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| Three And A Half Days | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Oct 28 2011, 12:42 AM (1,063 Views) | |
| Chris | Oct 30 2011, 11:46 PM Post #31 |
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Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
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Problem is, Tom, you bought into the liberal fascist lies. That I see as a problem general to America. We vote the so-called right into office, they eventually fail, so we vote the left in, and they fail, but we learn nothing, endlessly switching back and forth like a flag flapping in the breeze, never recognizing there ain't a lick of difference between them. |
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| tomdrobin | Oct 31 2011, 12:00 AM Post #32 |
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Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
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I would agree there isn't a lot of difference, just the degree of severity. I think the Republicans for all practical purposes are owned by their wealthy sponsors. And, the democrats to a lesser degree and also beholden to union interests. Of course it's a pendulum, always politically to the right, and then to the left, as each goes too far in the direction it has taken the country. We saw this happen in the LBJ "great society" years and the creation of the welfare state. Then the pendulum swung the other way, and as usual too far to the right culminating in the corporatism that led us to the deregulation and resultant financial meltdown and things like the citizen united decision by the SCOTUS. I saw that as a time to swing the other way for a while. But, the big monied interests weren't about to have their party interrupted with a dose of of liberal policies and liberals nominated to the supreme court and cranked up the paranoia machine. The result is now, is gridlock, and a flip flop left and right almost every election. The country, the citizens and the economy suffer the consequences. The only way I see to fix it is to get the big money out of politics by public financed campaigns and severe restriction on lobbying activities. The chance of that happening is of course near zero. Things have to get a lot worse before the people say "enough is enough". While OWS may be a fringe movement for the most part, it will eventually go mainstream. |
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| Chris | Oct 31 2011, 12:20 AM Post #33 |
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Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
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Dems are just as much owned as Reps. Corporatism is the result of regulation. "The result is now, is gridlock, and a flip flop left and right almost every election. The country, the citizens and the economy suffer the consequences." Exactly. "The only way I see to fix it is to get the big money out of politics by public financed campaigns and severe restriction on lobbying activities." Disagree. Businesses are the public and have the right to lobby. Only way to change things is to regulate government, put the power back in the hands of people. Force Congress to be transparent, make public the bills they proposes and the earmarks they add and the connections with special interests and lobbyists, for them to read the bills and demonstrate constitutionality, make them accountable by posting their rhetoric next to their voting records, and much more in this direction. Edited by Chris, Oct 31 2011, 12:21 AM.
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| Chris | Oct 31 2011, 01:19 AM Post #34 |
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Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
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It all goes back to a question I keep asking, Tom, where to corporations get their power? |
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| tomdrobin | Oct 31 2011, 11:27 AM Post #35 |
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Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
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Money is power. I'm not certainly not against corporations, they are the engines that drive economic progress. What I am against is corporations, individuals, organizations and unions using their wealth to enfluence politicians in an attempt to tweak the rules to their advantage. We should have a government by and for the people. By "for" I mean government works to protect the interests of all the people, not just the highly successful few. With the cost of getting elected so high, it is nearly impossible for a politician to get elected and still be independant of those who provide the financial support. Add, that to the revolving door between congressional staffs and lobbying firms, and while it may not be illegal, it sure corrupts the democratic process. |
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| Chris | Oct 31 2011, 07:23 PM Post #36 |
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Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
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Still didn't really answer the question, where do corporations get their power? You still want to blame them alone, but while they share in the blame, they do only what comes natural, you want certain privileges, you want restrictions against competitors, want to limit or level the playing field in your favor, people seek political means because it's easier and available. The problem though, the source, the incentive comes from government, a corrupt government that in exchange for money and other favors keeping politicians in office hands out power to them, the power we give government to protect our liberties and interests, handed out to special interests. The only solution I see to this problem is to reduce the size, the power of government, and to regulate what remains. End crony capitalism. |
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I used to buy into the same crap you right wingers love to defend. But, I started having second thoughts at the start of Bush 2nd term. And, the 2008 financial meltdown was the straw that broke the camels back. We have been decieved. And conservative has been highjacked by those who use those values to maintain support for their corporatists ways.



10:45 PM Jul 11
