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Abortion - Yes or No?
Topic Started: May 18 2011, 10:41 PM (2,882 Views)
THEPUNK101
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Leah
expired
Edited by THEPUNK101, Aug 28 2011, 09:11 PM.
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Tenken
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Hoennese and proud!

Sooooo Stray, you've still not addressed 2/3 of my points too.
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Dragonmimi
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Listen Stray, the life of the child is as much a matter of this issue as the life of the mother. Any mother who cannot look after their child properly or who does not want that child should not have one. Any child who is brought up in bad circumstances or who isn't loved is not a child who is happy. Children should be glad that their parents want them and love them, they should not be brought up in any less than the best circumstances with parents who unconditionally love and adore them.
Your argument about killing a seven year old is invalid because there is a distinct line between a fetus and a baby, that line is drawn at birth. If the parent of the seven year old cannot cope, she can hand the child over to someone who will care for it.
If a woman who is pregnant cannot cope, she can have an abortion. This is not 'murder' or 'killing' as the fetus cannot survive outside the mother's womb.

We need to get over the concept of 'potential' life, and instead focus on the life that is already in this world. Just because a fetus can become a baby, does not mean that it will. "Miscarraige" is simply another word for an abortion induced by the body. Why? generally because the fetus would not survive, or even sometimes because the mother is in a bad state of health.
If nature can abort a fetus, why can't we? Why shouldn't women be able to choose what governs their lives for the next two decades?

Stray, i would like to point out that men 'abort' all the time because they got a woman pregnant and leave her because they don't want to look after the child, for some reason women are in some way obligated by society to look after a child because they gave birth to it. This is not true of all men, and i thank those who would support their partner in such a difficult emotional time.

"Rather than face the consequences of your actions" Stray, sex is one of the STRONGEST drives of EVERY Human, and sometimes contraception fails. Should the fifteen year old girl go thru pregnancy and birth just because she and her boyfriend explored their sexuality and the condom broke? or they forgot it?
Should the educated woman who had a one night stand but forgot her pill that morning throw away her life's ambitions that she worked so hard for to care for a child she won't love?
Should the 12 year old who was raped by her uncle be forced to go thru the dangerous and traumatic experience of pregnancy and birth, just to have the child taken away by authorities, or even killed by her uncle?

Babies are left to die by their parents ALL THE TIME because they couldn't deal with it. I am of the opinion that having an abortion before it gets that far is a much better option.

Perhaps Stray you would like to be a female for nine months during pregnancy? Then the birth? Oh and how about the two decades of looking after that child's every need?
Would you like to get morning sickness? How about constipation? Really weird cravings? Constantly sore back and muscles from the weight? Wetting yourself in public being a regular occurrence? How about the potential DAYS of labor where it feels like your innards are ripping themselves open? The damage of your most sensitive organs from a 10cm in diameter baby's head being pushed thru it? No? How about smelly diapers? waking up at ridiculous hours to breastfeed your baby?
and that's just the FIRST YEAR! Did i mention that in many cases women are left permanently damaged or even die because they got pregnant and gave birth? Or perhaps that women fall into ruin because their boss fired them because they got pregnant?

Perhaps you'd like to go thru that after one night of sex stray? Or not even sex! Maybe just a little semen got in the vagina! THAT is how 'virgin births' happen.

How dare you propose that you have a CLUE about what women 'should' or 'should not' do with their bodies? How DARE you propose that we should ignore our most basic bodily drives? HOW DARE you propose that having a child is 'punishment' for having sex?
HOW DARE YOU go so low as to presume that women are LOWER than men because ONE CHROMOSOME decided to give them the ability to INCUBATE A FETUS?!
HOW DARE YOU degrade children by calling them a CONSEQUENCE of sex?
HOW DARE YOU degrade sex from the beautiful union of two people to something that deserves punishment?!
HOW DARE YOU even CONSIDER to tell other women that their only choice in life is to have children?

We are no longer in the dark ages Stray, your backwards view of sex, women, babies and birth appalls me.
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THEPUNK101
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Leah
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Edited by THEPUNK101, Aug 28 2011, 09:10 PM.
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Dragonmimi
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*headdesk*
You just don't get it do you?
There is NO verse in the bible which damns sex before marriage, so long as the couple are in a strong long term and loving relationship it is ok (from the bible, not my opinion)
Might I add that there is indeed a story in the bible in which a ritual abortion is performed? Perhaps you would like to explain that?
Sex is a basic biological drive, look at the facts. Just because you don't feel it now, doesn't mean you never will. And if you try to abstain YOU WILL FAIL. Trust me.
So i have been in a loving relationship with my boyfriend for four years now, we have been having protected sex for twoyears, its a beautiful and loving experience, sometimes with deep spiritual intensity, we have no intention of getting married or having children (at the moment, the future can be decided in the future). So am i going to hell Stray? Personally i don't think so. But if following my instincts and having sex and also using contraception is cause for going to hell then i don't want to know god. BRING ON THE DEVIL. If god made us, then he made sex appealing for a reason.
There are plenty of 12 year olds experimenting in sex right now, its not disgusting, its exploration of the body (theirs, and their partners)
I am all for having children and bringing new life into the world, one day i want to have children. Does waiting until i am in a better position to care for children condemn me?

I firmly believe that women should not be trapped by their biology by being forced to have a child when they do not want one. So call me radical for wanting equal rights for both sexes.

Stray, do not presume to know right and wrong, and do not presume to know the 'will of god'. I might add also that abortions can also be an emotionally traumatizing experience, but much less so than pregnancy and birth.

All I'm saying is that i believe that abortion should be the right of every woman as an option. They should not have pressures on them to make the 'right' choice, only the facts. A woman's body is her own and it is her choice to share it with another being (sex) or to use it to create another being (pregnancy and birth). A woman should not feel forced to put her self thru anything she does not want.

I can see though that you Stray, will stick to your mindset and bang on about 'right' and 'wrong' for a while, just think on this: your idealistic views would not work when put into practice, I'm afraid the world simply doesn't work that way.

Well I've managed to get fired up in all my feminism once again. I'm leaving this thread as i have done more than enough yelling. I'm pretty sure i have made my view clear.

I am in favor of abortion.
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Daveclap
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Quote:
 
ITS NOT A BASIC BODILY DRIVE!!! Eating, Sleeping, Drinking, Breathing yes. Sex, NO. Then maybe you shouldn't have pre-martial sex.


Actually it is. Let us refer to MRSGREN

Movement
Respiration
Sensitivity

Growth
Reproduction
Excretion
Nutrition


Taking it back old school now homie. Each one of those factors determines life. I see reproduction, why? Because if we didn't reproduce, it'd be the end of the damn human race. Whether you like it or not, it is a basic bodily drive, and it can't be helped. If god wanted me to have post-marital sex, then after my ceremony he'd pop it on with his magic powers.
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Luffy1045
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Let the flan flow through you.
Like 4 other people, I voted no, but only because there wasn't a third option ("Depends on the situation").

Now, before Stray makes all christians look like douchebags, let me intervene.

I don't think abortion is right, because for me (and I expect the trolling to continue) it's kind of like a pre-emptive murder. Plus, it's just making the whole "sleeping with no protection" a much lesser deal. "I'm pregnant! No worries though, I can just abort it". Also, I've heard (no real sources, sorry) that a lot of women that abort have a hard time after emotionally, because they feel guilty.

I'm not woman, and I can't say I understand what they go through (which looks quite painful), but I have to put myself in the shoes of the other person involved in this: the father. After all, maybe it is the woman that carries it, but it should be a dual decision. I mean, without the guy, you wouldn't be in this situation ! It's only fair he participates/contributes in these kind of things.

Another thing though... I DO believe there are some instances where abortion is and should be used:

-When someone is raped.
-When the woman in question is below 14
-When keeping the baby might result to death of both him/her and the mother

The Vatican exiled a girl, her parents and the doctor (who were all faithful christians) from the church because the girl had it aborted, but the fact stayed that without this abortion, she and the baby would die. That's an instance where the Church is being a troll.

Now, let's touch upon what some of you say. Sex is natural, since that's what God gave us and animals to be able to reproduce and keep the human race alive (truly you fail Stray). However, saying that abstinence is impossible is very "meh". I mean, many have done it without fail, so why can't this generation do it ? I am certainly a virgin, and I will strive to stay so until marriage. Then you have those that practice safe sex. I don't mind if you do, new age new customs, but I'm referring to the Bible that I believe is the word of God, so you do you and I'll do me.

My point is, these subjects are always heated between believers and non-believers simply because they do not know how to interact with each other.

In the end, I'd only allow abortion for special conditions.

P.S.: I'm not catholic, so me and the Vatican aren't exactly friends XD
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Orbis Signifer
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I don't approve of abortion but there are 2 sides to this argument that even make me confused about my view of it...
First, I wouldn't classify it as murder but you are still stopping the life of something. Thought it might not be murder I still think it is wrong.
Second, what if the mother of the child is unfit to take care of a child? Would you have that baby and then make it's whole life miserable?
That is why I think I'm a little confused about this matter. So for now... I'm undecided...
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Lexie
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You've just been Britified.
Now, if you're all comfortably mired in your positions I shall...begin.

I'm personally for abortion. But it doesn't matter. Curious? Good.

It doesn't matter because I am not going to GET an abortion. if you need an abortion, get it. If you have an abortion just to cut off a pregnancy you don't want, go for it. I think you're a bit of a douche, but go for it. If you're against abortion, don't feking have one!

Here's the wonderful thing about abortion; it's a choice in most circumstances. If you don't think that abortion is moral, then don't have one. It's when you start telling other people that your morals are theirs is when you start acting like a douche. And then I have a problem with your behaviour.

In short; live your own life and stop worrying about other people's.
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Tenken
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Hoennese and proud!

Straykey
Jun 1 2011, 07:20 AM
Oh and Tenken considering I wasn't trying to respond to anything you said 2/3 is pretty good.
No as in you only responded to 1/3 of my points from before meaning you missed 2/3 of them, but that's ok if you want to continue denial I'll restate them here just so you can't unless you really want to seem like you're just being convenient.

Quote:
 
The end doesn't justify the means, what exactly are you referring to if that is the case?


Quote:
 
A woman has a condition meaning she cannot physically give birth to children or else she will die. She does not know she has this condition. She gets married and her husband and her wish to have a baby and when she gets pregnant the doctor tests her blood and discovers this condition.

Should she get an abortion to save her life, or give birth to the child and they will both die?

Aaaaaand: GO!

Also Luffy: respect for backing up your arguments with situational adjustments.
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