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Home grown terrorist plot foiled; good ole gun toting Georgia militia boys
Topic Started: Nov 3 2011, 06:33 AM (1,076 Views)
donsm60
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jcapps
Nov 4 2011, 04:06 AM
Mike
Nov 3 2011, 10:24 AM
My younger brother knows a fella that was 74 years old and upset over a repair bill for his car. He attempted to hire a hit man to do away with the repair shop owner.

The man he thought was a hitman turned out to be an undercover narcotics officer. An amount was agreed upon, a down payment made and the fella provided the officer with pictures of the victim and his home. The elderly fool is serving eight to fifteen years in the Arizona prison system.

Older folks can commit horrible crimes too.
exactly why we need gun control
Joe, almost every conceivable gun control law exists at the federal level and California has some of the stickiest on the state level. Have they done any good stopping the criminals from arming themselves there besides taking your rights away trying?… nope. All the feel good laws, like the federal assault weapons ban prove to do absolutely nothing (I’m sure you read the official FBI report after the sunset and would be happy to discuss it in detail with you). What the anti-gun folks don’t seem to grasp is the 99% of law-abiding people refuse to give into the mindset that handing more of our rights over is a solution to anything.

I know an argument is the bad guys break into houses and steal weapons, violent home invasions are normal here, they steal weapons and it does happen every day. You and I are young pups compared to most on the spin-off boards, on the opposite side of the country with totally different views on problem solving obviously.

How would this idea go over with the liberal mind, yours or anyone’s solving the gun problems? But you have to have a real grip on reality to answer it honestly, not the normal, just ‘strip rights’ first mentality from the 99% of good people because neither the guns or bad guys are going away no matter how you try to solve it.

Here goes;

If you are charged and found guilty without any reasonable doubt ‘what so ever & it’s irrefutable’, committing a crime with a gun… the normal everyday… carjackings, home invasions or robbing a business the penalty is death and carried out after sentencing wasting no time or money. I’d bet laws like that would really help in making people think twice and the 1% would make much better decisions.
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donsm60
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Thumper
Nov 3 2011, 11:21 PM
donsm60
Nov 3 2011, 10:07 AM
The men ‘are nut’s’ if the article is accurate. But don’t believe it won’t be a civil war before hardworking, tax paying… American citizens give up their right to defend themselves.

Now the Thumper loves the mooslums…
Don't you have a pool liner to install or something to do? Maybe you can go shoot some water melons but you'll need something bigger than your Daisey Red Ryder. :guns:
Thumper, actually I was at job today while the liner went in… we call it an interior finish down here, gunite construction yada yada… I’ll have to look into upgrading from a Red Rider one of these days and get ready for the days of researching depends diapers and nursing homes but have a few good years left before that… :teeth:
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Chris
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donsm60
Nov 4 2011, 08:34 AM
jcapps
Nov 4 2011, 04:06 AM
Mike
Nov 3 2011, 10:24 AM
My younger brother knows a fella that was 74 years old and upset over a repair bill for his car. He attempted to hire a hit man to do away with the repair shop owner.

The man he thought was a hitman turned out to be an undercover narcotics officer. An amount was agreed upon, a down payment made and the fella provided the officer with pictures of the victim and his home. The elderly fool is serving eight to fifteen years in the Arizona prison system.

Older folks can commit horrible crimes too.
exactly why we need gun control
Joe, almost every conceivable gun control law exists at the federal level and California has some of the stickiest on the state level. Have they done any good stopping the criminals from arming themselves there besides taking your rights away trying?… nope. All the feel good laws, like the federal assault weapons ban prove to do absolutely nothing (I’m sure you read the official FBI report after the sunset and would be happy to discuss it in detail with you). What the anti-gun folks don’t seem to grasp is the 99% of law-abiding people refuse to give into the mindset that handing more of our rights over is a solution to anything.

I know an argument is the bad guys break into houses and steal weapons, violent home invasions are normal here, they steal weapons and it does happen every day. You and I are young pups compared to most on the spin-off boards, on the opposite side of the country with totally different views on problem solving obviously.

How would this idea go over with the liberal mind, yours or anyone’s solving the gun problems? But you have to have a real grip on reality to answer it honestly, not the normal, just ‘strip rights’ first mentality from the 99% of good people because neither the guns or bad guys are going away no matter how you try to solve it.

Here goes;

If you are charged and found guilty without any reasonable doubt ‘what so ever & it’s irrefutable’, committing a crime with a gun… the normal everyday… carjackings, home invasions or robbing a business the penalty is death and carried out after sentencing wasting no time or money. I’d bet laws like that would really help in making people think twice and the 1% would make much better decisions.
Punish the criminal, oh my, liberal emotionalism can't handle that, and can't grasp more guns less crime.
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campingken
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Chris,

You like to ask for proof so please prove that more guns equal less crime. There are many factors that cause crime rates to raise and fall but I am unaware of any study that backs up your single reason assertion.
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Chris
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campingken
Nov 5 2011, 01:10 AM
Chris,

You like to ask for proof so please prove that more guns equal less crime. There are many factors that cause crime rates to raise and fall but I am unaware of any study that backs up your single reason assertion.
You mean you want me to do what you never do?

Frankly, I'm surprised you've never heard the claim before. It comes not from me but John R. Lott.

This is a little dated but still true: An interview with John R. Lott, Jr. author of More Guns, Less Crime: Understanding Crime and Gun Control Laws.

Here's the same argument more recently: More Guns Means Less Crime
Quote:
 
...Now I know that I was totally wrong about guns. Now I know that more guns means -- hold onto your seat -- less crime.

How can that be, when guns kill almost 30,000 Americans a year? Because while we hear about the murders and accidents, we don't often hear about the crimes stopped because would-be victims showed a gun and scared criminals away. Those thwarted crimes and lives saved usually aren't reported to police (sometimes for fear the gun will be confiscated), and when they are reported, the media tend to ignore them. No bang, no news.

This state of affairs produces a distorted public impression of guns. If you only hear about the crimes and accidents, and never about lives saved, you might think gun ownership is folly.

But, hey, if guns save lives, it logically follows that gun laws cost lives.

Suzanna Hupp and her parents were having lunch at Luby's cafeteria in Killeen, Texas, when a man began shooting diners with his handgun, even stopping to reload. Suzanna's parents were two of the 23 people killed. (Twenty more were wounded.)

Suzanna owned a handgun, but because Texas law at the time did not permit her to carry it with her, she left it in her car. She's confident that she could have stopped the shooting spree if she had her gun. (Texas has since changed its law.)

Today, 40 states issue permits to competent, law-abiding adults to carry concealed handguns (Vermont and Alaska have the most libertarian approach: no permit needed. Arizona is about to join that exclusive club.) Every time a carry law was debated, anti-gun activists predicted outbreaks of gun violence after fender-benders, card games and domestic quarrels.

What happened?

John Lott, in "More Guns, Less Crime," explains that crime fell by 10 percent in the year after the laws were passed. A reason for the drop in crime may have been that criminals suddenly worried that their next victim might be armed. Indeed, criminals in states with high civilian gun ownership were the most worried about encountering armed victims.

In Canada and Britain, both with tough gun-control laws, almost half of all burglaries occur when residents are home. But in the United States, where many households contain guns, only 13 percent of burglaries happen when someone's at home....


No can you do what you asked me to do and present a fact-based logical argument against that?

Edited by Chris, Nov 5 2011, 01:23 AM.
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campingken
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Sorry but the opinion of the author John L Lott is no more valid than yours or my opinion. I spent a career in law enforcement and am not aware of gun ownership effecting crime rates one way or another. That said I support the right of citizens to be armed but this right should also come with the responsibility to be trained in the use of your weapon and the laws of self defense.

Yesterday I posted the results of a poll and who conducted it. So your "never do" assertation is neither honest nor accurate.
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Chris
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campingken
Nov 5 2011, 04:13 AM
Sorry but the opinion of the author John L Lott is no more valid than yours or my opinion. I spent a career in law enforcement and am not aware of gun ownership effecting crime rates one way or another. That said I support the right of citizens to be armed but this right should also come with the responsibility to be trained in the use of your weapon and the laws of self defense.

Yesterday I posted the results of a poll and who conducted it. So your "never do" assertation is neither honest nor accurate.
Lott doesn't merely give his opinion but provides data to support his conclusions. And it is arguable, but I didn't think you would argue with facts or logic, and you haven't.

I agree, as dons' sig reads, the best gun control is proper training and knowledge of the law.


Polls aren't arguments, ken.
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donsm60
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Chris, reading Ken the man is very reasonable with boots on the ground knowledge like most of the LE I know and appreciate his input, it’s not jacked-up by any political BS on a very serious subject.
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Chris
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Right, I agree on his point about training. But outright dismissal of Lott's studies on this is political.
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donsm60
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That’s between you two Chris, the reality here tonight is my Glock is off and the week ended pretty good and ready to just chill for a while.
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