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Finally! An end to the "We never reached the moon" crud
Topic Started: Jul 18 2009, 05:16 AM (1,108 Views)
ngc1514
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There is always a "bigger picture," Mike. Not surprisingly, it always seems to support the vast accumulation of wealth rather than the other way 'round.

What do you think Jesus would have said?
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Mike
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I think a more useful question would be.."what would Jesus say today". I think he would approach this on a case by case basis, rather than lump all Church properties together. I'm sure there are some instances, where assets could be sold and the funds put to better use.
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ngc1514
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Just started reading The First Crusade: A New History: The Roots of Conflict between Christianity and Islam by Thomas Asbridge.

It's another interesting look at what the Church has been able to justify (in its own mind, at least) over the centuries. Gregory VII gets Henry IV to stand in the snow for a couple of days and the next thing you know... Urban II is sending armies to Jerusalem.

As history, I think I still prefer Zoe Oldenbourg's The Crusades.
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Mike
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The crusades came about by a very simple notion. To drive infidels, which included muslims out of the Holy lands.

It has been customary to describe the Crusades as eight in number, the first 1095-1101; the second, headed by Louis V11, 1145-47; the third, conducted by Philip Augustus and Richard Coeur-de-Lion, 1188-92; the fourth...during which Constantinople was taken, 1204, the fifth.. which included the conquest of Damietta, 1217; the the sixth, in which Frederick 11 took part (1228-29; also Thibaud de Champagn and Richard of Cornwall (1239); the seventh, led by St. Louis, 1270.

The division above is arbitrary and excludes many important expeditions, among them those of the fourteenth and fifteenth centuries. Crusading continued until the end of the seventeenth century... with the crusade of Lepanto occurring in 1571... that of Hungary in 1664... and the crusade of the Duke of Burgundy to Candia, in 1669.

And I agree it is filled with intrigue and standing in the snow for a couple of days was tame compared to some of the treatment handed out. It makes having my ears pulled by the Sisters to be more like a love pat, than punishment... :smile:
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ngc1514
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You left out the disastrous People's Crusade lead by Peter the Hermit. It preceded the 1st Crusade by a few months and lead to the death of thousands of the unprepared and ill-equipped who followed Peter.

And let's not forget the Children's Crusade of the early 13th Century from which, tradition holds, many of the children were sold into slavery when they reached Marseilles.
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I could have faked a better picture than that one using photoshop. With the improvements in special effects since the 60's the faking of the next moon mission will be even easier.
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