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Pet Changes; We want to know what YOU think
Topic Started: Mar 5 2015, 04:36 AM (1,043 Views)
Lightning
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Steel your mind. Run on instinct.
Disclaimer: The following is not to offend nor to be rude to anyone and if the opinion of Lightning and Lightning only unless another person says they agree on points of it.

Your character should be solid enough to be their own person in the event an NPC does not thread with them. You should not NEED another human being with your character at all times. A creature? They have quirks, traits and other things that a human pet thingy doesn't and they offer a dynamic different to what you should be aiming to have with your thread partners or npcs or whatnot. Refer to the rule about 'no multiple characters of your own in a thread' rule. Pets already borderline on that altogether, another human/humanoid character breaks it entirely really. We want to encourage you to focus on the other rpers hence why that rule was made.

Also, it's not like those that had a pet which fell under the 'too dragon like' rules even got a chance to vote. Just because you have one doesn't make a good argument as to why it should be allowed, nor does having them taken away isn't fair. Did the others get that? nope. Try to look at the larger picture rather than at your own personal gain. We want things to be fluid, we want to stop people from getting lazy and seeking an easy way out through just buying another person to constantly interact with and build bonds with. Not to mention another character essentially to take on missions etc. If you want a pet, 99% of them can be changed to a creatures appearance without negative impacts on their being and/or abilities.

As for the whole 'why allow humanoid pets then and why not human ones?' Because it's essentially a pacifier option. By rights, it should be one or the other, yes or no. But if people are going to be too upset about it then the middle option saves face I imagine. You can argue against how creature pets are the same as human ones save for appearance but when you get right down to it they aren't there are innate things that separate them and influence situations.


I honestly feel that the correct thing to be looking at here is permanent pets as a whole and whether or not they should even scale like they do. A pet should be a complimentary thing that offers companionship and what not. I am going to use my Summoner Mihairi and Lu as an example here;

They are very integral to one another for flavour purposes but since I am not and no one should be looking to buy a power boost for my/their character, nor am I\or should anyone be looking to buy a ball of tp and techs that I\they can't have on her\their for the magic limitations on her\their magic. Which face it, is why many people buy them =| That is how pets should be, you should not care about power with them. Have them be fragile, don't take them into danger - you wouldn't your real life pets now would you? I have two permanent pets, one of a rank other than D and I would actually like to see them scaled back to being something less than power banks. They should not be something you take everywhere for their power or to save you in dangerous spots, so why are they?

Also, for the love of god lets get a rule on how many permanent pets you can own on a character at any given time. One, just one. Harsh, maybe. But they are permanent and you should not need nor want more than one. Pets are sooooo much stronger than items of the same price value when you weigh up that they are alive and have a will, conscious and all the techs they can use over and over and over. Not to mention other stats and benefits. So, why can people have more than one at a time out and just pay to win? Summoners need a tech for that and it would be tiring, they can cantrip them without powers for some actual fun with their magic but that's it. They can't do it because they splurged jewels, why should a magic not even related to having companions like that be able to because #money and #my characters magic means I have access to every thing I could want on an item so I just buy a pet which is even stronger and gives me another character to rp with.

Magic limitations are on a character for a reason, as is the limit of one of your characters per thread. People seek a way to cover the weaknesses and flaws of their character and their magic with pets, flaws which make them human and balance them out. if that makes pets unappealing to all those power seekers or those that just wanted ways around limitations on their character then so be it, that's not how they should have been used anyway.
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Ravendark
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Logan Paul Dragon Slayer

TL;DR

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Fafnir Rakesh
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Sarcasm. Because beating the shit out of people is illegal.

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Your character should be solid enough to be their own person in the event an NPC does not thread with them. You should not NEED another human being with your character at all times.


This is completely true, just like nobody NEEDS to have magic on their characters (as it's just flavor for RP at the end of the day). Nobody NEEDS to buy items for their character's either. Pet's in my humble opinion are the epitome of an 'optional extra' and are a WANT rather than a NEED.

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A creature? They have quirks, traits and other things that a human pet thingy doesn't and they offer a dynamic different to what you should be aiming to have with your thread partners or NPCs or whatnot.


The dynamic that ANY pet brings to a character or a thread is most significantly influenced by how you choose to use it, not what aesthetic you give it. I would argue that I could achieve any dynamic with a human that anyone else could do so with a Pet. Yes it depends on your ability to use words, but I don't see this as a valid argument for removing or restricting pets- humanoid or otherwise.

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Also, it's not like those that had a pet which fell under the 'too dragon like' rules even got a chance to vote. Just because you have one doesn't make a good argument as to why it should be allowed, nor does having them taken away isn't fair. Did the others get that? nope. Try to look at the larger picture rather than at your own personal gain.


From the beginning of time, Pets have never been able to have particular draconian features. The instance of humanoid vs non humanoid is an entirely different kettle of fish because as we can see by looking at the previous posts in this very thread humanoid pets exist and changing it now for reasons that have yet to be sufficiently justified is exactly the opposite of promoting the 'fluidity' that you're talking about as complex character relations like that of Liberty's character are torn asunder.

Furthermore, if someone wants to buy ten pets and play with themselves that's up to them, but we implemented Solo thread rules to enable such approaches to RP for those who want them. arguing that we should remove human or humanoid pets based on the argument that we discourage solo threads is counter intuitive because we literally have a system in place that caters to it.

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As for the whole 'why allow humanoid pets then and why not human ones?' Because it's essentially a pacifier option. By rights, it should be one or the other, yes or no. But if people are going to be too upset about it then the middle option saves face I imagine. You can argue against how creature pets are the same as human ones save for appearance but when you get right down to it they aren't there are innate things that separate them and influence situations.


As several people have said, change the name from pet to companion and this problem ceases to exist.

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I honestly feel that the correct thing to be looking at here is permanent pets as a whole and whether or not they should even scale like they do. A pet should be a complimentary thing that offers companionship and what not. I am going to use my Summoner Mihairi and Lu as an example here;

They are very integral to one another for flavour purposes but since I am not and no one should be looking to buy a power boost for my/their character, nor am I\or should anyone be looking to buy a ball of tp and techs that I\they can't have on her\their for the magic limitations on her\their magic. Which face it, is why many people buy them =| That is how pets should be, you should not care about power with them. Have them be fragile, don't take them into danger - you wouldn't your real life pets now would you? I have two permanent pets, one of a rank other than D and I would actually like to see them scaled back to being something less than power banks. They should not be something you take everywhere for their power or to save you in dangerous spots, so why are they?


For every person who buys a pet for power, there's at least as many who buy them for companionship, situational flavor, boredom or because they simply have money to burn. I would argue that if you want a companion that is purely flavour and contributes no power to your character then simply make a recurring NPC. Just because your character doesn't look at pets as weapons or tools doesn't mean that other people don't and there are plenty of real world examples of pets being kept for just such purposes- guard/ hunting dogs being the most simple example. a Recurring NPC can't guard you from anything except for danger you create yourself and hence isn't real danger to begin with because nobody has ever created more danger than they could handle unless they were killing off their character on purpose.

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Also, for the love of god lets get a rule on how many permanent pets you can own on a character at any given time. One, just one. Harsh, maybe. But they are permanent and you should not need nor want more than one. Pets are sooooo much stronger than items of the same price value when you weigh up that they are alive and have a will, conscious and all the techs they can use over and over and over. Not to mention other stats and benefits. So, why can people have more than one at a time out and just pay to win? Summoners need a tech for that and it would be tiring, they can cantrip them without powers for some actual fun with their magic but that's it. They can't do it because they splurged jewels, why should a magic not even related to having companions like that be able to because #money and #my characters magic means I have access to every thing I could want on an item so I just buy a pet which is even stronger and gives me another character to rp with.


A limit on the number of pets one character can have in a thread at once doesn't sound bad to me, but that's a separate topic to this one and definitely deserves its own separate discussion so as not to derail this discussion. Though if someone puts in the effort to buy a lot of anything- items, pets, Tp, whatever- then they deserve to be rewarded appropriately with late game scaling. Time and effort should be rewarded but that's all I'll say about that in this particular thread.

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Magic limitations are on a character for a reason, as is the limit of one of your characters per thread. People seek a way to cover the weaknesses and flaws of their character and their magic with pets, flaws which make them human and balance them out. if that makes pets unappealing to all those power seekers or those that just wanted ways around limitations on their character then so be it, that's not how they should have been used anyway.


Besides that being completely off topic, it comes back to my point of everyone seeking something different from the same system. We all use the same character creation system to create characters with vastly different goals, motivations, personalities and so on and so forth. This philosophy also applies to magic systems, item systems and pet systems. You cannot simply limit something because one group would use it in a way that another group disagrees with (IC or OOC)- even if it's casual Rp'ers versus Power RP'ers. As long as the option is equally available to everyone, then it's up to the individual to make use of the system how they see fit and Pets are available to everyone- it just depends on how you want to make use of them.
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Zen
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S-Class
Also, I thought this was an RP site and thus for fun. Why block out a mostly aesthetic choice (whether your character is a human mage or a half-demon mage or a biovegansexual mer-giraffekin mage, they can all do the same, look the same, and behave the same with the only difference being their nature) that has no plot-related reasons (unlike the ban on dragon-like things) on a type of character?

It has no effect on their stat section, no effect on their personality, no effect on their place in the world other than that people will think them more mundane, so is there even one valid, good, rules-related reason other than "I dun like it"? Because that seems to be what most arguments against it have come down to, with the exception of "human pets is slavery!" which is utterly stupid because of the definition given in the rules.

But oh well, I guess FTG isn't for fun anymore and we need MOAR RULEZ!
Edited by Zen, Mar 8 2015, 01:25 AM.
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SilverRush
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I don't even know.
Zen
Mar 7 2015, 04:12 PM
Why allow humanoid pets but not actually human ones? That way, you can literally make a 100% human-seeming pet, personality and all, even without magic, and say they're a "Schlorpenwalb", a magical creature you came up with that is indistinguishable from humans. It would be a needless and foolish limitation. What's so bad about having a 100% human creature as a pet when it's completely legal to have other, equally-sentient, equally-intelligent, equally-advanced races as pets?
This, is basically how I feel about it. I'd say 2.5 to 3 are my choices, but I shall pick three. Honestly, I see this as kind of a tedious change which would only serve to inhibit one's ability to craft a story and limits creative freedom.

That, and as another person brought up earlier, there "are" evil characters which would plausibly use a human pet. Disregarding the perceived ethics of it, but is owning say...a summon only bound to your character's keys, that is only released to fight people on the owners command any different? (Hint: I'm saying the second one would be allowed, and still, a form of slavery in you at it in certain ways.)

At the current time, I don't intend to make a human companion for my own character, but I can understand the reasons others would wish to do so. That said, I feel as if it would be an arbitrary change with little meaning, other than restricting creativity. Just my own two cents to the situation.

Edit: I also don't see why the term pet couldn't just be changed to Partner, or Companion, or something. Iunno. Just suggesting an idea.
Edited by SilverRush, Mar 8 2015, 02:02 AM.
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Inara Serra
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Honesty without tact is cruelty.

Thing of it is, no offense intended to anyone here, at the end of the day, of course it's going to be the people effected who argue the hardest. And of course there should be some small limits to pets. But you can choose, in a singular thread to take them or leave them.
And you should, by rights, be able to choose what form they get, how they appear, how they act, becuase they are Your pet. You have to pay a ridiculous sum of money for this privilege. Its the same as buying an item, though these are sentient.
Do I think they should be used to further plot every three seconds? Nope.
So I think you have the right to make something the way you want it if you're paying for the shit? Yup.
Should it become this huge issue? Prolly not.
And at the end of the day, who the hell is it helping suddenly implementing a "We are not Burger King and you cannot have it your way" rule? No one. That is my point. And that is all.
Edited by Inara Serra, Mar 8 2015, 02:07 AM.
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Spider-Jay
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凸^-^凸
idk if I see the point in this argument over how ethical it is to have a human pet, I mean seriously, you can bend it how ever you want; and some of the pets walking around are still basically humans so this leads me to question you as people, seeing you are willing to have a human like cat as a pet but not a human looking one, anyway basically it's useless arguing such things as ethics or how people chose to use their pets for IC development
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Tenken
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Hoennese and proud!

Alright well people have offered opinions and stuff has gone back and forth but I'm gonna put a close on this topic now that it's clear what the general consensus is.

I'll get back to you all when we go through our next rules update with the decision we make, thank you for your input.
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