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Sex Before Marriage - Yes or No
Topic Started: Jan 29 2010, 12:42 PM (6,835 Views)
Luffy1045
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Let the flan flow through you.
**** DAMN IT !!! PLEASE KEEP THIS DAMN TOPIC ON-TOPIC !!! I DON'T CARE WHETHER OR NOT YOU BELIEVE IN GOD OR NOT, WE ARE NOT HAVING ANOTHER PHILOSOPHICAL QUESTION, WE ARE JUST ASKING IF FUCKING SOMEONE IS RIGHT BEFORE OR AFTER MARRIAGE !!!

NOW.

I believe in having sex before marriage. Why ? No, it's not just because the Bible said so, but I also think I'd rather have this intimate act with someone I gave the rest of my life to. Sex before marriage ? I am against simply because it never ends up being with the girlfriend/boyfriend, it ends up being with the half the population, spreading an STD. One person is more safe than five. But hey, God gave you free will, it's your choice.

And please, if you are going to bash this comment, don't be a troll.
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THEPUNK101
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Leah
expired
Edited by THEPUNK101, Aug 28 2011, 09:25 PM.
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linkrulesx10
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Stray...
"*ignores Luffy because Biblical accuracy is more important than this debate*"

You know what this thread is about so try and at least act like you care about the debate in the debate thread :)
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Cloud
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Who you calling chocobo head...

...My last name is Brown, I'm Timothy David Brown. You can have your choice of Tim, Timmah, Timmy, Cloud, Cloudy, Spike, Spikey, Blond, Blondie, Strife, Emo-kid, Kotarou or Kota (with or without '-kun' to any of them).

8)Acts 7:4 says that Abram didn't leave Haran until after his father died. Genesis 11:26 says that Abram's father was 70 years old when Abram was born, and Abram's father lived to be 205 (11:32). Clearly, then, Abram was at least 135 when he left Haran. Yet Gen.12:4 says he left Haran when he was only 75. Genesis 16:16 is saying Abram was 86, the rest over 135.

11-20 (of 456)
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THEPUNK101
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Leah
Hey you're just copying and pasting not thinking it up yourself. read this so we can skip to #26. Don't you have any of your own problems with the Bible not random stuff you read online?

Quote:
 
1. How many men did the chief of David’s captains kill?
800? (2 Samuel 23:8)
Wrong. Josheb-Basshebeth slew 800 enemies at one time. He was “Chief of the Three (Adjutants)”.

300? (1 Chronicles 11:11)
Wrong. Jashobeam slew 300 enemies at one time. He was “Chief of the Thirty (Commanders)”.
Note. Two individuals are sometimes taken as one person due to the KJV which mistakenly calls them “Chief of the Captains”. No contradiction at all.
(See the article How many did the chief of David’s captains kill?)

2. Was Abraham justified by faith or by works?
He was justified by faith (Romans 4:2).
Right. He was justified unto God by faith.
For justification now go to http://www.rationalchristianity.net/gospel.html

He was justified by works (James 2:21).
Right. He was justified unto men by works (as people don’t recognize faith).
Note. People don’t accept faith as a convincing argument. However the works unto men are in need of God’s ongoing justification as they are never perfect. The offering of Isaac should convince the world later on that Abraham and Isaac were the rightly chosen patriarchs of Israel.
(See the article Was Abraham justified by faith or works?)

3. How many sons did Abraham have?
Abraham had only one son (Genesis 22:2).
Right. Abram had got the new name Abraham; thereafter Isaac was born. And so Isaac was the only begotten son of Abraham at that time.

Abraham had more than one son (Genesis 16:5 etc.)
Wrong. Ishmael was the son of Abram, who had not yet received the new name Abraham. So Ishmael was at that moment the only begotten son of Abram.
(See the article What about the “only begotten son” of Abraham?)

4. Was Abiathar the father or the son of Ahimelech?
Abiathar was the son of Ahimelech (1 Samuel 23:6).
Right. Abiathar got the name of his grandfather.

Abiathar was the father of Ahimelech (2 Samuel 8:17).
Right. Ahimelech named his son Abiathar after his father Abiathar.
That’s all, I don’t see a contradiction.

5. Who was Abijam’s mother?
Maachah, the daughter of Abishalom (1 Kings 15:1-2).
Right. Maachah (or Michaiah) was the granddaughter of Abishalom. According to the rule: “a daughter of a daughter is a daughter”, she is named as his “daughter”. Tamar was the biological daughter of Abishalom (2 Samuel 14:27).
Note. This move was only accepted when the accurate genealogical status of an individual was clear from the book(s)context.

Michaiah the daughter of Uriel (2 Chronicles 13:1-2).
Right. Uriel was the biological father and Tamar was the biological mother of Michaiah (or Maachah).

6. How were Abijam and Asa related?
Abijam was Asa’s father (1 Kings 15:8).
Right. Asa was heir to the throne after his father Abijam.

Abijam was Asa’s brother. Both are said to have Maacha as mother (1 Kings 15:2,10).
Wrong. Maachah was the biological mother of Abijam and the grandmother of Asa. According to the rule “a mother of a mother is a mother”, there is no contradiction.
Note. This move was only accepted when the accurate genealogical status of an individual was clear from the book(s)context.

7. How long was the ark of the covenant at Abinadab’s house?
20 years (1 Samuel 7:1-2, 10:24).
Right. This was the first period previous to Saul’s reign.

More than 40 years (1 Samuel 6:2-3).
Right. This was the first and the second period together: the period previous to Saul’s reign and the period of Saul’s reign (40 years), at least 60 years.
I don’t see a problem.

8. How old was Abram when Ishmael was born?
86 years old (Genesis 16:16)
Right. This is clear from the text; 11 years after his entering in Canaan (age 75).

More than 135 years old (Genesis 11:32, Acts 7:2-4).
Wrong. Sometimes it is supposed that Abram entered into Canaan at the age of 135 instead of 75 years. This is based only on a clear misinterpretation of Acts 7:2-4.
(See the articles How old was Abram when Ishmael was born? and How old was Abram when he left Haran? )

9. How many sons did Absalom have?
Absalom had three sons (2 Samuel 17:24).
Right.

Absalom had no sons (2 Samuel 18:18).
Wrong. They died – certainly due to an accident or deadly illness – and Absalom built a monument for them and for himself with the remark “I have no son to keep my name in remembrance”.

10. When did Absalom rebel against David?
After forty years (2 Samuel 15:7).
Right. Shortly after the festivities of David’s forty year jubilee.

Much less than forty years since David only ruled for a total of forty years (2 Samuel 5:4).
Wrong. David reigned 40 and a half years (2 Samuel 5:5). Immediately after the festivities, Absalom initiated the revolt and within a month the fight was done.
(See the article When did Absalom rebel against David?)

11. The two contradictory creation accounts
- First Account (Genesis 1:1-2:3)
Humans were created after the other animals (Genesis 1:25-27).
Wrong. They were created after the animals. Humans are not simply “other animals”. We don’t eat humans, do we?
- Second Account (Genesis 2:4-25)
Humans were created before the other animals (Genesis 2:18-19).
Wrong. The second account gives many flashbacks and doesn’t present a historical sequence of events.

- First Account (Genesis 1:1-2:3)
The first man and woman were created simultaneously (Genesis 1:27).
Wrong. There is no mentioning here of a simultaneous creation.
- Second Account (Genesis 2:4-25)
The man was created first, then the animals, then the woman from the man’s rib (Genesis 2:18-22).
Wrong. The animals were created first, then the man and then the woman from the man’s rib.
Note. The critic tries to wrong-foot the reader with the argument that the sequence of events should always correspond with the given information in the biblical narratives. This is not to the point as flashbacks in a narrative will always obstruct the historical sequence of events. It is quite amusing that the critic himself does the same. He gives the SAB Contradictions in the sequence of the Bible books and also in a random sequence. Does he want to suggest that his proposed contradictions are wrong?

12. Who was Achan’s father?
Achan’s father was Carmi (Joshua 7:1).
Right. Carmi was the biological father of Achan. 

Achan’s father is Zerah ( Joshua 7:24 and 22:20).
Wrong. Zerah was Achan’s great-grandfather, but according to the rule “a father of a father is a father etc.” Achan can be named “the son of Zerah”.
Note. This move was accepted when the accurate genealogical status of an individual was clear from the context of the book(s); which is the case here.

13. How many of Adin’s offspring returned from Babylon?
454 (Ezra 2:15)
Right. This is a quotation from the list that Ezra recorded in Babylon at the meeting place of departure.

655 (Nehemiah 7:20)
Right. This is a quotation from the list that was made up after the journey to Jerusalem. It shows that after the departure many of Adin’s offspring who came up later, joined the stream of immigrants.
(See the article Contradicting lists about Israelites that returned from Babel?)

14. How many of Adonikam’s offspring returned from Babylon?
666 (Ezra 2:13)
Right. This is a quotation from the list that Ezra recorded in Babylon at the meeting place of departure.

667 (Nehemiah 7:18)
Right. This is a quotation from the list that was made up after the journey to Jerusalem. It seems that a birth during the journey took place.
(See the article Contradicting lists about Israelites that returned from Babel?)

15. How should adultery be punished?
They should be executed (Leviticus 20:10).
Partly right. They could be executed. The aggrieved person had to lodge a complaint against the guilty party. That was not always possible. Uriah could not complain anymore. David and Bathsheba stayed alive. The aggrieved was free to not complain and could remain silent. No complainant, no case. Joseph didn’t want to accuse Mary, but tried to leave her. The death penalty for adultery was meant as an ultimate possibility to protect the status of matrimony. Generally the complainant accepted a large amount of compensation.

They should not be punished (John 8:3-8).
Wrong. Jesus accepted fully the Law of Moses. In this story there was only the guilty woman and so according to the law there was no case as the adultery man was missing. No case, no condemnation.

16. Is it wrong to commit adultery?
Yes. (Exodus 20:14, Deuteronomy 5:18, Hebrews 13:4).
Right.

No. (Hosea 1:2, Hosea 3:1)
Wrong. (Hosea 1:2) The prophet Hosea married a converted woman who had lived in adultery in her former life. She had abandoned her former life as is clear from the fact that she became a faithful wife of Hosea who bore him three children. As the apostle Paul said “What they were, makes no difference to me.” (Galatians 2:6)

(Hosea 3:1 “love” has the meaning of “choose” here and is not related to marriage or sexual intercourse as is clear from the context.)

17. Was Haman an Agagite?
Yes. (Esther 3:1)
Right.

No, Agag and all Amalekites were killed in a God-ordained genocide (1 Samuel 15:2-3, 7-8, 32-33).
Wrong. Not all Amalekites had been killed, only the guilty ones. There is no question of a God-ordained genocide in the referred texts. Compare: Moses proclaimed in the desert the conquest of Canaan; only the cities that attacked the Israelites were taken by them. Only the Amalekites that had cruelly oppressed the Israelites, were attacked. Those who didn’t want to flee were slain with the ban, the general rule of war at that time; as the Amalekites had applied in Israel for years and worse.

18. Was Ahaz buried with his fathers?
Yes. (2 Kings 16:20)
Right. “And Achaz slept with his fathers, and was buried with his fathers in the city of David.”

No. (2 Chronicles 28:27)
Wrong. “And Achaz slept with his fathers, and they buried him in the city, even in Jerusalem: but they brought him not into the sepulchres of the kings of Israel: …”
There was a hill with the tombs of the sons of David (2 Chronicles 32:33, see NIV). Obviously a part of this hill was used for the tombs of the Kings of Judah. Ahaz was not buried in the royal tombs but certainly on the hill “with his fathers”.

19. When did Ahaziah begin to reign?
In the twelfth year of Joram (2 Kings 8:25).
Right. The part of the year that Joram started to reign is taken as “a year”, resulting in 12 years at the moment of speaking. This was the year reckoning of kings in North Israel and also accepted in the South (Judah) as in that period many marriages between the two royal houses took place.

In the eleventh year of Joram (2 Kings 9:29).
Right. Joram’s reign is counted from the full first year of his royalty according to the original Southern way of counting periods of reign.
(Compare: E.R. Thiele, The mysterious numbers of the Hebrew Kings, Zondervan, 1983)

20. How old was Ahaziah when he began to reign?
22 years old (2 Kings 8:26).
Right. The correct translation is: ’he became 22 during his reign,’ which refers to the beginning of his reign.

42 years old (2 Chronicles 22:2).
Wrong. The correct translation is: ’he became 42 during his reign,’ which refers to the end of his reign.
(An old misinterpretation resulting in mistranslations.)

21. Did the city of Ai exist after Joshua destroyed it?
No, it was never rebuilt after Joshua destroyed it (Joshua 8:28).
Right. It remained a permanent heap of ruins, a desolate place.

Yes, it existed at the time of the Babylonian captivity (Nehemiah 7:32).
Wrong. It was never rebuilt, but a new city arose in the neighbourhood of the ruins and received the old name.

22. What tribe was Aijalon from?
Dan. (Joshua 21:23-24)
Partly right. Already under Joshua, the tribe of Dan had to give this city up to the tribe of the Levites.

Ephraim. (1 Chronicles 6:66, 69)
Right. Later in history Dan had lost strength and moved to the north of Israel; Ephraim -instead of Dan – controlled Aijalon, a city of the Levites.
No contradiction.

23. Does God want some to go to hell?
God wants everyone to go to heaven (1 Timothy 2:3-4, 2 Peter 3:9).
Right. This was, is, and will always be God’s intention.

God wants some to go to hell.
Wrong. God wants everyone in heaven. But – true – not everyone will be there. It also depends upon the individual desire of people.

Proverbs 16:4. This verse doesn’t relate to hell at all.
John 12:40, Romans 9:18, 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12 also don’t relate to hell, but to wilful separation from God which results – in this life – in: spiritual blindness, hardness of heart, rejection of the truth and believing in falsity.

24. Did Jesus tell his disciples everything?
Jesus told his disciples everything (John 15:15).
Right. Unto that moment.

There were some things that Jesus didn’t tell them (John 16:12).
Wrong. This is later. He is saying that he had more to tell them. There is no questioning here about the past. Moreover after his resurrection he taught them the last lessons, being seen of them forty days (Acts 1:3).
No contradiction at all.

25. Was David alone when asking for the holy bread at Nob?
He was alone (1 Samuel 21:1).
Wrong. He asked bread for himself and for those who were with him. “But the priest answered David: ‘… there is some consecrated bread here – provided the men have kept themselves from women.’”

He was with others (Matthew 12:3-4, Mark 2:25-26, Luke 6:3-4).
Right. There you are.


"SAB Contradictions 1 – 25 Rejected | Contradicting Bible Contradictions." Contradicting Bible Contradictions | Answering Bible Contradictions... Web. 20 May 2011. <http://contradictingbiblecontradictions.com/2011/05/sab-contradictions-1-10-rejected/>.

Quote:
 

Is it wrong to have sex outside of marriage?
Exodus 20:14, Deuteronomy 5:18 Thou shalt not commit adultery.
Hebrews 13:4 Whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.
Hosea 1:2 And the Lord said to Hosea, Go, take unto thee a wife of whoredoms....
Hosea 3:1 Then said the Lord unto me, God yet, love a woman beloved of her friend, yet an adulteress.

about that
Gomer was not an adulterous woman when God told Hosea to marry her but God said she would become one. God requires extraordinary obedience from his followers. Also it is an illustration of what God did with us. We were going to become adulterous and unfaithful but he still decided to love us. And when she did become an adulterer God told Hosea to redeem her which is like how Jesus redeemed us and you may have understood that if you read the rest of the verse.
Hosea 3
1 The LORD said to me, “Go, show your love to your wife again, though she is loved by another man and is an adulteress. Love her as the LORD loves the Israelites, though they turn to other gods and love the sacred raisin cakes.”

"(Hosea 3:1 “love” has the meaning of “choose” here and is not related to marriage or sexual intercourse as is clear from the context.)" http://contradictingbiblecontradictions.com/2011/05/sab-contradictions-1-10-rejected/#comments

And yes sex outside of marriage is wrong.
Edited by THEPUNK101, Jun 27 2012, 08:40 PM.
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Cloud
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Who you calling chocobo head...

...Tim is fine, or you know, any of the other names...like Cloud, or Strife...

Well, if you've found the source I'm getting these from (and forgive me for using an online source when I have 80+ hours of uni+travel+work a week and don't feel like spending a month attacking my bible with a highlighter), you can go ahead and answer all 456 then.

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/by_name.html

You can start with the ones here;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RB3g6mXLEKk

Because I will admit some of the Skeptics Annotated Bible ones are petty, so the video one might be a better start.
Edited by Cloud, May 21 2011, 03:22 AM.
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THEPUNK101
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Leah
I used this thing to bring you all closer together :)
you can thank me later
Edited by THEPUNK101, Jun 27 2012, 08:40 PM.
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Tenken
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Hoennese and proud!

Please stay on topic or take your discussions elsewhere since like 99% of that wasn't relatable to the topic.

As for the actual topic at hand I see no moral, physical, mental or emotional reasons not to have sex but I do understand some cultures and religions frown on it and that's their choice and I respect that. I may not understand the rationale all the time nor agree with it but I do respect it and all I ask is that ny point of view and way of life is given the same

Personally I couldn't live without sex now.
Simple, easy, done.
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Rogue10205
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D-Class
I don't think you should have to wait for to be married. But i guess it all depends on your morals. But i don't see anything wrong with it.
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TheFallenGod
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Sex before marriage? I heard it's bad luck if the girl gets pregnant before the wedding but I doubt that's true. People are free to do what ever they want. It's their own life.
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