Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
Koch Brothers pay to show global warming is real
Topic Started: Oct 31 2011, 08:01 PM (4,894 Views)
Chris
Member Avatar
Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
[ * ]
"You have still not stated where your graphs came from, and just what data they are based upon"

Oh, come on, telco, I have provided sources for graphs and data. BEST. Same place you get yours.

Games of gotcha are unimpressive.


Your latest graph includes some of the missing data. It clearly shows the beginning of the flattening out of temps--while CO2 is dramatically rising.

Deal with the data. Explain why in the face of rising CO2 temps are not rising. That is what bruce's simple model predicts.
Edited by Chris, Nov 13 2011, 08:54 AM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Chris
Member Avatar
Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
[ * ]
This, your graph as well, also shows the leveling off of temps:

Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Deleted User
Deleted User

Quote:
 
This, your graph as well, also shows the leveling off of temps:


Sure, who knows why, there are other influences such as volcanic eruptions which can suppress temperatures for a period, but the overall trend has not changed. It is interesting that is covers a period (30's - 70s) when the increase level of dirty industrialization was prevalent, which was releasing large numbers of particulates into the air which have a temporary cooling effect.

Where on BEST's website did you get your graphs, I cannot find them there? Please provide the link. If they produced them, they should be there. The source of the images you posted, is certainly not their website, I checked. It's a photobucket type location, not a web site. If you can tell me the source I can address them, otherwise anyone could have produced them.
Quote Post Goto Top
 
Chris
Member Avatar
Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
[ * ]
telcoman
Nov 13 2011, 09:18 AM
Quote:
 
This, your graph as well, also shows the leveling off of temps:


Sure, who knows why, there are other influences such as volcanic eruptions which can suppress temperatures for a period, but the overall trend has not changed. It is interesting that is covers a period (30's - 70s) when the increase level of dirty industrialization was prevalent, which was releasing large numbers of particulates into the air which have a temporary cooling effect.

Where on BEST's website did you get your graphs, I cannot find them there? Please provide the link. If they produced them, they should be there. The source of the images you posted, is certainly not their website, I checked. It's a photobucket type location, not a web site. If you can tell me the source I can address them, otherwise anyone could have produced them.
"Sure, who knows why, there are other influences such as volcanic eruptions which can suppress temperatures for a period...."

As cited earlier: "...she [Curry] added, in the wake of the unexpected global warming standstill, many climate scientists who had previously rejected sceptics’ arguments were now taking them much more seriously.
They were finally addressing questions such as the influence of clouds, natural temperature cycles and solar radiation – as they should have done, she said, a long time ago."

"but the overall trend has not changed."

As cited before: "This graph shows that the trend of the last decade is absolutely flat, with no increase at all – though the levels of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere have carried on rising relentlessly.
‘This is nowhere near what the climate models were predicting,’ Prof Curry said. ‘Whatever it is that’s going on here, it doesn’t look like it’s being dominated by CO2.’"



I provided links to all I have posted. The main data is BEST data. Do you question their data?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Deleted User
Deleted User

I am not questioning their data, I am questioning yours. You refuse to give the source of your graphs and how they managed to interpret Berkeley's data to come up with them. Why is that?

I have no problem with Judith Curry, at least she is climatologist. Her opinions are not in mainstream of the field, but she is certainly entitled to her opinion and questioning results is normal scientific practice. No one is insinuating that there are not many factors involved and CO2 is just one of them. However, that does not change the overall evidence that we are a major factor in the changing climate on this planet, which is the main point of all of this.
Quote Post Goto Top
 
Chris
Member Avatar
Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
[ * ]
telcoman
Nov 13 2011, 10:23 AM
I am not questioning their data, I am questioning yours. You refuse to give the source of your graphs and how they managed to interpret Berkeley's data to come up with them. Why is that?

I have no problem with Judith Curry, at least she is climatologist. Her opinions are not in mainstream of the field, but she is certainly entitled to her opinion and questioning results is normal scientific practice. No one is insinuating that there are not many factors involved and CO2 is just one of them. However, that does not change the overall evidence that we are a major factor in the changing climate on this planet, which is the main point of all of this.
My data? I don't have data, nor do you. BEST has data.

"You refuse to give the source..."

I gave my sources.

"I have no problem with Judith Curry, at least she is climatologist. Her opinions are not in mainstream of the field, but she is certainly entitled to her opinion and questioning results is normal scientific practice. No one is insinuating that there are not many factors involved and CO2 is just one of them."

Right, on that point we agree, it is very complex, as NGC stated way back at the beginning of this. But, uh, take that up with Brewster who does argue it is simply man causing CO2 rise causing temp rise, and dismisses Curry with mere ad hom because she points out data that his hypothesis fails to explain, rising CO2 without rising temps. As cited above "...he [Muller] admitted it was true that the BEST data suggested that world temperatures have not risen for about 13 years. But in his view, this might not be ‘statistically significant’, although, he added, it was equally possible that it was – a statement which left other scientists mystified."

"However, that does not change the overall evidence that we are a major factor in the changing climate on this planet, which is the main point of all of this."

Actually, it wasn't. NGC posted a story of Muller presenting his view of the data and I posted Curry's view. Those two views are presented in the top/bottom graph. So far nothing has been discussed regarding man's contribution as one of as you say "many factors involved".
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Deleted User
Deleted User

Quote:
 
My data? I don't have data, nor do you. BEST has data.

"You refuse to give the source..."

I gave my sources.


My source is "BEST"s own website. It's their data, so they ARE the source. Those graphs you produced do not appear to be theirs, and you refuse to say where they came from, so you can hardly blame me for dismissing them.

So once again where do they come from? A link to the original location will be sufficient, not an upload to a photo dump site.
Quote Post Goto Top
 
campingken
No Avatar
Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
[ * ]
The weather has changed, mostly for the worse, over the past several decades. The doughts and floods are much more severe and frequent. If you wish to believe that 7 Billion and counting people have no effect on the weather that is your choice.

It took nature billions of years to put carbon energy into the earth and man has released a good share of it in 100 years. All actions have reactions.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Chris
Member Avatar
Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
[ * ]
telcoman
Nov 13 2011, 12:04 PM
Quote:
 
My data? I don't have data, nor do you. BEST has data.

"You refuse to give the source..."

I gave my sources.


My source is "BEST"s own website. It's their data, so they ARE the source. Those graphs you produced do not appear to be theirs, and you refuse to say where they came from, so you can hardly blame me for dismissing them.

So once again where do they come from? A link to the original location will be sufficient, not an upload to a photo dump site.
I gave my sources. You even ad homed them, remember? Their source is BEST data.


I think the problem here is you are focused on pictures, graphs, and not the data itself. I've posted several sources of various scientists discussing the fact that according to BEST data for over a decade temps have simply leveled off. The only thing some scientists question is whether it's enough data at this point to draw conclusions. Now if you want to question the data, go ahead, but then go beyond the question and show that there's something wrong with what they're looking at, and realize that undermining BEST data undermines the same data you're using.
Edited by Chris, Nov 13 2011, 11:19 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Thumper
Member Avatar
Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
[ * ]
campingken
Nov 13 2011, 01:23 PM
The weather has changed, mostly for the worse, over the past several decades. The doughts and floods are much more severe and frequent. If you wish to believe that 7 Billion and counting people have no effect on the weather that is your choice.

It took nature billions of years to put carbon energy into the earth and man has released a good share of it in 100 years. All actions have reactions.
Bout sums it up Ken.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Fire And Ice General Discussion · Next Topic »
Add Reply

Website Traffic Analysis