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Zelda RP
Topic Started: March 19, 2017, 8:54 am (2,104 Views)
Keith
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Approved! Welcome!

Ygg, I saw you asking about needing approval before joining and the answer is no. If there's something that needs to be changed I'll let you know but consider anything auto-approved. I trust people not to deliberately make Gods just yet.
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NTNP
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I feel almost compelled to make some version of Jake for this. You know it would be nice to write for him again... He has been such a reoccurring NPC in my DND games at school it could be fun.
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Keith
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Having Jake would be great. Hyrule is badly in need of a Red Wings!
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NTNP
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I was thinking maybe an older Jake. One who survived something like what he did in the other stories and left with the memories, regret and feelings from those adventures (simplified and not world ending). Maybe someone more balanced this time, intending to make the plot more than just be brought around by it. Seem acceptable?
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Keith
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Of course! The more plot-makers we have, the better.
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Keith
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How do you all want to handle improving or getting new techs/spells? Ranks from old CoH?
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Onime No Ryu
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I don't think introducing numbers into it would be a good idea if we're not using stats or some kinda system for anything else.

I'd just have plot points where "You have earned a new Ability" is announced, like after beating a boss or whatever. If people wanna upgrade something they already have, maybe just have them ask about it and give them an answer depending on how drastic the upgrade is and how often they seem to actually employ the ability so they can justify "getting better at it."
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Keith
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Wait no fuck all that garbage I posted before, I misunderstood you. Give people a slot for a new Skill every now and then, and let them upgrade their existing ones more or less freely so long as they've been using it. Genius.
Edited by Keith, March 31, 2017, 11:41 pm.
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NTNP
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Since we are all experienced grown ups here, what would you think of just letting the RPers track how many times they use a skill themselves in say a spoiler tag under their posts? Then every day 10 times we use it, it gains an upgrade point for that technique to either gain a new aspect, an extra element, a new effect etc? Heck we could even do the same general trick for the more physically inclined the same way. Take Tai, he has used martial attacks multiple times (with say a max of 2 usages per post) then at 10 he could have gained a new martial skill like the tiger style he used. Having things like that earned feels both fair and, more interestingly, provides an incentive for players to remain consistent in their styles of combat.
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Onime No Ryu
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NTNP
April 1, 2017, 8:49 am
Since we are all experienced grown ups here, what would you think of just letting the RPers track how many times they use a skill themselves in say a spoiler tag under their posts? Then every day 10 times we use it, it gains an upgrade point for that technique to either gain a new aspect, an extra element, a new effect etc? Heck we could even do the same general trick for the more physically inclined the same way. Take Tai, he has used martial attacks multiple times (with say a max of 2 usages per post) then at 10 he could have gained a new martial skill like the tiger style he used. Having things like that earned feels both fair and, more interestingly, provides an incentive for players to remain consistent in their styles of combat.
Keeping track of the numbers and setting arbitrary limits on it might be a little much, but that's basically what I was already saying. Also Burnt editted his post, which is good because I was super not feeling that stuff he had posted before.

If a person seems competent in writing the development of this power and its use, if they're not just skipping straight to OP-tier stuff, and if the idea is interesting, just let them have free reign with the abilities they already have. And after accomplishing certain milestones let 'em have a new slot for something different.
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Keith
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So, after the discussion in the Cbox there's a tie between using numbers for upgrading Skills and not, which means I'll have to violate my imitation Swiss neutrality:

I agree that having a set number of uses to upgrade a spell kind of screws things like Tai's Kaioken buff skill or Caleb's point-blank nuke.
However, it also gives people a concretely defined goal that they can work towards and I like it in that regard...

Having Skill Ranks be an indicator of mastery and Utility instead of Power was popular and I like it too. What this means is that when you upgrade Lightning Bolt from Rank 1 to Rank 2, you can add some kind of extra effect. "Chains to nearby targets," or "Melts target's armor and makes them vulnerable to physical damage." That kind of stuff.

This prevents situations where a Rank 5 Fireball is stronger than a Rank 2 Meteor simply because of the Rank, and prevents Meteor from becoming noncompetitive because the Fireball has more practical applications and is thus used more often.

The Power of a Skill is then a matter of the character's personal strength and items. Keep in mind that you'll be getting powerup forms from me as the story goes on.

So my tiebreaker is going to try to compromise. This is completely subject to change as needed depending on how well it does or doesn't work. It takes 10 uses of a skill within the narrative to Rank-Up. Once it has been ranked up, it takes another 10 uses at the new Rank to increase again (this is something that may need to be adjusted). When you add a new Rank, you can add some kind of utility to the spell. Keep track of your Skill usages somewhere, a spoiler at the end of your post like NTNP recommended is a good idea.

"More damage" is a valid utility because it makes things die faster. However, this tends to be more noticeable in video games where there's nice numbers for everything -- in something like this where power is highly ambiguous, I would recommend something more creative like "Explodes on contact" or "Guaranteed to ignite the target and cause burning damage." If you just go with "More damage" then the spell's functionality within the story doesn't really change. But it's up to you.

New slots for Skills are given out as the story progresses.

So, this leaves me with one last question regarding how you all want Ranks to be given out. Should a Skill upgrade its Rank automatically at the usage threshold, and new slots are given out through the story? OR, should I combine the upgrade with the new slot and let people pick which one they want?

With the former it will be necessary to put a (temporary) cap on Skill ranks so that they don't fly off the handle too quickly. With the latter a cap isn't necessary since the distribution is regulated.

Thoughts?
Edited by Keith, April 1, 2017, 11:13 am.
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Kazemitsu
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I'd go for abilities ranking up on their own while we gain a new ability slot as the story progresses. It makes it so we can have our utility upgrade but not be confined to very few select abilities that are slowly getting upgraded.

If we did it where we had to pick between upgrading an ability or get a new one it would make having to use it a certain amount of times kind of moot. You'd be forced to use an ability numerous times AND spend a skill point on it.
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Onime No Ryu
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I think the "Upgrade Point" should be awarded automatically but the actual upgraded tech/spell shouldn't immediately appear until after something like a rest, a character development moment, etc. Mostly to avoid mid-battle jumps in power, save for a few narrative moments where it might be good--for instance, you're firing off fireballs one after the other, but all of a sudden the 15th one you've fired now has homing ability. That would be bad, narratively. But a moment where the character is using their lightning magic and they're still being overpowered, then they realize "wait, i've been doing this all wrong!" or they're in a desperate situation where they're just instinctively trying to do something, ANYTHING, to save their friends, and now suddenly their lightning spell produces a chaining effect, that would be alright I think.

New Slots should be awarded at set intervals, and since those intervals are more likely at the END of a boss fight than during it, they could pretty much be used whenever the next opportunity came up to do so.
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NTNP
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I agree with Onime.
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Keith
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OK, that's a majority. I like Onime's idea too, so we'll use that.
Please update your character sheets with your Skills at Rank 1. I'll condense the info and add it to the sheet and world information once I get a post out for Onime and Kaze.
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Onime No Ryu
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Not to detract from the vote on Abilities but I've been talking with Burnt about some stuff and he said it'd be a good idea to see if anyone else wants in on it, since he wants the various plot threads of the RP to be more player-dependent.

Some of you might have seen where me and NTNP were talking in the Cbox about how Shadow of Mordor's army and Nemesis system is cool, and how it could easily fit the Zelda narrative. So on a whim and with the barest hint of a few plot ideas, I went through the Zelda Wikis and tried to sort the enemies out into what I felt were good "army" structures. I'll break this up into two spoiler sections, one detailing the lists and one detailing the plot ideas. All enemies that are named should have articles on the various wikis.

Monster Lists


Plot Ideas


Now, with all this laid out, there are two questions I have for all the players:

One, basic Yay Nay vote on whether you think all this should even be implemented, or if you think it'd cause too many problems or be too many hectic with different factions fighting it out.

Two, if you're into this idea, are there any NPCs you guys would like to take control of? Burnt's already called dibs on the Deku Kingdom and the Garo Assassins, and I personally was hoping to retain control of the Black Knight, Stalmaster, Vire, and the White Mane myself, but I can see how that might be seen as too much influence from one person on the plot since the higher rank the NPC, the more control they'd have over what the whole faction is doing.

So lemme know your thoughts and questions and whatnot, please and thanks.
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Kazemitsu
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No. To complicated for a fairly simple rp.
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NTNP
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I greatly approve of this system. With that being said, I would probably suggest that no one person control more than a single "army" that would be encountered. So let's look at the armies: the Dark Army, most humanoid but also the smallest. The Undead Horse, which by its nature wants death and destruction primarily. The Goblinoid army which we have already seen a glimpse of. And finally the non-affiliated forces that are forcibly domesticated. Beasts, magical creatures, Deku, Avians and elemental creatures primarily. So I would suggest for people interested in such things choose one main army and one sub army that would not be working together to allow two players to have some dominion over said enemy group. What do you all think?
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Keith
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I'm in agreement with it. If it would be a better idea to divide up the factions among players I'll take the entire Undead group instead of just the Garo. And the Deku Kingdom still.
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NTNP
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I would be interested in controlling a faction or two. In particular I greatly like the idea of the magical army (wizarobes, elementals, animated statues etc) in service to a major organization. After all, they have a lot of capabilities but lack the numbers to handle a true threat without meat sheilds. They would probably make a good addition to the Goblinoid army or the Dark Knight army. As far as what is left, if no one comes up with something for the "natural creatures" army I can run it although splitting them equally between the Goblinoids and the Dark Army make the most sense.
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Onime No Ryu
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So you guys would rather control an entire faction per player? Cause the way I meant it was that anyone who wanted to control an NPC could--whether that meant, for instance, I controlled the Black Knight and NTNP controlled the Iron Knuckle Captain and Kaze controlled the Kaiser Darknut, or likewise Burnt controlled the Stalmaster and I took the Death Sword with Kill controlling Bongo-Bongo.
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NTNP
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I feel like controlling an entire faction and systematically being the one controlling the generics and named foes from that organization would be the better option. So if we see a darknut, for example, we would expect it to be controlled by Onime the same way seeing a member of the Undead Horde would mean Burnt is in control.
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Keith
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How about both? They don't sound mutually exclusive. I think I personally can do more with just one class of units than an entire faction. Onime, since you were putting dibs on all three faction leaders did you have something planned for the three of them together?
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Onime No Ryu
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Keith
April 1, 2017, 4:22 pm
How about both? They don't sound mutually exclusive. I think I personally can do more with just one class of units than an entire faction. Onime, since you were putting dibs on all three faction leaders did you have something planned for the three of them together?
The only thing I had planned was the conflict between the Undead Hordes wanting to murder everything and the Dark Army wanting to engineer a never-ending battleground, but even then I didn't have a concrete outline or anything. I just wanted to introduce them as having a particular goal and some options that would further said goal, and let things grow organically from there. I was going to suggest whoever had the Undead to have a Moa (those floating eyeball things) spying on what's going on in the Moblin Camp, which would then report the results to Stalmaster, who would begin to stir his army from within the ancient ruins in the Gerudo Desert/Haunted Wastelands. From there they might go to the Lost Woods, since people who get lost there turn into Stalfos, and try to recruit more soldiers. After that it's just a matter of "bringing death" to whatever area or village presents the best/closest opportunity. For the Dark Army I was going to suggest having the Black Knight and his forces crush one of the villages under the COL's territory, completely cannibalizing it for supplies and raw materials he would then use to keep his army going while he marched to whatever else--whether it be Goron City to steal their mines and the metal inside, the Zora's Domain to use its empty halls as his home base, or whatever.

I never came up with goals for the other factions, I was just gonna leave that up to whoever controlled their leaders.

Although Kill said he didn't really want it to turn into a Wargame, that was kind of appealing to me, honestly--having the "Present" conflict of our player characters as Heroes doing their thing, and then zooming out every so often to address faction plots on a "Macro" level, which then INFLUENCES the Present Conflicts. Maybe Kaze decides he wants the Beasts to join up with the Dark Army as mercenaries. Maybe NTNP takes a high ranking Imp Poe character and possesses the captain of the militia in Castle Town, so he can work out a way to make them vulnerable for the rest of his army--and the Player characters, who have stopped in town to stock up on supplies, somehow discover this and have to do something about it.

One other thing Kill pointed out though is that this doesn't really "change" anything--From the very start people could have done this kind of thing on their own if they wanted to, and if they want to do something similar to this but don't want to use the tiers that I came up with, or if they want to change the goals, that's all valid. The only reason I "organized" it the way I did is cause I thought it'd be cool and slightly less messy than the old days of CoH, where at one point I remember we had Vaati, the Empire, Niroth's Anti-Triforce characters, the Red Wings, and so on all competing for the Plot Spotlight. So even if we end up having a lot of player factions all trying to do their own thing, I just wanted to give it a format that made it easy to see at a glance who the top dogs were and what kind of themes you could expect in confronting that faction.
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Keith
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As far as the Wargame part goes - if this ends up gaining a Wargame aspect to it, it's probably not something that will happen until mid-game or later. No need to worry about it for the time being. It could be fun when the world is more established.

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One other thing Kill pointed out though is that this doesn't really "change" anything--From the very start people could have done this kind of thing on their own if they wanted to, and if they want to do something similar to this but don't want to use the tiers that I came up with, or if they want to change the goals, that's all valid. The only reason I "organized" it the way I did is cause I thought it'd be cool and slightly less messy than the old days of CoH, where at one point I remember we had Vaati, the Empire, Niroth's Anti-Triforce characters, the Red Wings, and so on all competing for the Plot Spotlight. So even if we end up having a lot of player factions all trying to do their own thing, I just wanted to give it a format that made it easy to see at a glance who the top dogs were and what kind of themes you could expect in confronting that faction.


There's no reason we can't use it as a tier list to represent relative monster power levels, even if nothing is done with it faction-wise. We could also try using them like "community factions" where they exist in the background with a vague goal and people can use them as needed. We also don't have to implement this right away or anything, the idea itself could just exist in the background until we as authors need or want it.
Edited by Keith, April 1, 2017, 5:24 pm.
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