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ANOTHER Archive magic suggestion; It amuses me to make 1 topic per idea
Topic Started: Nov 23 2014, 06:33 PM (228 Views)
Fafnir Rakesh
Member Avatar
Sarcasm. Because beating the shit out of people is illegal.

So based on feedback on previous ideas, custom techniques (read: any technique not compulsory or listed as 'optional' on the main archive page), should not have anything to do with stored techniques, because it messes with the foundations of what that spell is meant to do. Therefore, I'm changing my focus to mimicked techniques.

*pauses for groans*

So my next idea is super simple and I'll lay it out right now without further dramatic pauses or suspenseful delays or anything else that I could think of to keep you reading useless words... like crayon... or cheesecake.

Fusing two mimicked techniques together in order to create a new unique spell.

NOW BEFORE YOU START, A FEW PROVISIONS


  • Two techniques can be combined to create a new technique (literally a new technique that needs its own TP to be ranked up) and only two. So no combining four spells for four effects in one shot.
  • This new technique cannot be made higher in rank than the lower ranked parent spell
  • Both parent spells must be at least rank 5
  • The new spell can only contain one aspect of each spell for a maximum of two effects (but the idea is to create a single unified effect). For example: Buff and damage, element and projectile, heal and shield etc etc
  • As mentioned earlier, this spell requires its own TP to rank up from rank 1. So essentially, it costs 10TP (from the two parent spells) to unlock this spell at rank 1. I feel this is important enough to be mentioned twice so it sinks in.


My reasoning for looking into this avenue of custom techniques is simply that it makes sense that an archive mage who has memorised tens, hundreds or even thousands of spells can think of a way to merge at least two of those spells together. So if they go to the trouble of mimicking two high ranked spells, why shouldn't they be able to crossbreed a little? It's not like all archivists are automatically morons who can't think for themselves after all.

For example:

Spell 1: Create a metal sword
Spell 2: Create a fireball

Fused spell: Create a fire sword.

This is a super basic example and of course, you couldn't fuse a teleportation spell with one that fired a hundred lasers. I'm talking sensible combinations here people. I'd even suggest that certain kinds of spells be exempt from fusion (e.g. time and teleportation) from the outset.
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LibertyGear
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Providing Fire Support

I do not have an archive mage, but I can agree with this idea. However I also think that archive mages already have a lot of versatility, so something like this would need some king of drawback.

A new archive mage already asked me something similar, so I will say what I told him:

"It could be done but it would either have a cooldown equal to the added cooldown of the parent techs, or it would cause the parent techs to go on cooldown."

This of course was just an idea based on using the cooldown for the drawback, there can be other ways.
Edited by LibertyGear, Nov 23 2014, 07:09 PM.
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Fafnir Rakesh
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Sarcasm. Because beating the shit out of people is illegal.

My only problem with adding a drawback (at least in terms of your suggestion liberty)to the sort of system I'm thinking of is that we find ourselves treading the fine line between balancing something and making it unappealing (aka useless, aka like the first version of archive magic).

Given that the archive mage in this scenario would have bought and paid for this technique on its own merit, it would be extremely counter intuitive to then have the spell unavailable based on either of its parent spells more than it already was (requiring two rank 5 spells in order to be created in the first place).

So if additional drawbacks/ limitations/ restrictions need be applied, I'd rather them not be related to putting multiple spells on cooldown from a single spellcast or having extravagant cooldowns (although perhaps +1 to standard cooldowns wouldn't be too bad?)
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LibertyGear
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Providing Fire Support

I see where you are getting at but there needs to be some kind of serious drawback. Doesn't need to be a heavy one, but one that makes archive mage think seriously between using tp for fusing or on a new tech from the archive.

That or some limitations to what can be fused. Having a buff spell with other effects already walks into some of the support magic options that are limited support specialist, which archive mages are not supposed to. Not saying people would do it, but there needs to be some serious limitations

Changing element is something that, would require no drawback in my opinion, but adding heals and shields like one for your suggestions would be walking a thin line between it actually being usable and overpowered if no heavy drawback is applied. Cause there are only a few things that could be effectively changed there:

Duration, cooldown, and power, and even with a high cooldown and 1 post duration, im not seeing this having both shield and heal at the same power of a tech that focuses on only one of those things.

Of course mods would force anyone making this to go down a notch in some area, and at that point i would rather just use the two parent techs than an underpowered hybrid.

Thing is, im sure you might so agree with me, but if there is to be a new rule to implement this kind of tech there needs to be some strong explanation about what can and cannot be done.

So I think we should first discuss the limitations so we can more easily come up with the base rules for something like this.
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Fafnir Rakesh
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Sarcasm. Because beating the shit out of people is illegal.

in terms of limitations, first and foremost the overall power of a fused technique could be determined by a few factors, which include but are not limited to:


  • no fused spell should exceed the overall power of a spell made by any other mage.

By this, I mean that although we might get some unique combinations, they would be subject to heavy duration/ CD penalties depending o how much they push the boundaries. But if I just really want to create a fairly mainstream technique, then it would have a very mainstream duration and cooldown.

By virtue of the fact that having a fused technique requires at least 11TP just to get a rank 1 fusion spell means that any sensible archivist would think carefully about creating any fusion technique and do so sparingly. Otherwise they end up with a host of techniques that could have been better spent mimicking a new technique. Furthermore, if they seek to combine two polar effects for some kind of uber spell, then (assuming it actually passed mod approval), I expect it would have hugely restrictive parameters in terms of CD and duration.
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Zaber
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Water Dragon Slayer

Alright I read it over.

On a personal level, I like the idea. I think it would be nice to fuse spells together to create an original combination of some kind. Example-- Light and Fire mimic spell to create a Sun-magic technique.

You made good examples. I would add a larger cooldown though to make it usable, or downgrade the damage it could do. I feel as an archive spell, it might be doable , considering the Memory-Make mage from Sabertooth used a similar idea.

The problem here is that archive requires it solely based on the techniques of those you archive. Not sure if it will be fully allowable. But if willing to encourage people to mimic spells, and plug more TP in, it might be considerable.

Again we would need to strictly review the created technique and see if the combine amount is allowed.
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Balmung6
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Combat Enthusiast

One, I like the idea, given appropriate drawbacks (as some will not see 11 TP spent as big enough drawback for a two-spell combo, even with the time it takes to get it.)

And two, teleportation and lasers is totally feasible. Warp to a spot + lasers everywhere upon arrival.

Surprise Rave Party - (10).
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colaguy
D-Class
Okay so I was honestly just talking to Lib about this yesterday (I am the guy he mentioned! Hi!) So I took the idea a bit differently in it like this.

Archive: Fuse

Archive Fuse Rank may never exceed but may equal Archive: retrieve.
Any spell archived may be used however, the Rank of the resulting spell is calculated as (Spell A + Spell B) / 2 rounded down. That being said, the max any fused spell may ever be is 9 given that spells used with Archive retrieval are always 1 less in damage.

Secondly - all Fused spell combinations must be bough and TP must be used much in the same way mimic is used. Using the mages own TP to upgrade it. However, keep in mind that the spells rank may only be less than or equal to the average of the two spells combined rounded down.

A use of archive: Fuse would place Archive retrieval on cool-down as well as itself
The cool down for archive: fuse is determined by the pre-registered spell.

I think this limitation of rank on the fused spells based on the rank that spells are analyzed would force people to go hunt down that mage they got he spell from in the first place and re-analyze the spell for their own purposes. It puts a nice limiter on it I think.
Edited by colaguy, Nov 25 2014, 10:12 PM.
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Tenken
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Hoennese and proud!

^ That's a really good write-up for this idea.
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