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A very sad day in Canada; Bill to abolish gun registry
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Topic Started: Feb 16 2012, 07:25 AM (1,639 Views)
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Jim Miller
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Feb 17 2012, 11:10 AM
Post #61
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Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
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- Sea Dog
- Feb 16 2012, 09:52 PM
- Jim Miller
- Feb 16 2012, 09:51 PM
Don't have time. I am taking a friend for medical tests.
Take your friend to Canada, the tests will be free! I suggested that, Sea, but she opted for quality care instead.
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Sea Dog
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Feb 17 2012, 09:56 PM
Post #62
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Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
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- Jim Miller
- Feb 17 2012, 11:10 AM
- Sea Dog
- Feb 16 2012, 09:52 PM
- Jim Miller
- Feb 16 2012, 09:51 PM
Don't have time. I am taking a friend for medical tests.
Take your friend to Canada, the tests will be free!
I suggested that, Sea, but she opted for quality care instead. Ha Ha.
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Brewster
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Feb 17 2012, 10:36 PM
Post #63
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Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
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- Jim Miller
- Feb 17 2012, 11:10 AM
- Sea Dog
- Feb 16 2012, 09:52 PM
- Jim Miller
- Feb 16 2012, 09:51 PM
Don't have time. I am taking a friend for medical tests.
Take your friend to Canada, the tests will be free!
I suggested that, Sea, but she opted for quality care instead. Jim must be taking her to Mexico.
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Chris
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Feb 21 2012, 09:55 AM
Post #64
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Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
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Death of a Long-Gun Registry- Quote:
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Despite spending a whopping $2.7 billion on creating and running a long-gun registry, Canadians never reaped any benefits from the project. The legislation to end the program finally passed the Parliament on Wednesday. Even though the country started registering long guns in 1998, the registry never solved a single murder. Instead it has been an enormous waste of police officers’ time, diverting their efforts from patrolling Canadian streets and doing traditional policing activities.
Gun-control advocates have long claimed that registration is a safety issue, and their reasoning is straightforward: If a gun has been left at a crime scene and it was registered to the person who committed the crime, the registry will link the crime gun back to the criminal.
Nice logic, but reality never worked that way. Crime guns are very rarely left at the crime scene, and when they are left at the scene, they have not been registered — criminals are not stupid enough to leave behind a gun that’s registered to them. Even in the few cases where registered crime guns are left at the scene, it is usually because the criminal has been seriously injured or killed, so these crimes would have been solved even without registration. The statistics speak for themselves. From 2003 to 2009, there were 4,257 homicides in Canada, 1,314 of which were committed with firearms. Data provided last fall by the Library of Parliament reveals that the weapon was identified in fewer than a third of the homicides with firearms, and that about three-quarters of the identified weapons were not registered. Of the weapons that were registered, about half were registered to someone other than the person accused of the homicide. In just 62 cases — that is, only 4.7 percent of all firearm homicides — was the gun registered to the accused. As most homicides in Canada are not committed with a gun, the 62 cases correspond to only about 1 percent of all homicides.
To repeat, during these seven years, there were only 62 cases — nine a year — where it was even conceivable that registration made a difference. But apparently, the registry was not important even in those cases. The Royal Canadian Mounted Police and the Chiefs of Police have not yet provided a single example in which tracing was of more than peripheral importance in solving a case.
The problem isn’t just with the long-gun registry. The data provided above cover all guns, including handguns. There is no evidence that, since the handgun registry was started in 1934, it has been important in solving a single homicide.
Looking at just long guns shows that since 1997, there have been three murders in which the gun was registered to the accused. The Canadian government doesn’t provide any information on whether those three accused individuals were convicted.
Nor is there any evidence that registration reduced homicides. Research published last year by McMaster University professor Caillin Langmann in the Journal of Interpersonal Violence confirmed what other academic studies have found: “This study failed to demonstrate a beneficial association between legislation and firearm homicide rates between 1974 and 2008.” There is not a single refereed academic study by criminologists or economists that has found a significant benefit from gun laws. A recent Angus Reid poll indicates that Canadians already understand this, with only 13 percent believing that the registry has been successful.
The problem isn’t just that the $2.7 billion spent on registration over 17 years has produced no arrests, it is that the money could have been used to put more police on the street or pay for more health care or cut taxes. An extra $160 million a year pays for a lot of police or doctors or teachers. Take police. Assuming each officer is paid $70,000 per year, $2.7 billion would pay for almost 2,300 officers annually. Academic research by one of us (Lott) indicates that adding that many street officers would reduce violent crimes in Canada by about 1,800. Registration isn’t getting Canadians any of this.
And the costs of running the registry aren’t just the $2.7 billion, since that excludes enforcement costs and individual compliance costs. The first step that police in Canada take in investigating a violent crime is to see if their suspects are licensed gun owners. But when Canada has 6.4 million registered gun owners, and police accuse only nine people of homicide each year whose registered guns were found at the scene of a crime, the return seems as close to zero as possible. It is also claimed that registration protects police officers’ safety, but homicide against Canadian police officers is actually up 20 percent since the long-gun registry started, compared with the rate during the previous decade. And more important, not a single police officer has been identified as being killed by someone with a registered gun. Gun-control proponents have worried that scrapping the long-gun registry after so much has been invested in it would be a waste — “a $2 billion bonfire,” in the words of Gatineau member of Parliament Françoise Boivin. Unfortunately, that money is already wasted, and the registry costs kept growing. It costs about $100 million a year to operate. Instead of burning up more money, Canada can spend it on things that will actually do some good.
Too bad jack has me on ignore, his stats just took a dive.
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Deleted User
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Feb 21 2012, 11:21 PM
Post #65
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Deleted User
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I tend to agree, long rifles are not a big homicide factor. Most are simply used by hunters & farmers
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jackd
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Feb 21 2012, 11:49 PM
Post #66
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Telco:
- Quote:
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long rifles are not a big homicide factor.
I don't know who you agree with but, StatsCan says otherwise:
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Eighty percent of the 264 recovered firearms that had been involved in an attempted or completed suicide were long guns (Department of Justice Canada,2006 Report to Minister) Of the 16 police officer shooting deaths in Canada between 1998 and 2009, 14 (87.5%) were killed by a long gun. Long guns are used in 66% of domestic violence and in suicides. 87% of suicide victims, and 67% of all homicides outside larger metropolitan centers involved long-guns. Hand guns were involved in 56% of suicides and homicides in large metropolitan jurisdictions.
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campingken
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Feb 22 2012, 02:46 AM
Post #67
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Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
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jackd,
The above are not stats that you need to be ashamed of.
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ImaHeadaU
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Feb 22 2012, 07:18 AM
Post #68
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- Chris
- Feb 21 2012, 09:55 AM
Death of a Long-Gun Registry- Quote:
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Despite spending a whopping $2.7 billion on creating and running a long-gun registry, Canadians never reaped any benefits from the project.
There are some who would beg to differ.
Frank J. Elsner, Chief of Police, Greater Sudbury Police Service- Quote:
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Contrary to the assertions of some, the registry has been operated effectively and efficiently since the Royal Canadian Mounted Police took over administration of the system in 2005. As well, the cost of maintaining the registry on an annual basis has vastly been reduced to approximately 4 million dollars a year.
Far more concerning, is hearing that Canadians have been told police don't need or use the registry. The fact is Canadian police officers query the Firearms Registry an average of 11,500 times a day, over 4,100,000 times a year, for many reasons:
It is used in criminal investigations to determine the origin of firearms used in crime and recovered from criminals;
It is used to identify and remove firearms from dangerous situations;
It is used to return recovered firearms to their rightful owners;
It is used to provide police officers with reliable information on who possesses firearms, the number of firearms and the make and calibre of firearms one is likely to encounter;
It is used to create accountability for the sale and disposition of firearms, which creates a trail to determine the origin of crime guns;
It is used to encourage responsible gun ownership and the safe storage of firearms.
The Registry has become an effective law enforcement tool for front line officers who put themselves at risk for community safety on a daily basis. As an example, Bail Safety Officers in our community, who are responsible to ensure anyone released on bail doesn't pose a further threat to our community while awaiting trial, use the Registry every single day. CBC
February 13, 2012- Quote:
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Last week's arrest of an Island Outfitters employee who embezzled $250,000 worth of hunting supplies - including 159 firearms - is shedding light on Saanich police's use of the Canadian Firearms Registry.
"Long-gun registry checks were at the forefront of this investigation," Sgt. Dean Jantzen said. "We support these accessible databases ... when we're investigating instances like this."
Police say the registry helped connect the suspect with the stolen weapons, all of which he had legally registered by forging documents.
"(The registry) gives us the ability to know who should possess a certain firearm, where it should be located, and who has it," Jantzen said, equating it to car that's registered vs. a car that isn't. "I know where to go to find the owner, or at least have a name."
Jantzen said officers access the database on a "very regular" basis, as they will typically check the registry prior to going to a residence to see if there are registered firearms in the home. Saanich News
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Chris
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Feb 22 2012, 08:30 AM
Post #69
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Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
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- ImaHeadaU
- Feb 22 2012, 07:18 AM
- Chris
- Feb 21 2012, 09:55 AM
Death of a Long-Gun Registry- Quote:
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Despite spending a whopping $2.7 billion on creating and running a long-gun registry, Canadians never reaped any benefits from the project.
There are some who would beg to differ. Frank J. Elsner, Chief of Police, Greater Sudbury Police Service - Quote:
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Contrary to the assertions of some, the registry has been operated effectively and efficiently since the Royal Canadian Mounted Police took over administration of the system in 2005. As well, the cost of maintaining the registry on an annual basis has vastly been reduced to approximately 4 million dollars a year.
Far more concerning, is hearing that Canadians have been told police don't need or use the registry. The fact is Canadian police officers query the Firearms Registry an average of 11,500 times a day, over 4,100,000 times a year, for many reasons:
It is used in criminal investigations to determine the origin of firearms used in crime and recovered from criminals;
It is used to identify and remove firearms from dangerous situations;
It is used to return recovered firearms to their rightful owners;
It is used to provide police officers with reliable information on who possesses firearms, the number of firearms and the make and calibre of firearms one is likely to encounter;
It is used to create accountability for the sale and disposition of firearms, which creates a trail to determine the origin of crime guns;
It is used to encourage responsible gun ownership and the safe storage of firearms.
The Registry has become an effective law enforcement tool for front line officers who put themselves at risk for community safety on a daily basis. As an example, Bail Safety Officers in our community, who are responsible to ensure anyone released on bail doesn't pose a further threat to our community while awaiting trial, use the Registry every single day. CBCFebruary 13, 2012 - Quote:
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Last week's arrest of an Island Outfitters employee who embezzled $250,000 worth of hunting supplies - including 159 firearms - is shedding light on Saanich police's use of the Canadian Firearms Registry.
"Long-gun registry checks were at the forefront of this investigation," Sgt. Dean Jantzen said. "We support these accessible databases ... when we're investigating instances like this."
Police say the registry helped connect the suspect with the stolen weapons, all of which he had legally registered by forging documents.
"(The registry) gives us the ability to know who should possess a certain firearm, where it should be located, and who has it," Jantzen said, equating it to car that's registered vs. a car that isn't. "I know where to go to find the owner, or at least have a name."
Jantzen said officers access the database on a "very regular" basis, as they will typically check the registry prior to going to a residence to see if there are registered firearms in the home. Saanich News Article I posted acknowldged it is used in the situations but provided data it wasn't used very successfully.
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