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Another Archive tech Suggestion; So as not to derail the other one
Topic Started: Nov 22 2014, 06:38 PM (230 Views)
Fafnir Rakesh
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Sarcasm. Because beating the shit out of people is illegal.

So I saw the topic that Fumus posted upon my return and it made me think two things.

Firstly, huzzah that someone is seeking to make custom techniques for archive!

Secondly, what the heck!? Nobody has made (and successfully passed) any custom techniques for archive outside of the ones given/ suggested to us.

So I thought for a minute about what kind of techniques an archive mage could plausibly have besides what's already written in the guide and Fumus's suggestion got me thinking. Archive's power lies in storage and retrieval, which makes it inherently difficult to have what I'd call 'truly unique' techniques without being somehow linked to one or both of those techniques. Fumus is definitely on the right track here and so here's what popped into my head...

Archive Empowerment - [Rank]
Type: Utility
Range: Self
Effect: By inputting large amounts of magic power into a spell, the user is capable of 'overloading' a stored technique and cast it with enhanced effectiveness. This technique can only be applied to stored techniques that are currently stored at a level that is below the users magic rank and cannot go any higher than the users magic rank. This technique enhances all damaging, buffing, healing and utility spells according to the standard guide for the particular brand of technique, but does not apply new effects even if higher ranks of the original technique possess additional effects.

Cooldown: Some number that prevents it being spammable (thus rendering mimic obsolete) but doesn't render it useless either. Absolutely no higher than 3 posts at rank 10 and 5 posts at rank... well... 2 since at rank 1 it can't actually function.


The point of the spell is to enable characters to add a bit of extra punch to a stored spell in a pinch. It also stands to reason that a rank 10 mage with the knowledge of a rank 1 fireball spell should be able to just crank up the power supply to make a bigger, hotter, more fiery fireball.

To clarify the point on not adding additional effects, let me provide an example.

Generic buff number 267 gives +5 strength at rank 1. It is then stored by an Archive mage. At rank 2, the buff gives +5 strength and +5 speed. But if this technique was used in conjunction with my proposed technique, it would instead give +10 strength because speed was never a part of the technique at the rank it was stored.

In this way, this technique is not a shortcut to getting a high rank version of a low ranked spell (which is what mimic is for lol) but it does allow someone who's got a lot of magic power to make good use of ALL their techniques instead of leaving our poor archive mages with a shot of low level spells that they'll never use.

TL;DR:
Constructive feedback only.

I'd prefer to just nip any snarky comments in the bud right here and now and keep the thread on track for its entirety. Please and thank you :)

Edited by Fafnir Rakesh, Nov 22 2014, 07:10 PM.
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Zaber
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Water Dragon Slayer

Custom techniques ? Well um... first of all the use of Mimic allows you to change cosmetic appearance of a spell so long it follows the same mechanics. Not to mention how you can upgrade it properly.

That aside, not sure if Archive Empowerment would be allowed for the following:

1: Certain guild spell (Lamia Scale) provides a spell to boost and add damage to other techniques like that. Because of that not sure if Archive Empowerment would be doable.

2: The purpose of spells being downgraded via storage in terms of offense power means that in order to obtain so much techniques means that it be overpowered to get them at full value on its own, even with the assistance of another spell like Empowerment.

Personally, I like the idea a lot. How you would be able to amplify a spell to make it stronger. Whether its fair to the magic system rules, I am hesitant to say it would be accepted. Still, its a cool idea. Still, it feels like its a cheat for a spell to be say jumped in rank. Unless of course you make a ceiling amount for just how much of a boost it can get. LIke no higher than your own magic rank or rank of the technique.

Anyway that is my thought on the matter. Hope that helps a bit.
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Fafnir Rakesh
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Sarcasm. Because beating the shit out of people is illegal.

Fafnir
 
This technique can only be applied to stored techniques that are currently stored at a level that is below the users magic rank.


I did include a ceiling of sorts in the original draft. Although I did forget to specifically say that it can't go above your magic rank so I'll add that in.

Also, you do raise a good point that I forgot about, which is that stored spells are -1 rank in damage. In that case, the answer is simply to limit the maximum empowerment (for damage at least) to rank 9. So at rank 10 magic, you could only make your rank 1 fire ball spell as damaging as a rank 9 fireball. At magic rank 9, 8 is your limit an so on and so forth.

In regards to guild spells- specifically Lamia Scales- I believe it's an unfair comparison because that spell can be used to potentially empower a single casting of a rank 10 spell to do far more damage than what any regular rank 10 spell could do, whereas this spell would never go above rank 9 in terms of damage with the above stipulation in place. Other guild spells that 'empower' a mage's spells also have unique additional effects which are what qualify them as being 'guild spell tier' in the first place make them both vastly superior and unique when compared to what I'm proposing.

Edit: Also, I don't count mimic as any sort of custom techniques because, as you said yourself, you're really only changing the aesthetics and not making anything that's unique (i.e. not originally copied from someone else). It's an amazing spell and I love it, but it's not really- at least in my opinion- 'custom' or 'unique'.

Edited by Fafnir Rakesh, Nov 22 2014, 07:13 PM.
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Otaku
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MAGE-PRIVILEGED GUILD SCUM

Zaber
 
2: The purpose of spells being downgraded via storage in terms of offense power means that in order to obtain so much techniques means that it be overpowered to get them at full value on its own, even with the assistance of another spell like Empowerment.


This is essentially why I don't think your idea is feasible. By powering up a spell beyond the level that you've observed it (without sinking TP into it to learn it yourself) or otherwise 'powering it up' -- aka, canceling out the obligatory -1 rank of damage -- you're unbalancing the system of archive as it is intended to function >.<

I am curious in seeing what other custom archive techs people come up with, though!
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Fafnir Rakesh
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Sarcasm. Because beating the shit out of people is illegal.

Then we could simply incoporate a stricter limit on the maximum empowered damage, so instead of magic rank -1, it could be magic rank -2 as the maxium power obtainable. (Turning a rank 2 technique with rank 1 damage into a rank 7 technique with rank 5 damage for instance).

Putting damage aside, what about non damaging effects? if the problem is with damage, then what if we didn't touch damage and only empowered other kinds of effects? Buffs, heals, binds, flight, teleportation, shields etc.
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Zaber
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Water Dragon Slayer

Only real types of archive customize spells I am thinking of is utility information gathering.

For example, my archive mage uses magic to also observe areas, like map out areas and pinpoint positions of people. Another Idea I plan to use is create a bestiary technique to identify monsters and their stats and attributes.

Archive mages can have unique spells but must be about gathering information of some kind. Knowledge is power after all.
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Tenken
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Hoennese and proud!

Otaku
Nov 23 2014, 08:14 AM
By powering up a spell beyond the level that you've observed it (without sinking TP into it to learn it yourself) or otherwise 'powering it up' -- aka, canceling out the obligatory -1 rank of damage -- you're unbalancing the system of archive as it is intended to function.
That argument is actually 100% solid on why "empowering" a spell beyond the level you've analysed it wouldn't work.
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colaguy
D-Class
I think if an archive mage wants to empower a spell it should be from a point of concept as opposed to actual rank, take for example;

You have a rank 7 fireball that does rank 7 buring and rank 6 actuall damage.... well instead of powering up the actual damage of a spell empower the spells effects, so a rank 8 burning with rank 6 damage, granted its all a bit fluff but, that's how I can think an archive mage can empower a spell.

however, we really run into problems when you try to empower a buff or debuff spell because those are directly related to a spells rank; perhaps some strict rules applied. The more you think about it the harder it is to justify empowering something that you can't feesible understand being you have not yet analyzed it.

If that makes sense?
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