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| Lexie Vs Straykey on God | |
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| Topic Started: May 19 2011, 03:09 PM (1,958 Views) | |
| 御 Cloud | May 24 2011, 10:31 AM Post #11 |
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Who you calling chocobo head...
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Light Rider Simmons101 Luffy1045 Shaolin Braver In the order I would suggest asking them, based on what I know of their IRL stress and activity here. They are the only four I can think of to ask... |
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| THEPUNK101 | May 24 2011, 10:45 AM Post #12 |
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Leah
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Madge would be the best choice though He is awesome
Edited by THEPUNK101, Jun 27 2012, 08:56 PM.
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| 御 Cloud | May 24 2011, 11:38 AM Post #13 |
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Who you calling chocobo head...
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This is meant to be a debate on the existence of God, not on the finer points of what he does or does not condone, Light Rider for not being against homosexual marriage (not that he supports it either as he said) does not change his ability to debate the existence of God. Though it is your choice still who you will debate with. |
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| THEPUNK101 | May 24 2011, 11:57 AM Post #14 |
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Leah
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<----------this guy sux
Edited by THEPUNK101, Jun 27 2012, 08:57 PM.
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| Lexie | May 24 2011, 04:21 PM Post #15 |
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You've just been Britified.
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if I may put a finer point on the subject, I should like to be getting on within the week, so please find SOMEONE, even if it's Joe the Janitor :P |
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| Madge | May 24 2011, 08:07 PM Post #16 |
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The Dragon of Grimiore Heart
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Alright, I've heard your call. Consider me in this debate. |
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| Lexie | May 24 2011, 08:29 PM Post #17 |
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You've just been Britified.
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Oh goodie! The gang's all here! I shall make the opening remarks...once I find my notes...and some spare time ¬¬ I'm busy doing the homework right now xD |
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| THEPUNK101 | May 25 2011, 05:40 AM Post #18 |
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Leah
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Awesome Madge and me vs. Lexlie and Tim gov1 begins |
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| Lexie | May 25 2011, 07:38 AM Post #19 |
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You've just been Britified.
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Opening statements are always the tricky bit, since I've never really surrendered the traditional advantage of going second. But because this is a board debate and I'm good at debating, I'll surrender my momentary advantage and simply take it by force. Without further ado, I shall begin. I don't need 5 points to warrant my atheism, I simply need one. But I'll take my five, if that wouldn't be overkill. 1: Absence of Evidence The lack of evidence for deities is stunningly underwhelming. From this I can infer one of two things; 1: it doesn't want us to know it's there or 2: it doesn't exist. I have opted for the second, since the lack of belief in God or Gods is defined by the term atheism. Now, atheists may make the claim that they can disprove the deistic god, but I cannot. The Christian God however...he's very disprovable. In summary, I am justified in my rejection of theistic claims simply because there is no irrefutable evidence of God's existence. 2: The Badly Tuned Universe Theists often make the claim that this Universe is fined tuned for life. Firstly, I find your expressing surprise that you're allowed to exist in a Universe in which you're being allowed to exist rather bemusing. Do you think that you'd be here if life WASN'T possible here? I'm not hearing much from Pluto on the God question right now. In fact, if life had arisen on Pluto, in the form of humans and other species suited to the Earth, that would be the evidence for God in my mind. Bare in mind that the Universe is mostly empty anyway, with no air. That means that most of this universe in uninhabitable by humans. Fair enough, you may say, well what about the Earth? Err...no. War, pestilence, famine, injury from environment, volcanoes, earthquakes, cancer, viruses and other nasties that make life on this planet pretty damn hard. Stephen Weinberg summed it up like this; Imagine a puddle. This puddle marvels at how wonderfully concave the Earth is in just the right spot out of the sun to allow its formation. It posits that it was put there by a creator. But, we both know that a puddle will suit any concave, not just that specific one, don't we? 3: Theism. Yes, the hubris is amazing. I'm using Theism to disprove theism. Bring it on! Theists all think they have the truth, otherwise they wouldn't be theists. But, here's the trick; how do you sort out the liars? How do you know that the Zoroastrians aren't correct about their version of a God? Or, how about the Hindus, who have many gods? The evidence for every deity I know of is just as shoddy as the evidence for your God, so why don't you believe in other non-falsifiable things you cannot prove? 4: Incorrect Holy Books. Holy books make incorrect claims...A LOT! As a person who's read and studied the Bible, I can confidently say that it's rather incorrect on a great many things. For example, it says the Earth is a circle, that it's a square (no, I'm not joking. Revelation 7:1 clearly states the corners of the earth), that the Earth sits on pillars (Job 9:6, Job 38:4), that you can cure leprosy by chopping the head of one dove and dipping another in the blood of that dove and letting it free. My point? If a deity had written a book, it would not have been the Bible. You'd think that a God would know that the Earth was a spheroid, that the sun didn't "hasteth" anywhere to "his" place, that leprosy was caused by bacteria, not demons, and that witches didn't exist. I think we all know that famous commandment in the Old Testament: "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live!" - Somewhere in Exodus, will amend when I find that verse again xD 5: The Evident Fear Tactics. Right, a little bit of personal history for you. When I was a little one, my mother and I had a fight about Christianity. I didn't want to go to Church, so I said I'd stay home. And, you know, she told me that if I didn't believe and have faith in God, he'd roast my skin off. Now, who says that to a child? As a child, the thought of Hell was very real, and very scary. If adult theist's fear of Hell is anything close to mine was, I think we have a long way to go. Even now, I am reluctant to kiss my girlfriend because there's a tiny part of me that goes "What if Hell's real!?" Now, would someone else care to enlighten me as to why apostasy needs to be looked down on so fiercely by theism if they have the truth? No, let me amend that. Why would a God even create people with the capacity to not believe? Yeah yeah, free will. But y'know what? I'd rather not have my flesh roasted off my body thanks. I'd like dearly for God to prove his existence, because I very much dislike the thought of Hell. But, let's be honest...if Harold Camping has taught us anything; the truth is rarely what you claim it is. It is illogical to accept claims without any proof, thank you. - That would be my 5 points, hope they gave you something to chew on ^^ Edited by Lexie, May 25 2011, 09:11 PM.
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| Madge | May 26 2011, 02:00 AM Post #20 |
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The Dragon of Grimiore Heart
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Alright, now I will be addressing each of your subjects by numbers, just Fyi. Also, keep in mind that I'd like to keep this rather clean, no insults or I'm out. Secondly, I ask that everyone allows themselves to keep their minds open. For, we all know, you can not seek the truth, if you're not interested in finding the truth. And no, I'm not going to throw bible verses out to prove my statements, it's quite redundant. So, #1: Absence of evidence ------------------------- The lack of evidence? I beg to differ, and I can back this statement. Go for a walk through the mountains, visit quiet, secluded areas in the country. Nature itself, is proof of intelligent design. The beauty that exist on this earth, is nothing to ignore. Now, I guess people could view my previous statement as invalid, so I'll answer your question with another question. With the MANY possibilities, probabilities, do you find it just mere coincidence that the Earth is as gorgeous as it is? I'm not certain on the ratio, or if there even is a ratio, but i can guarantee that If this world were to have formed on it's own, the chances off beauty would be slim at best. But, despite this, please explain to me how the Christian God is "very disprovable", because I happen to think just the opposite. #2 The badly Tuned Universe ----------------- I'll agree with you on the fact that the universe isn't tuned for life, hell, it's far from it. But, that's all the more reason to put faith into a greater being. And don't get me wrong, while it's possible for life to have formed, the STATISTICS behind it are overwhelming. Do you realize the fact that EVERYTHING would have to be exactly perfect to maintain life? I'm no scientist or mathematician, but I'm going to have to say, you'd have better luck winning the lottery forty to fifty times in a ROW. About the quote, I don't think you can compare the two in my opinion. Puddles are quite common, but have you witnessed any other intelligent race that was created on a different planet? #4 Holy books ---------------- Well, I can assure you, that everyone has their own interpretations on the bible. For example, "the corners of the world". I'm not sure it's talking about actual corners, you can't make the same mistake as the catholic church in the 1300s, they took the bible's words TOO literary. Secondly, the bible wasn't written by God, it was written by his disciples. God however, INSPIRED the creation of the bible. By that, he would send angels / messages to his disciples. It's not like God sat down at a table one night and decided to create a book over his beliefs. The bible has many authors, who were apparently given or told what to write. They chose to write through THEY'RE OWN interpretations of what they witnessed through visions, or read through messages. You speak of the old testament, just realize, that the old testament holds no relevancy thanks to my good pal Jesus Christ. As In, the things that were once preformed before the crucification of Christ, Is no longer required. BECAUSE, when Christ died, he allowed himself to become a PURE sacrifice. Only a PURE sacrifice can quench god's anger for our sin. "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live!" That's not a commandment. #5 Fear Tactics ----------------------------- People can go about by trying to save others through ignorance, but that's okay, they're just scared. Revelations isn't a threat, it's going to happen. And, It's not like God wants to send you to hell, but he's a perfect being. It breaks his heart, but if you choose to deny God / Jesus, then you're not with him. Since you're not with him, you can not be with him, therefore, the only place for you Is hell. And you might be thinking, "If he loves us so much, why would he create hell and condemn us to it?" Well, God Is a PERFECT being, and sadly, allowing those who turned their backs on him would defile that fact, and he would no longer be perfect. Secondly, Hell was created for Satan and his angels, It wasn't intended to be used on his lambs. (Us) Thirdly, God created people with the capacity to not believe, because he wanted US to choose our path. Would you honestly enjoy a life where you were forced to believe in a supreme being? It wouldn't be love, you would be born with the knowledge. The angels don't have a choice in the being, why would he recreate another race of "Angels". It's complicated to explain, but what I'm trying to get at, is that he respected, and loved us enough to entrust us with a choice. He's not forcing us to align ourselves with him, but giving us the choice. Will you stand with him? Or decide to ignore him, and shun him from your life? And, you say It's illogical? The idea of a God, or eternal life is impossible for your brain to comprehend. Just take a second and think about living forever, or a being who's always existed. Your brain can't comprehend It mainly because of the fact that you understand our life on earth comes to an end. Everything on earth has a beginning, and a end. It doesn't In God's eyes, or his world. |
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7:11 PM Jul 11









