 federal + 11% state = 15%
Middle 20% = 14.7 + 9.7= 24.4%
Fourth Quartile (upper middle) = 20.5 + 8.5 = 29%
Top rate = 9.0 + 5.0 = 14%

So the poorest pay more % tax than the very richest.

And the upper middle actually pay MORE than double the rich.

And that doesn't even count local taxes, which would skew the numbers even more in favour of the rich.

In MY Opinion, that amounts to war on the middle class.
Edited by Brewster, Feb 19 2012, 08:21 AM.
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Jim Miller
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Still not your business, Brew. A USA citizen wannabe who spends most of his time peeping in our windows still doesn't have anything meaningful to say.
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