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Guilty Pleasures; Whatever Floats your Boats
Topic Started: Dec 21 2011, 12:03 AM (70,810 Views)
Doctor Magnus Warlock
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Hello Redd,

I would say no. Romita on Superman is solely designed to boost the sales on the title. Despite Superman's world-wide popularity, he's been having sales problems off & on pretty much since Marvel set up shop back in 1961. DC also put their top writer, Geoff Johns, on the title. Superman, by name alone, cannot crack into the 10 comics by sales. Superman is only as good as the creative team behind him.

Batman is pretty much the most popular character in comics. Batman is the only DC character that can compete against Marvel in terms of comics sales, non-comics media cartoons & films. Well, Batman is the only character that DC & Warner Brothers put their faith in.

With Batman & Superman, you basically have the first two modern superheroes.

Their animosity comes from the ground-breaking story, "The Dark Knight Returns", written and drawn by iconic comics writer, Frank Miller ("Sin City" & "300"). That story, set in the future, featured a middle-aged Batman coming out of retirement after a 10 year hiatus to bring back order to Gotham City.

The activities of the elderly Dark Knight brings back hope to people. The government, fearing Batman's popularity (who even converted street gangs to his cause) sends Superman, now pretty much a tool for the government, to stop him.

The theme of Batman, who never trusted the establishment vs. Superman, who rarely questions authority, has turned the once BFF's into occasional adversaries.

Here is a glimpse of the story.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Knight_Returns

The story was even made into a two-part animated feature.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batman:_The_Dark_Knight_Returns_(film)

Casting Ben Affleck as an older Batman is based off this story.

By nature of their abilities, origins, family dynamics, costumes, and more, Superman & Batman are opposites. When working together, they are the ultimate good cop/bad cop duo.

Every instance of them not getting along comes from this story. They other thing is that DC heroes are known for being best friends where Marvel is known for their heroes not getting along such as Wolverine vs. Cyclops (X-Men teammates), Hulk vs. Thing, Iron Man vs. Captain America (Avengers teammates), Daredevil vs. Punisher (another famous rivalry Frank Miller created), Captain Marvel (Carol Danvers) vs. Rogue, Wolverine vs. Hulk, Submariner vs. Hulk, and more. Much of the conflict between them is probably based on the Marvel tradition.
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Doctor Magnus Warlock
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Redd,

What side do you pick between X-Men and the Justice League?
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Doctor Magnus Warlock
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Here are stills from the animated adaption.

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Here is the cover to their epic battle.

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Here are scenes from their battle in the comic.

As you can see, Batman must wear heavy armor to even stand a chance against Superman. It also helps that Superman does not go all out on his best friend.

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If Batman is not wearing some sort of armor, he is usually armed with kryptonite he stole from Lex Luthor. Superman trusts Batman with the kryptonite. He knows Batman will use it should the Man of Steel ever goes rogue.

For example, Batman used it when Superman was being controlled by Poison Ivy (a Batman foe).

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This is a funny one.

Posted Image
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reddgirl64

Saul,

It's a hard sell to me, BM v SM...

I know their personalities are polar opposites, I really hate the 'good guy' image of SM, however I love the 'standoffish' nature of BM.

I'm waiting on this movie, 2016 is a long time to wait. Aren't they making Man of Steel II, along with this movie?

Did you think Man of Steel, portrayed how, if the aliens from another planet came here, there's not much, humans could do?

Ahh, X-Men vs Justice League...it was a draw. My brother knows some mutants I've never heard of..and the powers they have, could easily destroy, or cripple SM.

One alone, was Colossus. He named others, Cylop, Xavier, Darwin, and Mimic..

My question was, can their powers work on Superman? If so, then the Mutants could possible, maybe, just maybe, defeat the Justice League! :D

and your choice?
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reddgirl64

He also said the X-Men would easily defeat any member of Marvel!

Yikes...

Juggernaut:
He's a super powered human, not a mutant. Powers: Superhuman strength and endurance, constant protective force field that grants invulnerability. Acts as an "irresistible force." Is virtually immortal, and does not need to eat or breathe..

vs

The Hulk:
A large green humanoid that possesses near limitless superhuman strength and great invulnerability, attributes that grow more potent the angrier he becomes..

However-Hulk's strength has been depicted as sometimes limited by Banner's subconscious influence; when Jean Grey psionically "shut Banner off".

See, they are both humans, with minds and emotions, sometimes seen as weaknesses in battle.

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reddgirl64



Are you into the Watcher?

Quote:
 
Marvel is just weeks away from launching their latest big summer event: Original Sin. Written by Jason Aaron and illustrated by Mike Deodato, Original Sin explores what happens when the Watcher is murdered and his eyes are stolen. Yeah, that's right (and gross) -- the Watcher's eyes contain everything he has ever seen, including all the dark secrets Marvel's heroes have been hiding. Who killed the Watcher? What will happen when his many secrets are leaked to the world? Those questions form the basis of the conflict in Original Sin.


http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/04/15/5-things-you-need-to-know-to-read-marvels-original-sin
Edited by reddgirl64, Jul 10 2014, 12:56 PM.
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Doctor Magnus Warlock
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reddgirl64
Jul 10 2014, 11:44 AM
Saul,

It's a hard sell to me, BM v SM...

I know their personalities are polar opposites, I really hate the 'good guy' image of SM, however I love the 'standoffish' nature of BM.

I'm waiting on this movie, 2016 is a long time to wait. Aren't they making Man of Steel II, along with this movie?

Did you think Man of Steel, portrayed how, if the aliens from another planet came here, there's not much, humans could do?

Ahh, X-Men vs Justice League...it was a draw. My brother knows some mutants I've never heard of..and the powers they have, could easily destroy, or cripple SM.

One alone, was Colossus. He named others, Cylop, Xavier, Darwin, and Mimic..

My question was, can their powers work on Superman? If so, then the Mutants could possible, maybe, just maybe, defeat the Justice League! :D

and your choice?
I think the problem with Superman is that you need the near perfect combination of writing and acting (if presented in live action).

The Christopher Reeve Superman works, and still holds up because of the actor's portrayal. Superman is a god, and he should have very easy confidence. If you think he is corny, he does not care. Superman's humanity comes from his mid-western upbringings. He is the son of a farmer. Folks get the concept twisted by trying to make him edgy. It rarely works. Superman is not that different than Captain America, in terms of nobility, and having far from cynical values. Batman, the cynic, may seem way cooler, and he has mocked Superman, but deep down, he wishes he were more like him. Superman should be laid back, not full of angst.

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Batman is a hot mess, and that is what works for him.

Well, an army of Kryptonians is a big deal. The destruction they caused was believable. Kryptonians have more weaknesses than just Kryptonite. They have no defense against magic. They can be beaten to death by an equally powerful being. These concepts should be explored on film. I just wished Superman was not such a novice in dealing with them. In most incarnations, Superman received training & knowledge from his birth father, Jor-El. Superman has his birth father's advanced education, but it is tempered with his adopted human father's Jonathan Kent's heart. For me, Superman has to have both to fully work.

Superman, alone should wipe the floor with the X-Men, imo. The X-Men mostly are relegated to each mutant having one power-set. Superman has a slew of powers. Colossus is strong, but not that strong. Colossus is weaker than the Hulk.

Superman is susceptible to mental assault, so mutants like Xavier, Jean Grey, and Emma Frost can finish him after a prolonged battle with the X-Men. I don't think the X-Men would beat the Justice League in a fight.

A few years ago, Marvel & DC presented the Avengers vs. the Justice League. It was shown what was always believed, that the DC heroes are more powerful than the Marvel heroes.

Superman, along with the Justice League would eventually beat the X-Men in a battle. The Avengers just recently waged war, and defeated the X-Men.

Believe it or not, Aquaman should beat the hell out of Wolverine. Wonder Woman would defeat Colossus. Superman's heat vision would overpower Cyclops' optic force beams.

Then you have that scheming Batman studying the X-men, and figuring out ways to outmaneuver them. Watching Batman & Cyclops (two emotionally detached master planners) out scheme each would be fun, though!

I love the Avengers, but the Justice League is the most powerful team. It's like the 1992 Dream Team (NBA) vs. any team within the last 20 years.
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Doctor Magnus Warlock
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reddgirl64
Jul 10 2014, 11:58 AM
He also said the X-Men would easily defeat any member of Marvel!

Yikes...

Juggernaut:
He's a super powered human, not a mutant. Powers: Superhuman strength and endurance, constant protective force field that grants invulnerability. Acts as an "irresistible force." Is virtually immortal, and does not need to eat or breathe..

vs

The Hulk:
A large green humanoid that possesses near limitless superhuman strength and great invulnerability, attributes that grow more potent the angrier he becomes..

However-Hulk's strength has been depicted as sometimes limited by Banner's subconscious influence; when Jean Grey psionically "shut Banner off".

See, they are both humans, with minds and emotions, sometimes seen as weaknesses in battle.

Well, Juggernaut has defeated the Hulk on more than one occasion. The Juggernaut is powered by magic. The Juggernaut could beat Superman, if Superman did not use his brains.

Juggernaut's main weakness is his vulnerability to telepathic assault once his helmet is removed. It must suck for Cain's step-brother, Charles Xavier to be the most powerful telepath.

The Hulk has to use intelligence in order to beat Cain Marko.

I do like the Hulk vs. Juggernaut fights as it is boring to me when the Hulk gets stronger as his anger increases as his opponents do not.

Without Banner, the Hulk is nothing more than a mindless animal bent on destruction.
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Doctor Magnus Warlock
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reddgirl64
Jul 10 2014, 12:54 PM


Are you into the Watcher?

Quote:
 
Marvel is just weeks away from launching their latest big summer event: Original Sin. Written by Jason Aaron and illustrated by Mike Deodato, Original Sin explores what happens when the Watcher is murdered and his eyes are stolen. Yeah, that's right (and gross) -- the Watcher's eyes contain everything he has ever seen, including all the dark secrets Marvel's heroes have been hiding. Who killed the Watcher? What will happen when his many secrets are leaked to the world? Those questions form the basis of the conflict in Original Sin.


http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/04/15/5-things-you-need-to-know-to-read-marvels-original-sin
We are on the same page!!!

I was just about to post that image.

The Watcher is a favorite character. He is a god-like being pleaded to only watch, but never interfere. His problem was he became emotionally attached to Earth, and has helped the Marvel heroes survive numerous catastrophic events.

Being the Watcher, Uatu knew just about everything. He was recently murdered, and his knowledge was stolen by an unknown party.

That story is still unfolding, and the ramifications are wide-spread.
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Doctor Magnus Warlock
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Here is a larger picture.

Posted Image
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