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Does America still have a Race problem
Topic Started: Jan 18 2010, 10:05 PM (3,793 Views)
Elle
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Last Black man
Jan 20 2010, 09:36 PM
Elle
Jan 20 2010, 09:02 PM
Yes, Europeans were light years ahead of the Native Americans and Africans in language, science, the arts, mathematics, exploration, the building of armies, and expansion. What were Natives Americans and Africans doing during this time to contribute to the advancement of mankind? All they were doing was practicing isolationism and tribalism. My question is why were those civilizations so behind the times? Why was their development so impeded even before the Spice Routes? Many African Americans today can not even get beyond their own tribal mentality.
I thought we have overcome this type of foolishness, but as i have always maintain that we need to really teach history not just his story. The moors had to save you guys from the northsman back in the day. How do you think Columbus got over here? Did you know Timbutktu was the world first university? Where was the first Chruch?

Education was universal in Moorish Spain, available to the most humble, while 99% of Christian Europe was illiterate—not even the kings could read or write. In the tenth and eleventh centuries, public libraries did not exist in Christian Europe, while Moorish Spain had more than seventy, of which the one in Cordoba contained over six hundred thousand manuscripts. There were more than seventeen great universities in Moorish Spain, while Christian Europe had only two universities of any value.

Scientific progress in astronomy, chemistry, geography, mathematics, physics, and philosophy flourished in Moorish Spain. Scholars, artist and scientists formed learning societies, while scientific congresses were organized to promote research and to facilitate the spread of knowledge.

The Moors also introduced the manufacture of gunpowder into Europe, which their enemies later adopted, using this explosive to drive them back to Africa.

Have you ever wondered why some people in Spain have some tan in their skins? ;)
I agree. And Spain IS in Europe (They are not Native Americans nor Africans no matter how much tan is in there skin. By the way, there are naturally blonds Spaniards with pale skin. Ever been there?).
Edited by Elle, Jan 20 2010, 10:18 PM.
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Last Black man
Jan 20 2010, 09:56 PM
bastonecannella
Jan 20 2010, 09:51 PM
Last Black man
Jan 20 2010, 09:48 PM
bastonecannella
Jan 20 2010, 09:40 PM
Last Black man
Jan 20 2010, 09:36 PM
Elle
Jan 20 2010, 09:02 PM
Yes, Europeans were light years ahead of the Native Americans and Africans in language, science, the arts, mathematics, exploration, the building of armies, and expansion. What were Natives Americans and Africans doing during this time to contribute to the advancement of mankind? All they were doing was practicing isolationism and tribalism. My question is why were those civilizations so behind the times? Why was their development so impeded even before the Spice Routes? Many African Americans today can not even get beyond their own tribal mentality.
I thought we have overcome this type of foolishness, but as i have always maintain that we need to really teach history not just his story. The moors had to save you guys from the northsman back in the day. How do you think Columbus got over here? Did you know Timbutktu was the world first university? Where was the first Chruch?

Education was universal in Moorish Spain, available to the most humble, while 99% of Christian Europe was illiterate—not even the kings could read or write. In the tenth and eleventh centuries, public libraries did not exist in Christian Europe, while Moorish Spain had more than seventy, of which the one in Cordoba contained over six hundred thousand manuscripts. There were more than seventeen great universities in Moorish Spain, while Christian Europe had only two universities of any value.

Scientific progress in astronomy, chemistry, geography, mathematics, physics, and philosophy flourished in Moorish Spain. Scholars, artist and scientists formed learning societies, while scientific congresses were organized to promote research and to facilitate the spread of knowledge.

The Moors also introduced the manufacture of gunpowder into Europe, which their enemies later adopted, using this explosive to drive them back to Africa.

Have you ever wondered why some people in Spain have some tan in their skins? ;)
You take for granted that she knows who the Moors were. Maybe you should explain that part.
I assumed she read Shakespeare in high school and will remember he described them being as black as ink; but you know some people do not want to give us credit and try to prevent that the moors were white men with a tan. If that is the case, the people in Spain will not have that color in their gene pool!
don't assume. anyone can get a GED these days and go to junior college.
:D LOL!
I should apologize. I can't help it sometimes. Certain observations are hard for me to ignore. Like Ren's sig says, what you resist persists.
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Last Black man
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Elle, you must have been a sleep in history class because what she posted is common knowledge. Plus check this out:

References
^ a b c d e f g h i j k l spice trade (Encyclopedia Britannica 2002)
^ a b "Traders of the Gold and Incense Road". Message of the Republic of Yemen, Berlin.
^ a b Fage 1975: 164
^ a b c Donkin 2003
^ a b Corn & Glasserman 1999: Prologue
^ a b c d Gama, Vasco da. The Columbia Encyclopedia, Sixth Edition. Columbia University Press.
^ Rawlinson 2001: 11-12
^ a b Shaw 2003: 426
^ Lach 1994: 13
^ At any rate, when Gallus was prefect of Egypt, I accompanied him and ascended the Nile as far as Syene and the frontiers of Ethiopia, and I learned that as many as one hundred and twenty vessels were sailing from Myos Hormos to India, whereas formerly, under the Ptolemies, only a very few ventured to undertake the voyage and to carry on traffic in Indian merchandise. - Strabo (II.5.12.); The Geography of Strabo. Vol. I of the Loeb Classical Library edition, 1917..
^ Ball 2000: 131
^ Ball 2000: 137
^ a b c Donkin 2003: 59
^ Donkin 2003: 64
^ a b Crone 2004: 10
^ a b Donkin 2003: 91-92
^ a b c Donkin 2003: 92
^ Donkin 2003: 65
^ a b Donkin 2003: 87
^ a b c Donkin 2003: 88
^ Catholic Encyclopedia: Bartolomeu Dias Retrieved November 29, 2007
^ The First Voyage of Columbus Retrieved November 29, 2007
^ Catholic Encyclopedia: Pedralvarez Cabral Retrieved November 29, 2007
^ a b c d e f g h Donkin 2003: 169
^ Donkin 2003: 170
^ a b c Corn & Glasserman 1999: 217
^ a b Corn & Glasserman 1999: 214
^ a b Corn & Glasserman 1999: 214
^ Corn & Glasserman 1999: 214
^ a b Donkin 2003: 162-163
^ Corn & Glasserman 1999: 265
^ Corn & Glasserman 1999: 252
^ a b c Corn & Glasserman 1999: 279
^ Corn & Glasserman 1999
^ Donkin 2003: 67
^ Donkin 2003: 69
^ a b c Corn & Glasserman 1999
^ Corn & Glasserman 1999: 105
^ Collingham 56: 2006
^ Corn & Glasserman 1999: 203
^ Collingham 245: 2006
^ Collingham 61: 2006
^ Collingham 69: 2006
^ Collingham 129: 2006
[edit]
Bibliography
Ball, Warwick (2000). Rome in the East: The Transformation of an Empire. Routledge. ISBN 0415113768.
Collingham, Lizzie (December 2005). Curry: A Tale of Cooks and Conquerors. Oxford University Press. ISBN 0195172418.
Corn, Charles; Glasserman, Debbie (March 1999). The Scents of Eden: A History of the Spice Trade. Kodansha America. ISBN 1568362498.
Crone, Patricia (2004). Meccan Trade And The Rise Of Islam. Gorgias Press LLC. ISBN 1593331029.
Dalby, Andrew (2002). Dangerous Tastes: The Story of Spices. Berkley: University of California Press. ISBN 0520236742.
Donkin, Robin A. (August 2003). Between East and West: The Moluccas and the Traffic in Spices Up to the Arrival of Europeans. Diane Publishing Company. ISBN 0871692481.
Fage, John Donnelly; et al. (1975). The Cambridge History of Africa. Cambridge University Press. ISBN 0521215927.
Freedman, Paul (2008). Out of the East: Spices and the Medieval Imagination. New Haven: Yale University Press. ISBN 0300151357.
Keay, John (2006). The Spice Route: A History. Berkley: University of California Press. ISBN 0520254163.
Krondl, Michael (2007). The Taste of Conquest: The Rise and Fall of the Three Great Cities of Spice. New York: Ballantine Books. ISBN 0345480848.
Lach, Donald Frederick (1994). Asia in the Making of Europe: The Century of Discovery. Book 1.. University of Chicago Press. ISBN 0226467317.
Miller, James Innes (1969). The Spice Trade of the Roman Empire. Oxford: Oxford University Press. ISBN 978-0198142645.
Morton, Timothy (2000). Poetics of Spice: Romantic Consumerism and the Exotic. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. ISBN 9780521026666.
Rawlinson, Hugh George (2001). Intercourse Between India and the Western World: From the Earliest Times of the Fall of Rome. Asian Educational Services. ISBN 8120615492.
Ray, Himanshu Prabha (2003). The Archaeology of Seafaring in Ancient South Asia. Cambridge University Press. ISBN 0521011094.
Shaw, Ian (2003). The Oxford History of Ancient Egypt. Oxford University Press. ISBN 0192804588.
Turner, Jack (2004). Spice: The History of a Temptation. New York: Alfred A. Knopf. ISBN 0375407219.
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Last Black man
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You said it make you look weak by not taking over other nations. Most people do not have a war like mind and would rather live in peace.
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Having been to Spain, particularly, in Sevilla, the Catedral de Sevilla was a mosque at one point built by the Moors. In fact, you can see the spoils the Europeans stole from the Moors in the cathedral.

I also went to Tarifa which is a few hours south of Sevilla. And then took a ferry ride of about an hour and change into Tangier, Morocco. So Africa is really just a stone's throw from southern Spain and even in those days, the trip would have been relatively short.
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Elle
 
“I ask that you produce a source to substantiate the first sentence of your statement. I'll try to be brief with my responses to your other allegations.”
-Galileo Galilei, Plato, Aristotle, The Vikings, Peter the Great, Leonardo de Vinci, Emperor Augustus, Queen Isabella, etc. etc. etc. etc. Sources? Available at any library.



"What exactly do you consider the advancement of mankind? Moving from continent to continent, enslaving, stealing, colonizing, killing, raping and pillaging is not representative of the advancement of mankind. All of the aforementioned represent crimes against humanity."
-See above. THAT is the advancement of humanity. Conquering other nations to exploit resources is intelligent and yet a sign of weakness of those who allowed themselves to be exploited.

2. "Isolationism and tribalism? Sounds familiar.....Jim Crow, perhaps?"
-It should, it is your history and your culture.

3. "What makes you think that the civilizations that you mentioned were behind the times? The fact these groups weren't traveling the globe, colonizing, and forcing people to pray to their GOD doesn't mean that they were behind the times. They were simply minding their own business."
-That is what isolationism is. Study China from its beginnings to the Boxer Rebellion until Bill Clinton gave China most favored nation status to understand the detrimental effects of society as a result of isolationism.

4. "What makes you think that their development was impeded before the Spice Routes (one of my favorite subjects). Asians and Middle Easterns had a pretty good thing going. It was the Europeans that got greedy and pretty much wrecked the joint. I think that WIKI entry sums this up quite nicely."
-What was their “pretty good thing”? I need specifics before I can respond. Wikipedia is not considered an accepted source by academia. Therefore, I have to reject it based on the same standard.

5. "Your last sentence? It's a grand, sweeping generalization that plagues ALL groups and not just African Americans. Have you read THIS article? It appears that White people are having the same tribal, isolationist issues."
-YOU just made a sweeping generalization. However, look at your community and the proliferation of black on black crime. I can think of no better example of tribalism other than Al Qaida. The article you referenced is about sports. That has nothing to do with this topic.


1. Crimes committed by White people over the centuries is NOT an advancement of mankind.

2. The examples that you cited do not prove that Europeans were light years ahead of Africans in no way form of fashion.

3. I am aware of the definition of isolationism. Just because a group isn't out raping and pillaging the globe, doesn't mean that they aren't advancing. Based on your own statements, people don't advance until they've been conquered by Whites. Ick... I'll pass on that one. *cough*EGYPT*cough

4. I TOTALLY agree that Wikipedia is not an acceptable source for academics. This was a courtesy to you considering how often you've cited it as a source on this forum.

5. I didn't make a grand sweeping statement. I gave an example of how whites are practicing isolationism. An all-white baseball team? Really? If that's not isolationism/protectionism I don't know what is.
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Geechie
Jan 20 2010, 10:36 PM
Elle
 
“I ask that you produce a source to substantiate the first sentence of your statement. I'll try to be brief with my responses to your other allegations.”
-Galileo Galilei, Plato, Aristotle, The Vikings, Peter the Great, Leonardo de Vinci, Emperor Augustus, Queen Isabella, etc. etc. etc. etc. Sources? Available at any library.



"What exactly do you consider the advancement of mankind? Moving from continent to continent, enslaving, stealing, colonizing, killing, raping and pillaging is not representative of the advancement of mankind. All of the aforementioned represent crimes against humanity."
-See above. THAT is the advancement of humanity. Conquering other nations to exploit resources is intelligent and yet a sign of weakness of those who allowed themselves to be exploited.

2. "Isolationism and tribalism? Sounds familiar.....Jim Crow, perhaps?"
-It should, it is your history and your culture.

3. "What makes you think that the civilizations that you mentioned were behind the times? The fact these groups weren't traveling the globe, colonizing, and forcing people to pray to their GOD doesn't mean that they were behind the times. They were simply minding their own business."
-That is what isolationism is. Study China from its beginnings to the Boxer Rebellion until Bill Clinton gave China most favored nation status to understand the detrimental effects of society as a result of isolationism.

4. "What makes you think that their development was impeded before the Spice Routes (one of my favorite subjects). Asians and Middle Easterns had a pretty good thing going. It was the Europeans that got greedy and pretty much wrecked the joint. I think that WIKI entry sums this up quite nicely."
-What was their “pretty good thing”? I need specifics before I can respond. Wikipedia is not considered an accepted source by academia. Therefore, I have to reject it based on the same standard.

5. "Your last sentence? It's a grand, sweeping generalization that plagues ALL groups and not just African Americans. Have you read THIS article? It appears that White people are having the same tribal, isolationist issues."
-YOU just made a sweeping generalization. However, look at your community and the proliferation of black on black crime. I can think of no better example of tribalism other than Al Qaida. The article you referenced is about sports. That has nothing to do with this topic.


1. Crimes committed by White people over the centuries is NOT an advancement of mankind.

2. The examples that you cited do not prove that Europeans were light years ahead of Africans in no way form of fashion.

3. I am aware of the definition of isolationism. Just because a group isn't out raping and pillaging the globe, doesn't mean that they aren't advancing. Based on your own statements, people don't advance until they've been conquered by Whites. Ick... I'll pass on that one. *cough*EGYPT*cough

4. I TOTALLY agree that Wikipedia is not an acceptable source for academics. This was a courtesy to you considering how often you've cited it as a source on this forum.

5. I didn't make a grand sweeping statement. I gave an example of how whites are practicing isolationism. An all-white baseball team? Really? If that's not isolationism/protectionism I don't know what is.
You have me rolling on the floor with number 5! But you are so on point that it funny!
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Jan 20 2010, 10:46 PM
Geechie
Jan 20 2010, 10:36 PM
Elle
 
“I ask that you produce a source to substantiate the first sentence of your statement. I'll try to be brief with my responses to your other allegations.”
-Galileo Galilei, Plato, Aristotle, The Vikings, Peter the Great, Leonardo de Vinci, Emperor Augustus, Queen Isabella, etc. etc. etc. etc. Sources? Available at any library.



"What exactly do you consider the advancement of mankind? Moving from continent to continent, enslaving, stealing, colonizing, killing, raping and pillaging is not representative of the advancement of mankind. All of the aforementioned represent crimes against humanity."
-See above. THAT is the advancement of humanity. Conquering other nations to exploit resources is intelligent and yet a sign of weakness of those who allowed themselves to be exploited.

2. "Isolationism and tribalism? Sounds familiar.....Jim Crow, perhaps?"
-It should, it is your history and your culture.

3. "What makes you think that the civilizations that you mentioned were behind the times? The fact these groups weren't traveling the globe, colonizing, and forcing people to pray to their GOD doesn't mean that they were behind the times. They were simply minding their own business."
-That is what isolationism is. Study China from its beginnings to the Boxer Rebellion until Bill Clinton gave China most favored nation status to understand the detrimental effects of society as a result of isolationism.

4. "What makes you think that their development was impeded before the Spice Routes (one of my favorite subjects). Asians and Middle Easterns had a pretty good thing going. It was the Europeans that got greedy and pretty much wrecked the joint. I think that WIKI entry sums this up quite nicely."
-What was their “pretty good thing”? I need specifics before I can respond. Wikipedia is not considered an accepted source by academia. Therefore, I have to reject it based on the same standard.

5. "Your last sentence? It's a grand, sweeping generalization that plagues ALL groups and not just African Americans. Have you read THIS article? It appears that White people are having the same tribal, isolationist issues."
-YOU just made a sweeping generalization. However, look at your community and the proliferation of black on black crime. I can think of no better example of tribalism other than Al Qaida. The article you referenced is about sports. That has nothing to do with this topic.


1. Crimes committed by White people over the centuries is NOT an advancement of mankind.

2. The examples that you cited do not prove that Europeans were light years ahead of Africans in no way form of fashion.

3. I am aware of the definition of isolationism. Just because a group isn't out raping and pillaging the globe, doesn't mean that they aren't advancing. Based on your own statements, people don't advance until they've been conquered by Whites. Ick... I'll pass on that one. *cough*EGYPT*cough

4. I TOTALLY agree that Wikipedia is not an acceptable source for academics. This was a courtesy to you considering how often you've cited it as a source on this forum.

5. I didn't make a grand sweeping statement. I gave an example of how whites are practicing isolationism. An all-white baseball team? Really? If that's not isolationism/protectionism I don't know what is.
You have me rolling on the floor with number 5! But you are so on point that it funny!
And then calling it the "All-American Basketball Association". I guess black folks aren't American now? Wish I had gotten the memo.
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Elle
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Last Black man
Jan 20 2010, 10:46 PM
Geechie
Jan 20 2010, 10:36 PM
Elle
 
“I ask that you produce a source to substantiate the first sentence of your statement. I'll try to be brief with my responses to your other allegations.”
-Galileo Galilei, Plato, Aristotle, The Vikings, Peter the Great, Leonardo de Vinci, Emperor Augustus, Queen Isabella, etc. etc. etc. etc. Sources? Available at any library.



"What exactly do you consider the advancement of mankind? Moving from continent to continent, enslaving, stealing, colonizing, killing, raping and pillaging is not representative of the advancement of mankind. All of the aforementioned represent crimes against humanity."
-See above. THAT is the advancement of humanity. Conquering other nations to exploit resources is intelligent and yet a sign of weakness of those who allowed themselves to be exploited.

2. "Isolationism and tribalism? Sounds familiar.....Jim Crow, perhaps?"
-It should, it is your history and your culture.

3. "What makes you think that the civilizations that you mentioned were behind the times? The fact these groups weren't traveling the globe, colonizing, and forcing people to pray to their GOD doesn't mean that they were behind the times. They were simply minding their own business."
-That is what isolationism is. Study China from its beginnings to the Boxer Rebellion until Bill Clinton gave China most favored nation status to understand the detrimental effects of society as a result of isolationism.

4. "What makes you think that their development was impeded before the Spice Routes (one of my favorite subjects). Asians and Middle Easterns had a pretty good thing going. It was the Europeans that got greedy and pretty much wrecked the joint. I think that WIKI entry sums this up quite nicely."
-What was their “pretty good thing”? I need specifics before I can respond. Wikipedia is not considered an accepted source by academia. Therefore, I have to reject it based on the same standard.

5. "Your last sentence? It's a grand, sweeping generalization that plagues ALL groups and not just African Americans. Have you read THIS article? It appears that White people are having the same tribal, isolationist issues."
-YOU just made a sweeping generalization. However, look at your community and the proliferation of black on black crime. I can think of no better example of tribalism other than Al Qaida. The article you referenced is about sports. That has nothing to do with this topic.


1. Crimes committed by White people over the centuries is NOT an advancement of mankind.

2. The examples that you cited do not prove that Europeans were light years ahead of Africans in no way form of fashion.

3. I am aware of the definition of isolationism. Just because a group isn't out raping and pillaging the globe, doesn't mean that they aren't advancing. Based on your own statements, people don't advance until they've been conquered by Whites. Ick... I'll pass on that one. *cough*EGYPT*cough

4. I TOTALLY agree that Wikipedia is not an acceptable source for academics. This was a courtesy to you considering how often you've cited it as a source on this forum.

5. I didn't make a grand sweeping statement. I gave an example of how whites are practicing isolationism. An all-white baseball team? Really? If that's not isolationism/protectionism I don't know what is.
You have me rolling on the floor with number 5! But you are so on point that it funny!
1. Crimes committed by White people over the centuries is NOT an advancement of mankind.
-Neither are crimes committed by people of color. Why do you keep bringing this up as if this was the only example I offered? There are none so blind as those who refuse to see.


2. The examples that you cited do not prove that Europeans were light years ahead of Africans in no way form of fashion.
-Then you refuse to see. You are not capable of being educated, apparently.

3. I am aware of the definition of isolationism. Just because a group isn't out raping and pillaging the globe, doesn't mean that they aren't advancing. Based on your own statements, people don't advance until they've been conquered by Whites. Ick... I'll pass on that one. *cough*EGYPT*cough
-But when a group is not studying mathematics, science, the arts, etc. etc. etc. then they aren’t advancing. Who bought up Egypt? In the present times, they are as backwards of a nation as Chad or Ethiopia.

4. I TOTALLY agree that Wikipedia is not an acceptable source for academics. This was a courtesy to you considering how often you've cited it as a source on this forum.
-This has been the only courtesy you have extended me but, thank you, I do not need it. I read real books.

5. I didn't make a grand sweeping statement. I gave an example of how whites are practicing isolationism. An all-white baseball team? Really? If that's not isolationism/protectionism I don't know what is.
-Not all whites are practicing isolationism. Can you really compare a violent gang to a white baseball team? If so, then let’s further delve into black tribalism; black Miss America, the NAACP, the Congressional Black Caucus, ACORN, BET, The One, Ebony Magazine, blackplanet.com, the segregation of churches, blackvoices.com, public housing, black history month, black fraternities and sororities, historically black colleges, the United Negro Fund, Black Student Union, Black Student Commission, Black Coaches & Administrators, etc. ad nauseum.

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Why is that All-American has to mean White American. Ok, so 'someone' obviously feels like he can't compete with the minorities and wants to take his ball and go home. Dude needs a ball-sack.
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