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discussing ESRB with the clueless; very frustrating
Topic Started: Nov 28 2012, 09:55 AM (433 Views)
MrMikeNC
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Ok, this could have qualified for the "rant" section, but I really wanted to discuss this as well.

I've been away on holiday, and the gaming discussion came up. I will keep this as brief as possible and get to point.

It all started a few weeks ago when my bro/sis-in law's 8 year old played Halo 4 at some game truck that was at a birthday party. Apparently, one of his friends has an Xbox-360 with Skyrim and Halo 4, thus catering to the stereotype than underaged kids play FPS and have a mic. He started texting my wife on her sister's phone asking about the 360 and Halo 4, to which she asked me and I told her that getting an 8 year old an Xbox 360 to play games unsupervised was a bad idea. As you all know, my 6 year old plays lots of M rated games, always with me and under my supervision. The wife is not pleased with this, but let's it slide since he NEVER obsesses over these games.

So, when we were there, we had the conversion about whether getting him an Xbox for the holiday was a good idea if they tried to get all familiy rated games. Of course, I was against it because the Xbox is really aimed at the big boys, and after my sister in law downloaded the ESRP app on her phone and read some reviews, she immediately decided it was a no go. I gave them some great games on the Wii to get instead. My in-laws are former gamers, not as serious as me, but have been out of the loop since the Gamecube.

But, this is what the REAL problem is. We had discussion about what the ratings are and what may or may not be appropriate. I discussed with them how some games skirt around the ratings, so you really need to make some parental decisions as to what you think is appropriate for your child.

To demonstrate, I showed my sister-in-law Infinity Blade 2 on my iPhone 5, which their son desperately wanted the minute he saw it on my phone. This game uses the Unreal Engine so it has current gen HD graphics, gears of war style, and is rated 9+. I showed her how each fight works, and in particular showed her the finising moves.

The game plays out as a series of 1 on 1 battles - the enemies range from armored warriors to monsters, to beasts to titans. You study their attacks, and dodge left/right, block, parry their attacks, and attack when you have an opening by slashing up/down/across. The game has no blood, but when you defeat an enemy, you get a cinematic finish depending on whom you beat. The finishers range from you shoving the blade right into the face of the helmet, thrusting it through the heart, to slashing the legs to get them to drop and then jumping in the ari and shoving the sword into the neck, to punching the character repeatedly over and over. Instead of blood, sometimes sparks from the steel hitting the stell armor appear.

Now, after showing this, she liked it and downloaded it for her son. I told her that if those sparks were red like blood, the game would be rated M, and she said she wouls NEVER let him play something that had blood.

I was shocked.

So, it's OKAY to let him watch all these violent acts so long as there is no blood?

I could not believe this stance. I argued that the real violence was the act itself, not the blood. To which they argrily replied that "I had no leg to stand" on this issue. They did not even argue. They were both arrogant and ignorant. I had an argument, and theirs was simply "blood = bad".

I can see not liking guns and shooting people, but I cannot believe they think blood makes it "too real". Did they not look at the graphics and see how real it looks? Did they REALLY compare this to bugs bunny hitting Elmer Fudd with a malle? Does a 6 and 8 year old really not know that if you cut something, it bleeds? Do they need to be shielded from this fact, even though they are fully aware already?

I could not believe this, and how quick they turned to just shouting and not discussing.

What do you think?
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Focian
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What do I think? I think Naughty Bear is the best example of the (sometimes) insanity of the rating system. The game is violent, disturbing and extremely morbid. But it has a rating of 12 and above simply due to not having the blood and gore that would usually dominate the 18 games.

That being said, I do think that some rough guidance available for parents is a good thing for those that actually care about what their kids see on the screen, but they shouldn't be the be-all-and-end-all for appropriacy of a video game for a kid. That should, without a doubt, solely be on the shoulders of the parents.
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MrMikeNC
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Focian
Nov 28 2012, 10:05 AM
What do I think? I think Naughty Bear is the best example of the (sometimes) insanity of the rating system. The game is violent, disturbing and extremely morbid. But it has a rating of 12 and above simply due to not having the blood and gore that would usually dominate the 18 games.

That being said, I do think that some rough guidance available for parents is a good thing for those that actually care about what their kids see on the screen, but they shouldn't be the be-all-and-end-all for appropriacy of a video game for a kid. That should, without a doubt, solely be on the shoulders of the parents.
Yeah. I cannot believe Naughty Bear got away with that rating.

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Sheepinator
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(my first post here)

MrMike,

I agree the absence of blood doesn't change the visceral nature of the action significantly, but it does change it some. Also IMO violence against aliens isn't equivalent to violence against humans, which is why I would tend to think Halo doesn't need an M rating, although the fact you can still do assassinations in MP against human opponents is probably a big factor in the rating. I don't necessarily think 8 is too young for Halo unsupervised, though I would certainly not condone allowing mics. I would give a younger player Halo over CoD.

The ratings system is generally very good. The thing about your argument with those parents is that I suspect all they hear is, "You're a crappy parent, I know better." I know that's not what you said, but that's what some people tend to hear, and they shut down.

As a side note, I'm constantly amazed at the hypocrisy in the US when it comes to attitudes to sex vs violence. Like on TV, it's OK to have fighting, guns, blood, but OMG a nipple, OH NOES! Remember the outcry against GTA's Hot Coffee? Totally absurd.
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MrMikeNC
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Yeah, the shielding of kids from nudity over violence is absurd.

Another case in point, my Bayonetta tattoo. For those who have not already seen it, it is a tattoo of Bayonetta summoning the demon Gammorah, so yes, she is naked, but like in the game her hair swirls around her body, covering her vagina and boobs. Now, my sister in law is not a big fan of this tattoo, and has programmed her 5 year old daughter to call it "inappropriate" when she saw it. Of course, this is the same 5 year old that runs around the house naked in front of us - but this is ok.

And yes, we all do agree that violence against aliens and monsters and different than humans, and I also agreed Halo is not really THAT bad. I don't play Halo a lot, but always thought it should be rated "T" I told them its not rated M for the violence, that's for sure.
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Sheepinator
Nov 28 2012, 10:41 AM
(my first post here)

MrMike,

I agree the absence of blood doesn't change the visceral nature of the action significantly, but it does change it some. Also IMO violence against aliens isn't equivalent to violence against humans, which is why I would tend to think Halo doesn't need an M rating, although the fact you can still do assassinations in MP against human opponents is probably a big factor in the rating. I don't necessarily think 8 is too young for Halo unsupervised, though I would certainly not condone allowing mics. I would give a younger player Halo over CoD.

The ratings system is generally very good. The thing about your argument with those parents is that I suspect all they hear is, "You're a crappy parent, I know better." I know that's not what you said, but that's what some people tend to hear, and they shut down.

As a side note, I'm constantly amazed at the hypocrisy in the US when it comes to attitudes to sex vs violence. Like on TV, it's OK to have fighting, guns, blood, but OMG a nipple, OH NOES! Remember the outcry against GTA's Hot Coffee? Totally absurd.
*pops out of box in middle of room with confetti*

SURPRISE!!!!!!!!!!! HAHAHA

Congratulations on your first post here! And welcome !
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CapwnD
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Long Live the New Flesh!
Depends on the kid and the parent. I let my kid play every game all his life. He was playing Goldeneye before he was 2. He turned out fine.
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Paka
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CapwnD
Nov 28 2012, 12:59 PM
Depends on the kid and the parent. I let my kid play every game all his life. He was playing Goldeneye before he was 2. He turned out fine.
Agreed. Console games were heavily censored when I was a kid, but my parents let me read or watch pretty much whatever I wanted. I think I'm better for it, overall. Depends a lot on the individual kid, how mature and intelligent and such. A really sharp and well-adjusted seven year old might be fine with stuff that might cause issues for a developmentally delayed teen with psychological issues.
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