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| Nature has a way of getting arounds things... | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Aug 4 2009, 11:13 PM (1,116 Views) | |
| Mike | Aug 7 2009, 07:00 AM Post #11 |
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I never thought of the problem dealing with the energy that would still exist from the mass. I like the concept of the mass driver and wonder if anything along that line is being developed. |
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| ngc1514 | Aug 7 2009, 07:30 AM Post #12 |
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Mass drivers - at least in smaller sizes - are not difficult to build. In space, with the very cold temperatures, they might be made even more efficient with the use of superconducting magnets to drive the mass. I think the bigger problem would be the establishment of a robotic factory capable of mining material, forming it into a shape suitable for launching with a mass driver, fabricating the magnetic rings needed to drive the mass (if it's plain old non-magnetic rock like basalts, you need to wrap iron bands around the projectile to give the magnets something to pull) and the rest of the functions necessary to the project. Establishing such a factory on an asteroid is beyond our spacefaring capabilities for the foreseeable future. |
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| Mike | Aug 7 2009, 11:38 AM Post #13 |
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I read an article once years ago that listed the quantim (I like that word) jumps in technology throughout history. From horse and buggy to steam and gasoline powered machines. From lanterns to electrical lights. An evolution if you will of knowledge. I find that not only amazing but believe that as in the past, we will continue in the future to have these big jumps in knowledge and technology. With that said, space exploration and factories on astroids might not be as far in the future as we now believe. |
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| ngc1514 | Aug 7 2009, 09:54 PM Post #14 |
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Evolutionary changes and quantum jumps are completely different. A quantum jump, in science, means an electron is in this orbit and then is suddenly in a higher or lower energy orbit without ever moving through the space in between. Technology evolves. None of the changes you mentioned suddenly appeared out of nowhere, but were. as you said evolutionary changes that were based on work done before. The move from lanterns to lights was a long, technological path where A reached Z by going through B, C, D...etc. An electron goes from energy state A to energy state Z without going through the intermediate energy states B, C, D...etc. All this may seem pedantic, but using words like quantum jump to describe non-quantum phenomena makes appreciating just how weird the quantum world actually is far more difficult. Evolutionary is a far more accurate term to describe the process. It's like the problem of putting a man on Mars. There are no theoretical underpinnings yet known that suggest new forms of propulsive power. Getting from Earth to Mars still requires the utilization of Newton's Third Law of actions and reactions. To move Mass A from Point A to Point B requires throwing Mass C in the opposite direction. That's why the Space Shuttle has all those big fuel tanks. All that fuel is doing is propelling its own mass out through the rocket engine nozzles at high speed. It is the reaction that causes the action of the shuttle heading off to space. Science fiction writers like to talk about inertia-less drives, but the concept doesn't even make sense under our current theories. Same goes for zero point energy, anti-gravity systems, Casimir energy systems, worm holes, warp drives and the whole shebang dearly loved by the sci-fi fans. I'm hoping to live long enough to see humans land on Mars, but it's going to be the same basic technologies used to put man on the moon that gets us there. I'd dearly love to see something like you mention take place, but am not holding my breath. |
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| Mike | Aug 8 2009, 01:08 AM Post #15 |
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Yes, I plead quilty to a play on words. If as you say, in quantum terms, something can be one place and then instantly be in another place, then that might be the process that space travel becomes possible. How? only God knows, but if the process exists, we might be able to harness it in some manner as we have wind, gravity, tides, solar, oil..and instantly arrive at a destination such as Mars. |
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| ngc1514 | Aug 8 2009, 02:03 AM Post #16 |
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If you think that's interesting... try quantum entanglement where two particles which have been entangled - been so closely involved that the two particles can be described by a single wave equation - are separated by the diameter of the universe, twiddling one will twiddle the other at the same time! Unfortunately, Relativity steps in and says that information can not travel faster than the speed of light. So, while you may twiddle one particle and affect the other, it will be affected in a random fashion that can not be predicted. Entanglement is demonstrated, but information is not passed. The same obtains for quantum jumps. Since electrons are probability waves, there is a high probability the jump will be what is expected by the wave function of the particle. One photon absorbed and the electron will just to the next higher shell with a high degree of probability. But it might not and it might just jump to somewhere else in the universe with a very low degree of probability. This is for a single electron. Beaming would not be very exciting if you weren't sure all your parts would end up in the same location! |
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| Mike | Aug 8 2009, 04:40 AM Post #17 |
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LOL. Are you saying that I might be spreading myself a little thin if i were to attempt to beam myself to Mars? I wonder what other strange and unsuspected happening take place in the universe around us? |
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| ngc1514 | Aug 8 2009, 05:11 AM Post #18 |
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If they are unsuspected, your question can't be answered. Logical empiricism says the only things worth talking about are those that have been experienced. |
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