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Archive Technique Suggestion
Topic Started: Nov 14 2014, 05:37 AM (254 Views)
Fumus
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・。゜. ヘ(゜Д、゜)ノ

To add to that list of Archive-only techs?

**** - [Rank]
Type: Passive/Active
Range: [Rank] x 10
Effect: Whenever the user uses a technique that is of Archive origin, such as Analysis, Retrieval, Mimicry, Bestow, etc., **** gains one charge, up to max of [Rank]. The use may activate **** to release a non-elemental blast that inflicts damage depending on how many charges had been accumulated. The amount of charges will equal the damage equal to the same rank number. The cooldown is [Charge/2] rounded down. Ranks 1 to 3 can gain a max of 1 charge per post; r3-5 a max of 2 charges; r6-8 a max of 3 charges; r9-10 a max of 4 charges per post.
Edited by Fumus, Nov 14 2014, 05:44 AM.
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Vilis
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(ᴗ˳ᴗ).。oO
Don't be greedy. Archive already has enough techniques of its own.
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Fumus
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・。゜. ヘ(゜Д、゜)ノ

I understand if the technique would be out of bounds for Archive due to how it is and/or what it does, or even if it's simply due to me being a normal member putting this up, but

from rules- easy link below
 
Yes, besides those four listed above Archive is quite capable of other techniques! Here is a (very) short list of some ideas you can use in your travels that will be expanded upon as we go, though since you're mostly based around external magics I doubt this will take up your TP list for very long:
~~~
As I said, this list will be expanded as we go.
x

How is posting this idea up considered being greedy when it already says there is a possibility for more stuff?
Edited by Fumus, Nov 14 2014, 08:42 AM.
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Tenken
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Hoennese and proud!

You're not being greedy, it's 100% fine to ask about additional archive techniques.
Now let's look at the actual technique idea:

Magic Effect
 
Whenever the user uses a technique that is of Archive origin, such as Analysis, Retrieval, Mimicry, Bestow, etc., **** gains one charge, up to max of [Rank]. The use may activate **** to release a non-elemental blast that inflicts damage depending on how many charges had been accumulated. The amount of charges will equal the damage equal to the same rank number. The cooldown is [Charge/2] rounded down. Ranks 1 to 3 can gain a max of 1 charge per post; r3-5 a max of 2 charges; r6-8 a max of 3 charges; r9-10 a max of 4 charges per post.

So the idea is that it passively generates charges to fire a burst of damage as you use your archive abilities - eventually culminating in said blast with a cooldown. A couple of questions/comments:

-Due to the activated/constant portion of Analysis would you generate a charge every time it analyses something or solely when the technique is begun?

-Would you gain a charge for every single retrieval? That seems a bit much.

-Is there a cap to the number of charges you can store at any rank?

-What other techniques would this be applicable to? Would it apply to all Mimic'd techniques? Because again that's a bit much since those are no longer technically "archive" techniques but your own.
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Mazohyst
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Stay the course.

Ultimately, at best it is a long CD non-elemental single-target nuke spell with a lot more limitations than other examples which is probably a requirement due to it being an Archive damaging technique. It takes a maximum of 3 posts to gain 10 charges for a full powered Rank 10 hit. Though, personally I think it would be more interesting if it involved gaining charges purely through analyzing techniques so that you have a smaller window that is more reliant on other mages which seems to fit the Archive thematic more to me.

From what I understand, there's a few things to keep in mind about this tech as it's written:

Even if you can gain charges from the myriad of things Archive can do, this technique is still required to "ramp up." It will take 3 posts to reach full charge assuming you gain 4 charges in your first post, 4 charges in your second, and then 1 in your third. This is what it takes to fire a Rank 10 hit. Then, the cooldown is Charge/2, or 10/2, so it would have a lengthy 5 post cooldown.

Lower rank techs aren't much better, and basically how the tech is designed is that if you are at Ranks 3, 5, 8, and 10 (the highest in each bracket) then you have to collect charges over 3 posts to deal an equal rank damaging tech.

If anything, the tech doesn't seem OP to me at all.
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Tenken
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Hoennese and proud!

It's not OP at all and in fact I'd be amenable to a quicker charge rate and lower cooldown as long as Analysis and Mimic are addressed in some way
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Fumus
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・。゜. ヘ(゜Д、゜)ノ

@Tenn first:
- Due to the activated/constant portion of Analysis would you generate a charge every time it analyses something or solely when the technique is begun?
   For analysis, it would be when the analysis tech itself begins, regardless if it manages to analyze something. **** was originally meant to gain only one charge per individual tech use (a tech can't give a charge again until after it goes on cd).

-Would you gain a charge for every single retrieval? That seems a bit much.
   This was one of the parts I didn't understand about Archive for a while (never really thought to ask). For storage, I think I understand it merged to become an explanation for: ayyy look i have this tech now ayyy. Since the analysis tech can only add one charge by itself, I thought of each successful storage of a tech to also add a charge, per added tech at the time of storage (note again the limit # of charges gained per post).
For retrieval though, is the cd of retrieval separate for every stored tech, meaning that in theory, every stored tech could be used on the same post and have different cooldowns from each other? Or, can only one tech be retrieved per usage? (I think it's the former, but I never thought to make sure until now).
If it is the former, then what I had originally thought was that since only one charge is added per usage, and that each post has a limit of charges that can be added, it would basically require timed spamming if someone really wanted to charge up quickly? (using three techs in a post is a lot imo, but i'm not familiar with having a lot of techs to use anyway.) At later stats with like 100+ stamina or something, it might make less of a difference in trying to conserve, but this concept of using retrieved techs felt more benefiting the more techs someone has stored, but also definitely not impossible to use if the archive mage had only a few.

-Is there a cap to the number of charges you can store at any rank?
   In the tech, I mentioned "... **** gains one charge, up to max of [Rank] ...". I just realized how cruddy this wording is. I meant, they gain one charge per usage of a tech, but can only store up to [Rank] amount of charges at one time, since I was unsure about the potential of **** at rank 1 being able to deal rank 10 damage. However, after thinking about it, I'm wondering if it would be allowed to deal one rank damage higher, due to the requirements behind this tech. On the other hand though, I would rather that not be done, even if it is somehow allowed. I originally thought about this tech as something more like... An extra tech that could be an "oh shit" button if the archivist runs out of choices and needs a quick finisher after exhausting their usual options. And combo stuff is cool yo, something to tie things together. ALTERNATIVELY, I see what you were referring to now: allowing there to be a higher amount of charges, (limited amount or unlimited amount?) but only using up [Rank] charges for the actual blast? Might be better, depending on everything else. I hadn't thought about it like that.

-What other techniques would this be applicable to? Would it apply to all Mimic'd techniques? Because again that's a bit much since those are no longer technically "archive" techniques but your own.
   Hhhhhhooooonestly, I completely forgot about Mimic'd techs after they become, well, mimic'd. I was thinking that a charge would be added when a tech initially gets Mimic'd, but any usage afterward of the mimic'd version of the tech would not count toward the charges. (I am assuming that the archive mage still has the option of using the "retrieval" version of a tech even if it's mimic'd? if that's the case, then they would have the option to use the 'retrieval', weaker version for adding charges, or actually using the mimic'd one. this point is moot if the tech disappears from storage once mimic'd, though).
As for other techniques aside from the already listed ones, I left it open because I am unsure about future techs that may be created and I didn't want people to end up screwed over because of 'new stuff is added but wouldn't be included'. (there's analysis, storage, retrieval, [initial] mimicry, and then i was thinking about the shield and telepathy additional ones too? but honestly, just the main four is a lot already, so yeah... the more I think about it, it would be better to limit the gaining of charges to those four [technically three, but i am counting storage and retrieval as separate atm until further notes]).

@mazo
O: ! I hadn't considered that idea, with the whole charge-from-analysing-only. It sounds a lot more archive-oriented, but. A problem I see is a thread becoming a "gain techniques gogogo" fest more than it already might be. Archive, by nature of their magic, is already as uhhhh It's like... 'they benefit' from being in threads with other mages already, but it's also a 'they need' other mages to make their magic hellllllllllla. I was hoping this tech to, aside from a potential oh-shit button, be something available to the archivists in a thread that isn't focused on or feeling necessitated to gathering techs as well (the worst that could happen is if the number of techs to be analysed actually runs out, and then the tech goes poot).

Aside from that though, yeah that's basically what it is with the maths and the idea. An offensive tech that is restricted as it is due to being Archive. And if this tech does work out, people would still need to choose between the options of tping this up instead of tping their own other techs (or become the "weak offensive part of archive in case the archivist has literally no techs in their storage, like, are you okay do you need partners).

Admittedly, I like the idea of comboing stuff. Some others might like it too, or imagining the option of blASTING SOMEONE WITH A DATABAS-


EDIT: I typed this before Tenn posted again, but I think I clarified on those two points. I haven't edited anything about the tech in the first post yet since I'm not sure what's up/needs to be typed/needs to be mentioned.
Edited by Fumus, Nov 18 2014, 12:54 AM.
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