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Koch Brothers pay to show global warming is real
Topic Started: Oct 31 2011, 08:01 PM (4,893 Views)
Chris
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Thumper
Nov 13 2011, 11:25 PM
campingken
Nov 13 2011, 01:23 PM
The weather has changed, mostly for the worse, over the past several decades. The doughts and floods are much more severe and frequent. If you wish to believe that 7 Billion and counting people have no effect on the weather that is your choice.

It took nature billions of years to put carbon energy into the earth and man has released a good share of it in 100 years. All actions have reactions.
Bout sums it up Ken.
Go back to the start of this thread. Mike brought up the recent drought. I presented data showing it's been worse in the past. This confuses weather with climate.



"If you wish to believe that 7 Billion and counting people have no effect on the weather that is your choice."

No one has argued that man doesn't affect climate.



And that sums it up?
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There have always been extreme weather events. What seems to be changing, is the frequency of them.

On the other hand communication & reporting are better these days, so I keep an open mind on this one, but they do sure seem to be more frequent.
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Quote:
 
I gave my sources. You even ad homed them, remember? Their source is BEST data.


I think the problem here is you are focused on pictures, graphs, and not the data itself. I've posted several sources of various scientists discussing the fact that according to BEST data for over a decade temps have simply leveled off. The only thing some scientists question is whether it's enough data at this point to draw conclusions. Now if you want to question the data, go ahead, but then go beyond the question and show that there's something wrong with what they're looking at, and realize that undermining BEST data undermines the same data you're using.


Once again you are attempting to divert from your sources. The statement "Their source is BEST data", does not mean squat unless you reveal who "they" are. Anyone can take a bunch of statistics & bend them to their own interpretation. Unless you tell me who is doing the interpreting I have no idea if they are qualified to interpret it. It's like saying "Jews proven genetically inferior? It makes a big difference if it came from an Israeli scientist or Joseph Mengele.

You are obviously trying to hide something. Which is why, I presume, you did not link those graphs to their original source but uploaded them to a photo dump site instead.
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Chris
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telcoman
Nov 14 2011, 12:57 AM
Quote:
 
I gave my sources. You even ad homed them, remember? Their source is BEST data.


I think the problem here is you are focused on pictures, graphs, and not the data itself. I've posted several sources of various scientists discussing the fact that according to BEST data for over a decade temps have simply leveled off. The only thing some scientists question is whether it's enough data at this point to draw conclusions. Now if you want to question the data, go ahead, but then go beyond the question and show that there's something wrong with what they're looking at, and realize that undermining BEST data undermines the same data you're using.


Once again you are attempting to divert from your sources. The statement "Their source is BEST data", does not mean squat unless you reveal who "they" are. Anyone can take a bunch of statistics & bend them to their own interpretation. Unless you tell me who is doing the interpreting I have no idea if they are qualified to interpret it. It's like saying "Jews proven genetically inferior? It makes a big difference if it came from an Israeli scientist or Joseph Mengele.

You are obviously trying to hide something. Which is why, I presume, you did not link those graphs to their original source but uploaded them to a photo dump site instead.
I gave you my sources. You ad homed them. Forget? It's all BEST data. So stop making up nonsense, unless you can show distortion, your innuendo is the only diversion at this point. More substance, less bluster please.
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You have not told me the source of your graphs. Stop trying to weasel out. Until you do, they are absolutely worthless. If you can't back up the source of your argument, then you have no Argument. Second hand info, does not cut it in science. QED.
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Chris
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telcoman
Nov 14 2011, 01:11 AM
You have not told me the source of your graphs. Stop trying to weasel out. Until you do, they are absolutely worthless. If you can't back up the source of your argument, then you have no Argument. Second hand info, does not cut it in science. QED.
I told you and you attacked the organization, go back and look.

So, Telco, since you want to be scientific, what are your specific charges of data distortion? And what evidence do you base it on?
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Chris
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Here is what you're now questioning, telco:

"This graph shows that the trend of the last decade is absolutely flat, with no increase at all – though the levels of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere have carried on rising relentlessly.
‘This is nowhere near what the climate models were predicting,’ Prof Curry said. ‘Whatever it is that’s going on here, it doesn’t look like it’s being dominated by CO2.’"

Your response to that earlier was "I have no problem with Judith Curry, at least she is climatologist."

Why would you question her, she's a member of the BEST team.

But now you question with innuendo where she got her data?

This is absurd on the face of it.
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I am still waiting for source of your graphs. I am well aware of Dr. Curry's OPINION. What I want to see is WHO produced the graphs you posted and what their qualifications are. Why is that so very difficult? If they came form Dr. Curry please provide the link to where she posted them. That should not be hard. I emphasized what I am asking for in red since I am wondering if I am being precise enough in what i want.

If there is no data distortion in them then you should have no problem in telling me where they came from.
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Chris
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If I show you that I already gave you my source and that you commented on that already will you admit you're willfully lying?


"I am well aware of Dr. Curry's OPINION."

Curry, climatologist and chair of the School of Earth and Atmospheric Sciences at the Georgia Institute of Technology, and member of the BEST team, commented on the data in question, as I've cited and you accepted. Muller, professor of physics at the University of California, Berkeley, and head of the BEST team, commented on the data, as cited. And yet you suggest distortion? You question the data? But cannot specify what it is you question? Pure innuenda, rhetorical sophistry.


Anyway, say I have not supplied my source again and you will be shown a liar.
Edited by Chris, Nov 14 2011, 04:59 AM.
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colo_crawdad
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Jim Miller
Nov 12 2011, 09:01 PM
Aw, jeez. Brewster is back fo another beating.
That would certainly be something new on here.
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