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| Liberal Conceit And The Havoc It Has Wrought On Our Nation | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Oct 21 2011, 06:29 PM (1,459 Views) | |
| Pat | Oct 23 2011, 12:20 AM Post #21 |
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Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
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The stimulus that Obama used ended up for the most part in propping up government jobs nationwide, not addressing the job losses in the private sector. How was that plan going to give a temporary burst to the private sector which had been decimated by the recession? For those complaining about Jim's anti Obama posts, he addressed that months ago by reminding the liberals here that all he was doing was giving them a dose of what was posted about Bush by the left while he was president. Once Obama leaves office, Jim will back off on his current campaign and begin defending the new president against the liberal assault sure to come. He'll blame anything the liberals are complaining about on the previous Obama administration. lol What's that old saying--what goes around comes around. I don't know what value it brings to the conversation by bringing Austrian or Keysonian philosophy to the mix, other than for pointing out possible past economic cycles and how past policies were either a success or failure. There are new factors in each economic cycle that affect policy choices by present day economists. At some point, the left is going to have to grasp the failure present in Obama policy. The proof is in the pudding as mom used to say. Obama seems to want to mirror European policies which have proven to be wrong. Big and ever bigger government work forces are not the answer. You end up bleeding the private sector in taxes to pay what amounts to ever less efficient dead weight in the economy. And you end up with the private sector competing with the government on many levels, as the government extends it's mandate into private sector jobs. Plus, how does the private sector compete with the government for capital? Obama has proven to be a big government quasi socialist. He has also been one of the bigger whiners I can remember. I can't recall a recent president crying so much about congress and complaining when they exercise their prerogative as a check and balance against abuse by another branch. Congress holds the purse strings and will not go along again with a stimulus for jobs that ends up being further growth in government. Edited by Pat, Oct 23 2011, 12:23 AM.
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| Chris | Oct 23 2011, 12:30 AM Post #22 |
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Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
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"I don't know what value it brings to the conversation by bringing Austrian or Keysonian philosophy to the mix, other than for pointing out possible past economic cycles and how past policies were either a success or failure. There are new factors in each economic cycle that affect policy choices by present day economists." Because Tom claimed most economists agree with stimulus spending when it's only neo-Keynesians and not even Keynes who argued that. Very few government policies, left or right, have been based on anything other than mistaken neo-Keynesian ideas. Edited by Chris, Oct 23 2011, 12:31 AM.
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| Pat | Oct 23 2011, 12:38 AM Post #23 |
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Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
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Oh, ok, I must have missed that point. Sorry. You're right Chris, opposing economists with different trains of thought have spoken up, yet been ignored by Obama. For a guy who claims he wants to work with both sides, have we ever seen a president so entrenched in philosophy that he ignores the voices around him who object with reasonable economic arguments? My question that never gets answered by the left is this. How big must government grow until it's too big? How many more government workers leaning on the proverbial shovel will it take before enough is enough? |
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| Chris | Oct 23 2011, 12:47 AM Post #24 |
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Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
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Problem is, Bush was a Kenynesian too, just about everyone since and including FDR has been, unwittingly or not--mostly unwittingly. About the only exception was Reagan who was influenced by Austrians like Mises and Hayek, but had to compromise with a Democratic Congress. If the left doesn't answer your question I'd suggest reading Hobbes or better Hegal who considered the state God, from Grundlinien der Philosophie des Rechts: "The state in and by itself is the ethical whole, the actualisation of freedom; and it is an absolute end of reason that freedom should be actual. The state is mind on earth and consciously realising itself there. In nature, on the other hand, mind actualises itself only as its own other, as mind asleep. Only when it is present in consciousness, when it knows itself as a really existent object, is it the state. In considering freedom, the starting-point must be not individuality, the single self-consciousness, but only the essence of self-consciousness; for whether man knows it or not, this essence is externally realised as a self-subsistent power in which single individuals are only moments. The march of God in the world, that is what the state is." Edited by Chris, Oct 23 2011, 12:48 AM.
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| campingken | Oct 23 2011, 12:49 AM Post #25 |
Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
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Here in Washington most of the current job losses are government, state, county, city, employees. Government is actually shrinking. However every lay off in the public sector probably adds another 2-3 in the public sector. The rugged individual and self made man is a myth in a nation with a population of 310,000,000. |
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| Jim Miller | Oct 23 2011, 01:07 AM Post #26 |
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Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
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I will be attacking the stupid moves that the next president makes also. I doubt that there will be any liberal assault as they are too lazy. The libs like others to do their bidding. |
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| campingken | Oct 23 2011, 01:23 AM Post #27 |
Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
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The funniest thing of this forum is Jim, a man who could be the cover boy for "Liberal Living" magazine ranting about liberals... |
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| colo_crawdad | Oct 23 2011, 01:50 AM Post #28 |
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Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
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Anyone else here see that statement as a gross exaggeration and over generalization? I wonder at its purpose,other than to attempt to irritate. In some circles that would be considered trolling. |
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| Chris | Oct 23 2011, 02:25 AM Post #29 |
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Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
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Argumentum ad logicam. |
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| Chris | Oct 23 2011, 03:08 AM Post #30 |
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Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
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It's modeled on religion--Hobbes needed a replacement for the divine right of kings--and the idea of creating heaven on earth. Instead of priests and pastors we get politicians remaking society in their vision of virtue. |
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