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the Creationist Troll
Topic Started: May 18 2009, 05:21 AM (1,154 Views)
Mike
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ngc1514
May 18 2009, 10:20 PM
Mike
May 18 2009, 10:11 PM
I believe religion is a combination of faith and experience on a personal level.
And from the experience with God, I came to the conclusion that I don't have to know how he holds the universe together or what forces are that He uses. This is such a short transitory state I live in, that while I live as fully as possible within it, my goal is beyond this existence and the wonder of what He has in store.
Why does god apparently withhold that "experience on a personal level" from billions of people?

Does that say anything interesting about god or does it tell us more about the person experiencing it? Is your experience any more valid than that enjoyed by a Muslim rhapsodizing over the Koran or a Jew with the Cabala?

How do you know?
I don't believe He withholds the experience at all. I do believe that some folks choose not to see what is before them. And this too is native it seems to the human condition. And that is why God gave specific examples on how to contact Him and build a relationship.

Example:

When I was studying for the motorcycle endorsement, one of the facts present ed was this. A motorcycle can be sitting in plain sight, and drivers of cars and trucks not see it on the roadway. Their brain does not register it and therefore the motorcyclist needs to take other measures to insure safe passage.
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ngc1514
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Quote:
 
I don't believe He withholds the experience at all. I do believe that some folks choose not to see what is before them. And this too is native it seems to the human condition. And that is why God gave specific examples on how to contact Him and build a relationship.

The assumption being that everyone who rings up god has this relationship, right?

How do you explain the millions who have spent years on their knees seeking god and still didn't find him? How do you explain the millions who were raised in the various churches, were devout believers and moved away from god?

Or do you think such cases don't exist?

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When I was studying for the motorcycle endorsement, one of the facts present ed was this. A motorcycle can be sitting in plain sight, and drivers of cars and trucks not see it on the roadway. Their brain does not register it and therefore the motorcyclist needs to take other measures to insure safe passage.

But the Department of Motor Vehicles doesn't consign you to an eternity in hell because you didn't see the motorcycle.
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I still go back to the question why you and breeze and many more claim to know and have a relationship with God but when you talk about it, or in cases, fight over it, it comes out as different gods and relationships. How can that be? You can't all be right, and you could all be wrong. You've got no way to show it.
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Mike
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ngc1514
May 19 2009, 03:18 AM
Quote:
 
I don't believe He withholds the experience at all. I do believe that some folks choose not to see what is before them. And this too is native it seems to the human condition. And that is why God gave specific examples on how to contact Him and build a relationship.

The assumption being that everyone who rings up god has this relationship, right?

How do you explain the millions who have spent years on their knees seeking god and still didn't find him? How do you explain the millions who were raised in the various churches, were devout believers and moved away from god?

Or do you think such cases don't exist?

Quote:
 
When I was studying for the motorcycle endorsement, one of the facts present ed was this. A motorcycle can be sitting in plain sight, and drivers of cars and trucks not see it on the roadway. Their brain does not register it and therefore the motorcyclist needs to take other measures to insure safe passage.

But the Department of Motor Vehicles doesn't consign you to an eternity in hell because you didn't see the motorcycle.
I can't answer for those who have failed to find God. Or who walked away from Him. The process is not complicated..seek and you shall find. It worked for me and I hear testimony from others that they too found Him.

And you are right, people do end up in hell. But not for ignorance... conditions that prevent them from forming a relationship with God.
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"The process is not complicated..seek and you shall find."

Seek what?
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Mike
May 18 2009, 10:11 PM
I believe religion is a combination of faith and experience on a personal level.
And from the experience with God, I came to the conclusion that I don't have to know how he holds the universe together or what forces are that He uses. This is such a short transitory state I live in, that while I live as fully as possible within it, my goal is beyond this existence and the wonder of what He has in store.
And this attitude is why I respect your belief Mike. Though It's not mine. Your faith is strong, yet quiet. Breeze I have no respect for. He is one of those bible head bangers, who is gleeful and gloating with the idea non believers will burn in hell for all eternity. He is not like the good Christians I know.
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Ditto that. I can respect your beliefs, Mike, but debate your knowledge--as you do mine, and well you should.
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Mike
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Now you both have me blushing. Coffee and donuts are on me.
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Instead of coffee and donuts, how about what you know, and can show. :-)
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ngc1514
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I just wish the Roman church would return to the Tridentine Mass. I used to sneak in the back door just to hear the sonorous sound of the Latin and, if it was a high mass or Missa Cantata ... so much the better. I hit a couple churches in France in hopes of finding one celebrating the Tridentine, but no joy. I think a Tridentine high mass in a thousand year old church would have been exciting and rewarding, but just hearing it in the French was blah.
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