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| Want More New Jobs?; Enforce EPA Regulations! | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Nov 15 2011, 01:34 AM (669 Views) | |
| Brewster | Nov 15 2011, 01:34 AM Post #1 |
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Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
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AMEN. |
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| Pat | Nov 15 2011, 01:45 AM Post #2 |
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Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
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250,000 temporary jobs that last until the retrofit is complete. Compare that Brew to the jobs that will be sent overseas to countries with less stringent regulations. The United States continues to lead the world in environmental and safety measures, and the end result has been a loss of tens of millions of jobs overseas. |
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| Brewster | Nov 15 2011, 01:58 AM Post #3 |
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Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
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Any statistics to back up your story, Pat? I would suggest that those jobs are permanent, and if the US gets really good at this sort of thing, it will be good for the US trade balance - forever. Here's another piece to consider:
The US Right is trying to rewrite history, all for the benefit of the 1% |
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| Brewster | Nov 15 2011, 02:05 AM Post #4 |
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Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
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Here's another piece:
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| Brewster | Nov 15 2011, 02:14 AM Post #5 |
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Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
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An even more devastating quote:
Yeah, but who believes a bunch of Greenies out to kill our industry, right? So Just Who said this? That’s from David Crane, the CEO of one of America’s’s largest electric utilities. It produces power for some 20 million U.S. households, and over 90% of NRG’s power comes from natural gas and coal. But Crane says the future — the near future — will be different. So do you believe the Koch brothers, who are spending Billion$ to keep Americans buying oil from countries that don't like you very much and while supressing new green technology, or actual experts trying to prevent China from producing all the new tech, and eating your lunch? |
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| Pat | Nov 15 2011, 02:38 AM Post #6 |
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Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
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I'll see if I can come up with some stats related to how many jobs went off shore to avoid environmental regulations and new proposed regulations. The full time workers needed to monitor and service scrubbers add production costs to the finished product which is passed on in higher prices to the consumer. |
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| Brewster | Nov 15 2011, 02:44 AM Post #7 |
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Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
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Here's one more Pat, then I promise I'll stop:
The whole link, with much more to read. Edited by Brewster, Nov 15 2011, 02:45 AM.
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| Pat | Nov 15 2011, 03:14 AM Post #8 |
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Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
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I support reasonable environmental regulations Brew and always have. Anybody with the misfortune of having to travel to southern California in the 70's would be nuts to not agree with me. But the question in my mind is what is reasonable and what is overkill. Just living in a society is a health risk. You will never get away from environment issues if you choose to work and live in a society. What I found in googling is job losses extending back into the 70's related to logging, steel manufacturing, chemical manufacturing, and other heavy industrial industries. Good paying jobs. We live in an era of multi national corporatism where large companies simply choose where it is cost affective to them, not environmentally safe. You know this. Look how many jobs Canadian oil tar provided in Canada,jobs that would not pass muster down here. When you ask me to provide proof that old and new environmental regulations do not cause the loss of jobs here is unreasonable in a discussion when any American or Canadian should be aware of the literally thousands of news stories over the years on this subject. Go to the Washington coast and ask how many jobs were lost due to environmental regulations. They'll laugh in your face over such an inquiry. Same with mining, energy, or other industries. We sit on coal that cannot be used due to these laws while Chinia has no problem fueling factories with even dirtier coal than we use. This boils down to jobs Brew. Jobs being lost today. Sure there will be green jobs down the line and temporary jobs for updating factories, but when the multi national companies, those who employ millions of workers choose another country over updating another factory here, we lose. Canada will probably sell their dirty oil to China because rather than choose to refine and use the tar oil, in country, they choose jobs and profits over pollution...and our tree huggers won't let us do the same. When threads like this appear Brew, is it because you want to admonish the cleanest environmental economic heavyweight in the world and argue that we should do even more. I'm just curious. for the record, i oppose any new regulations until the rest of the countries in the world catch up with us, and that includes Canada that trails us by a mile. |
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| Brewster | Nov 15 2011, 03:54 AM Post #9 |
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Yes, but how many went overseas due to regulations? I know that many went overseas because of the high costs of health care, etc. in the US. That is emphasized by the fact that Canada has not has anywhere near the same level of exodus. (I find it ironic that the US Right keeps claiming that they want to add jobs while keeping down the cost of taxation, health care, etc, when the very reforms that will help the most are the ones they oppose the hardest.) Even worse, the US has not maintained its infrastucture, education standards, etc., to the point that major industries find it is extremely cost intensive to operate in the US. I'm not sure if the US is really cleaner overall than Canada, but I won't argue too hard. Our record is not a shining example of anything. For every word I post here "admonishing" anybody else, I post ten within Canada. But calling yourself "the cleanest environmental economic heavyweight in the world" is a real stretch. The bottom line is, everyone in the world has to pitch in, but the US and Canada are about the worst in the world per capita. This graph's a few years old, but the situation hasn't changed much - Canada's share would be a bit higher, and maybe China's a little worse now, although per capita they're still way behind us: ![]() But the real story here isn't about "Clean" or "Dirty", it's about jobs, and what's the best investment we can make long term. And Coal and Oil Ain't It! It's also about the US Right being bamboozled by Koch funded misrepresentations as they try desperately to protect their multi-billion$ in profits. Clean is good, but cheap energy is better. And when you talk long term, renewables are the cheapest. Better yet, not only do they save money, but they produce good, high paying jobs that can't be shipped overseas.
Edited by Brewster, Nov 15 2011, 04:07 AM.
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| Pat | Nov 15 2011, 04:05 AM Post #10 |
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Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
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I don't doubt that down the line there will be new jobs created from green industry. Right now is not the time to further disrupt industry. Once the rest of the world catches up, we can take another look at it. |
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