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It's God and Nature's Realm; But more posts from non-believers
Topic Started: Jun 17 2009, 12:43 PM (933 Views)
Tim from AL
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Why is this section called God and Nature's Realm, when it has more posts from non-believers than believers?

It should be called, Those who do not believe, or maybe Those who do not share a belief.

Personally, from all the posts i've seen from those who don't believe in God or the afterlife, it makes me wonder.

If those of us who believe and those who do not believe came down to one final test, who would win?

If you believe, will you DIE for that belief? Would you die to prove you believe in God and an afterlife? Would you give up your life for others, like family and friends?

If you DO NOT believe, though, why do you constantly have to keep finding proof that you don't? Why would it matter whether someone else believed in God and the bible if that isn't what you believe? Does it really matter whether others are, as some may say, "Mis-informed?"

Personally, if I had the belief system of some people here who constantly try to find proof against those of us who do, or if all there was in life was the constant banter of why everyone who has a belief in God and the afterlife, i'd put a gun in my mouth, pull the trigger, and get it over with.

If all my life's struggles, all my pain, all those who I have lost don't matter, as they are just gone forever with nothing to show, no afterlife, and there was nothing else but this here, I'd have killed myself long ago. I mean, after all, if there isn't anything else after this, why would I want to spend my time here suffering like I have? What would be the point in my life if there wasn't anything else? It would be a waste of time to me, and I would get that wasted time over with so as to not have to suffer and battle every day as I do.

It wouldn't be worth it otherwise if all I believed in, and all there was after this was nothingness. That is why I don't understand why those who do not believe cannot settle and let the rest of us have our own ideas and stop trying to show us up or make us out to be uninformed idiots or scientifically lost in our own world.

So, for those who believe, don't continue to give ammo to those who do not and will never understand, only argue and put you down.

And, for those who do not believe, why would you care in the first place?

It behooves me as to why this is a constant argument with people. Believe what you want, believe what you do not, and stop constantly trying to change the attitude and beliefs of others who, from all points so far, don't care to do anything else but start an argument to try and prove they are right and we are wrong.

It's a waste of time, breath, and shows nothing else but a constant way to battle against others. And, there are enough battles in this life, believe or not, that we have to deal with without having to try and prove a point for either side.

I believe in God. I believe after this, I will go to heaven. You will not convince me otherwise no matter what you try. Because, if I didn't have those beliefs and faiths, my brains would have been sprayed out all over the place by now and there would be nothing of me, alive only dead, to even care what anyone else thought.

It's that belief in God and the fact that through my faith, killing myself is a sin and would lead me to hell in the afterlife forever to suffer beyond human imagination, that I haven't done it already. I believe all I suffer and all my pain will be rewarded after this life. Otherwise, what would be the use in it all?

You decide. But, stop arguing either way about it. That wastes everyone's time and only comes down to one side versus the other and not a single thing is accomplished.

Oh, and maybe we should stop trying to prove our beliefs to others all the time. If they don't want to believe, or they think we're wrong, let them. Why would it matter to someone who doesn't believe whether they are wrong, when they are right here being shown a way and given ammo to prove their point that we are. We give them the ammo. So, let's put the ammo away and let them shoot themselves in the foot, too.
Edited by Tim from AL, Jun 17 2009, 12:48 PM.
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Tim from AL
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To put it a little more easier to understand...

Sweep behind your own door before you go telling others their floor is dirty.
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"Why is this section called God and Nature's Realm, when it has more posts from non-believers than believers?"

Has to do with the Declaration which is ambiguous when it says "Laws of Nature and of Nature's God". Some of us are interested in the laws of nature, and leave the God aquestion unanswered. For my part, the God question cannot be answered, not with knowledge, you believe, or you don't.

"If you DO NOT believe, though, why do you constantly have to keep finding proof that you don't?"

Explain how you do that? How do you prove you believe, how do you prove you don't? Belief is not susceptible to proof. You can't. So we talk about nature's laws.

"Why would it matter whether someone else believed in God and the bible if that isn't what you believe?"

It doesn't matter what you believe.

It does matter when you claim you know. If you claim you know something, God for instance, and you post that, then you will be asked what you know, how you know, why you think you know. Why do you have a problem with that?

"Does it really matter whether others are, as some may say, "Mis-informed?""

Yes. Why would you want to misinform? Why would you want to post misinformation? Isn;'t that lying? Aren't you commanded against that?

I think you're still bothered about the time you posted Einstein said things and I showed you he didn't.

"Personally, if I had the belief system of some people here who constantly try to find proof against those of us who do, or if all there was in life was the constant banter of why everyone who has a belief in God and the afterlife, i'd put a gun in my mouth, pull the trigger, and get it over with."

Isn't that what you're doing now, questioning those who do not believe, trying to prove them wrong, arguing against them?

Again, though, you won't find arguments against belief--how would you argue something that cannot be proved? It is only claims of knowledge that are argued.

"if there isn't anything else after this, why would I want to spend my time here suffering like I have?"

Because there is this, life. Without struggle it would be meaningless, we'd just be sucking air.

"It would be a waste of time to me, and I would get that wasted time over with so as to not have to suffer and battle every day as I do."

Yes, seems you're trying to prove something here. That's somewhat hypocritical, isn't it? I mean you go into a diatribe about how nonbelievers are criticizing believers, and then you do just that, as a believer, criticize nonbelievers.

Nonbelievers see that all the time. I think it's because believers assume nonbelievers are just like them, believers just can't conceive what it means to be a nonbeliever.

Nonbelief just concerns the question of God. It doesn't concern belief about afterlife or purpose or anything like that. And as far as the question of God goes, you don;t know God any more than I do, God is unknowable, the question unanswerable, so the only difference between believers and nonbelievers is one chooses to believe and the other chooses not to.

Of course, other nonbelievers might put it differently.

"And, for those who do not believe, why would you care in the first place?"

Likely for the same reasons you do.

"It behooves me as to why this is a constant argument with people. Believe what you want, believe what you do not, and stop constantly trying to change the attitude and beliefs of others who, from all points so far, don't care to do anything else but start an argument to try and prove they are right and we are wrong."

You post belies the fact you don't believe that, that you believe you need to come and argue with nonbelievers.

The irony of all this is, you haven't argued belief, just about whether you believe or not in some unknowable concept called God.

"It's a waste of time, breath, and shows nothing else but a constant way to battle against others."

Then why do you do it? You';re getting hypocritical again. Arguments against arguing are rather absurd.

"I believe in God."

Good for you. I have no problem with that. I have no idea what you could possibly mean, and you can't tell me, so why should it bother me? It sure as hell seems to bother you, why?

"You will not convince me otherwise no matter what you try."

I wouldn't try. You seem to want to convince nonbelievers though.

"But, stop arguing either way about it."

No one's arguing about it, it cannot be argued.

"Oh, and maybe we should stop trying to prove our beliefs to others all the time. If they don't want to believe, or they think we're wrong, let them. Why would it matter to someone who doesn't believe whether they are wrong, when they are right here being shown a way and given ammo to prove their point that we are. We give them the ammo. So, let's put the ammo away and let them shoot themselves in the foot, too. "

How condescending and pompous. Your belief, which you cannot do more than say you believe, doesn't make you superior, but it does seem to make you arrogant. I doubt Jesus would like that.

"Sweep behind your own door before you go telling others their floor is dirty."

Practice what you preach. Too much hypocrisy and arrogance.
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ngc1514
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Tim from Al
 
Why is this section called God and Nature's Realm, when it has more posts from non-believers than believers?

It would seem more prudent to blame that failing on the believers, wouldn't it?

The two main believers appear to have abandoned this place.

Breezy, of course, rarely posted anything of his own, but spent all his time cutting and pasting from other sites, Often without having the honor to give credit to the original author; something known as plagiarism - a stealing of other's work - that should rack up his "Thou shalt not steal" debits in heaven. While his petty larcenies were amusing, far more was his lack of understanding 95% of the material he posted. Material that, in many cases was years old and completely outdated. Breezy posted tons of misinformation and, in many cases, outright scientific lies in an attempt to support his own religious beliefs in Young Earth Creationism.

Mike gets some interesting discussion going, but then nips out and ignores anything that might question his beliefs. I expect that Mike regrets the passing of Torquemada and the Spanish Inquisition. Burning heretics and non-believers is so much simpler than attempting to engage them in argument and debate.



Tim of Al
 
Oh, and maybe we should stop trying to prove our beliefs to others all the time. If they don't want to believe, or they think we're wrong, let them. Why would it matter to someone who doesn't believe whether they are wrong, when they are right here being shown a way and given ammo to prove their point that we are. We give them the ammo. So, let's put the ammo away and let them shoot themselves in the foot, too.

I have no problems with belief and, from his postings, I doubt Chris has, either. Anyone who wants to come in here and loudly proclaim, "I believe every word in the bible is true and it all happened just as god said it did!" is welcome to do so and I won't disabuse him of his beliefs. The problem, no, better to say, the FUN begins when the believer attempts to PROVE his beliefs are true in some meaningful and objective sense using the tools iof science rather than the rationale of belief. That's when things get interesting.

So, are you picking up the gauntlet to come in here and teach these non-believers a lesson or just post and run?
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ngc1514
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Checking the member list I see Tim of Al logged into the system this afternoon at 5:21. No response from Tim on the answers to his opening shot here.

Is this surprising?
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Just another drive by shooting...
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ngc1514
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With the typical lousy aim.
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Arrow hit that blade of grass though, see!
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Tim from AL
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I've proved my point. Shots from non-believers, YET, those who do are sitting with their backs in the corner.

I don't need to respond again. It's apparent.
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ngc1514
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Well... THAT certainly made a lot of sense!

Don't let the door... you know...
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