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| Does anyone believe in hell anymore? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Aug 16 2009, 04:59 AM (2,834 Views) | |
| ngc1514 | Aug 16 2009, 04:59 AM Post #1 |
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Found this in today's Atlanta paper:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2009-08-01-hell-damnation_N.htm |
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| Banandangees | Aug 16 2009, 11:05 PM Post #2 |
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I suppose that if you believe the Bible is "the word of God", believe that the writings are "God inspired," believe that Jesus actually existed and was who he said he was and believe the words he spoke then I suppose you'd have to believe that there is some sort of hell out there. Apparently the Koran also speaks of a hell. I'm not sure how hard or easy it is to stay out of. When man starts interpreting the Bible in their own form ..... for others to live by (as St. Augustine did) .... then things tend to become more complicated (purgatory). Since I believe that Jesus did exist and was who he said he was, I try to invision a heaven or hell and the way you get to either by what I understand what the Bible's words indicates that Jesus said rather than what any denomination might say.... realizing that the Bible's words were interpreted, transcribed by men like St. Augustine, those who wrote the King James version and scholars who broke it down into modern day language. You have to have a lot of faith in something. But maybe having faith is the tricky part. Edited by Banandangees, Aug 16 2009, 11:19 PM.
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| ngc1514 | Aug 17 2009, 12:58 AM Post #3 |
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That's a whole lotta stuff to believe on virtually no evidence, Ban. |
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| Brewster | Aug 17 2009, 01:38 AM Post #4 |
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If there were solid evidence, then it wouldn't be a belief, would it? It would be knowledge - a science. On Edit: Then, of course, we could have a whole new group of whackos denying THAT, just like Global Warming and Evolution...
Edited by Brewster, Aug 17 2009, 01:42 AM.
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| Mike | Aug 17 2009, 02:37 AM Post #5 |
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You might consider hell as you would physics in the natural world NGC. Things seek their own level... To answer your question...yes. Catholics believe that all those who die in personal mortal sin, as enemies of God, and unworthy of eternal life, will be severely punished by God after death. They will not reside in heaven, but rather in hell...forever removed from the presence of God. |
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| ngc1514 | Aug 17 2009, 02:39 AM Post #6 |
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Chris (Requiescat in pace) mentioned a book by Bart D. Ehrman called Misquoting Jesus: The Story Behind Who Changed the Bible and Why. Serving as an introduction (at a very basic level) to textual criticism and, specifically, textual criticism of the New Testament, we come across the strange fact that there are more textual "variation" in the manuscripts for the New Testament than there are words in the book itself! Ehrman gives a number of between 300,000 and 400,000 variations. While most of these are minor transcription errors, many are major rewritings of the text over the passage of centuries. The thrust of his argument is that, lacking the autographic manuscripts - the ones actually written by the authors of the books of the NT - we have no way of knowing what those manuscripts actually said. Short book and quick read, but well worth the time. There is no reason solid evidence for SOME parts of the bible couldn't exist without still needing a touch of faith to believe other parts. A young earth, for example, wouldn't necessarily mean that some god created everything, but might lend some support to the tales told in Genesis. It would still take faith to go from the young earth to "In the beginning..." The problems come when there is NO evidence for so many of the biblical tales. |
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| ngc1514 | Aug 17 2009, 02:43 AM Post #7 |
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So, for those who don't believe in god on this plane of existence, being "removed from the presence of God" is punishment... how?
Does this mean no hellfire and brimstone? |
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| Mike | Aug 17 2009, 08:41 AM Post #8 |
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I think this might clarify it a bit more for you... from a Catholic perspective NGC: http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/p122a5p1.htm |
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| ngc1514 | Aug 17 2009, 08:57 AM Post #9 |
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Might make a great science fiction movie, Mike. |
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| Banandangees | Aug 17 2009, 09:05 AM Post #10 |
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I'd rather that there be no hell. But for some, there has been "fire and brimstone" here on earth, so why would it be a stretch for us to consider that there very well could be a hell of that type when all is done? But then there is the "love" of a creator, how could a God of love send one of his creation to a hell .... or is it that God doesn't send us to such a place, but rather that we send ourselves by the independent free will that he allowed us? Do we really have avenues of choice that determines our fate? For a Christian (I understand from reading the words of Jesus) that he died for man's sins that we may be saved from a hell and that all we have to do is believe in him as savior. But, must we also follow him and if so, how far and to what extent? Or, must we have "faith" or show faith? The NT says that we can't "earn" our way to heaven by deeds alone; but, that our deeds reflect how much faith we really have. Faith in the absense of scientific proof. If you have facts, evidence and proof..... you don't need faith. But, the NT says "it is by faith that we are justified." If what the Bible says turns out to be true and in the meantime we are waiting for "evidence" (which would negate faith) we may find out just how "hot" hell is. Problem is, we're probably never going to find the evidence we need that would remove all doubt. That's one "hell" of a big conundrum.
Edited by Banandangees, Aug 17 2009, 03:06 PM.
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