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Some questions I wanna ask about a future RP idea
Topic Started: March 26, 2015, 12:56 pm (1,641 Views)
Onime No Ryu
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No. No more stamina, action points, whatever. That was the worst thing to appear in Sin's rp, aside from charisma that really didn't do anything except eat points. Let the dice do the talking if you decide to use dice, they'll dictate hits or misses like in dnd.


Action Points serve the same purpose that stamina did (provide a way to control the pace) but also provide a way to actually make the results of the Speed stat visible. A rogue who has more speed is going to be able to make more attacks/hit and run a lot better than a heavy knight who only swings once, but cleaves an enemy in two whenever he does. It makes things easier on me the way stamina made it easier on Sin, and it lets you guys see some tangible results from your stats--as Persona and others mentioned, that was one of the only problems with Sin's stats. They didn't actually feel like they affected the narrative. This way they do.

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I'd also prefer no hp counters. No it's not an excuse to be "lazy" but they only work in certain things and it's a hassle for everyone. You'd have to figure out how much damage the monsters do. Each and every monster type. Which would put work on the players to see how much this monster does to us, minus armor or whatever lowers damage. Hp just makes more work for everyone involved.


Considering all I actually have to do is make a profile for a "Peon" monster and then make profiles for NPC bosses like normal, it's not that much work on that end. Everyone else figuring out how much damage they receive/take isn't as hard as you make it out to be, and after a few tries it will likely become very routine. In addition, HP provides one thing that our RPs are ALWAYS lacking in: TENSION. There's never any tension because it's always a foregone conclusion that everyone will dodge everything and it's only a matter of waiting and writing it out until the enemy falls. Actual success will feel way better when you earn it. Trust me.

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Mp is fine though. Maybe make a type of point for special melee attacks as well? Since not everyone will be having magic or rely almost solely on magic to do anything.

For mages who need MP to attack, maybe put a limit on their potion usage as well. Like...overdoses of the stuff will knock you out? I don't know...


I wasn't really going to make "special melee attacks" a thing. I mean all they ever are is a punch or a slash with a special name, and the only reason they're ever necessary in the first place is to make Melee characters feel equal to mages. With more limitations on magic, that's already accomplished.

Potion cooldown might work or might not I dunno. We'll see how it goes. I feel like if I did that though it'd need to be the same for all kinds of potions, not just mana, because that's a good way to keep people from item spamming.
Edited by Onime No Ryu, March 30, 2015, 8:25 am.
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Kazemitsu
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Assassin
Sure on the potions. Mana potions would tax the mind, since I'm assuming that's where all the mana is coming from, to the point they black out. Health potions would tax the body, constantly regenerating at light speed, to the point the body is exhausted and knocks your ass out so it can actually rest naturally. Nips potion spamming.

I still don't like stamina or action points but it's going to be your system and unless I develop a platinum tongue with golden typing fingers in the next 5 seconds I'll never persuade you from the course.

HP never really gave me tension, even on do or die type games. You've seen how I am in monster Hunter, more often then not I forget I have hp. Before anyone starts, no it's not because of modern games and their "hide behind something and magically regenerate." thing.
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Onime No Ryu
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Kazemitsu
March 30, 2015, 8:31 am
HP never really gave me tension, even on do or die type games. You've seen how I am in monster Hunter, more often then not I forget I have hp. Before anyone starts, no it's not because of modern games and their "hide behind something and magically regenerate." thing.
and then you cart like a scrub and we fail the quest

having the possibility of failure is what i'm talking about
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Onime No Ryu
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Also I just realized that with this being the end of March, finals and last minute school projects may be coming up for a lot of people. Do you guys want me to delay this so that people don't have distractions/don't feel guilty about not being able to be here/don't feel discouraged about starting something and then having it slow down tremendously when test time comes around?

I know that means we'd be kinda bored with nothing really going on, but it would also give time to refine some things and get some build up going or something. If you guys are worried about how this modified DnD thing will work out, we could do some playtests or something.
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Perascamin
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Personally, I really enjoy complex statistics in an RP like with NT's Fire Emblem RPs on Lost Sanctum. It makes the battling phases very direct--it eliminates figts from taking up 38 or more posts. I think that having complex stats makes character building very fun. It makes you think a lot about having the perfectly built character for whatever it is you're going for.

I also enjoy equip systems with weapons and limited armor pieces. Damage values on weapons, defense values on armors, and HP factors make fighting very fair, accurate, swift, and easy.
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Perascamin
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I love failure in RPs. I hate it when we win all the of time and suffer no losses--without loss or failure, characters have no room to grow. When we don't have developing characters, it makes for a boring story. We've gotten much better about this in recent years. An open world RP will not work, ever. RPers need hand holding in one form or another from the author, because if they don't have a guide to lead them into the story, nothing is happening and it's unlovely. It's like making an RP about the Sims. Sure, everyone needs some downtime for character interaction, but too much of it is toxic just like any too much of a good thing.

I really enjoyed Silvareen, even though it never really got to take off. Your Tales of RP was amazing too and captured many Hearts. I'd love to play one of those again
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Onime No Ryu
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Perascamin
March 31, 2015, 11:23 am
Personally, I really enjoy complex statistics in an RP like with NT's Fire Emblem RPs on Lost Sanctum. It makes the battling phases very direct--it eliminates figts from taking up 38 or more posts. I think that having complex stats makes character building very fun. It makes you think a lot about having the perfectly built character for whatever it is you're going for.

I also enjoy equip systems with weapons and limited armor pieces. Damage values on weapons, defense values on armors, and HP factors make fighting very fair, accurate, swift, and easy.

I love failure in RPs. I hate it when we win all the of time and suffer no losses--without loss or failure, characters have no room to grow. When we don't have developing characters, it makes for a boring story. We've gotten much better about this in recent years. An open world RP will not work, ever. RPers need hand holding in one form or another from the author, because if they don't have a guide to lead them into the story, nothing is happening and it's unlovely. It's like making an RP about the Sims. Sure, everyone needs some downtime for character interaction, but too much of it is toxic just like any too much of a good thing.

I really enjoyed Silvareen, even though it never really got to take off. Your Tales of RP was amazing too and captured many Hearts. I'd love to play one of those again
this is exactly what i'm going for, pretty much, glad to know that i'm not alone in this.

I know people have some concerns about the calculations and the hard stats bogging down the creativity and whatnot of the narrative, but I personally think that having those hard limits will instead give framework for the story instead.

For instance, if Bob attacks Alice and she has an AC of 15 and he scores a 14, either one of them now have a situation that they can write from--Bob could just stop his post at the point of attack, like we usually do, and that opens Alice up to write about a very near miss, maybe a graze across her armor that throws sparks, maybe a lock of hair that's severed as the blade flashes an inch from her eyelashes, giving her a brief taste of fear. Or, Bob could write about the sudden panic as his attack, so meticulous, is dodged and for that brief moment between instants he is completely vulnerable to a counter, and doesn't know what his opponent is planning. Maybe he even overbalances and trips, or is worried about doing so. What flashes through his mind in those few seconds?

That's just another aspect of the system to me, and I think that makes some extra effort worth it.
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Perascamin
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I agree with that, too. With very hard stats like in NT's old FE RPs on Lost Sanctum, specifically the first one, we never really got to play with the system enough to the point where we saw it as something more than just a system. With more experience, we could make a very good system that helps to tell how our characters react to an attack.

Our community enjoys a system that is overtly simple--and while the stats for Sin's "Veil of" RPs somewhat accomplished a world of simple statistics, they lacked any real edge. The deciding factors for when an attack lands or misses was entirely up to the writers involved, and while they may or may not be called out for it eventually is a mute point...it's as if at least once per engagement, an attack could be avoided indefinitely, and after that, the attacks would be shrugged off or watered down to scratches.

What we really need in RPs that involve stats is an HP Value. The glorious thing about HP values is that it will certainly make the players much more cautious, and more caution means the avoidance of direct combat with multiple targets, setting a more realistic tone to combat aspect of RPs; for example, if a player has 2/10 of their HP left, the chances are that they're going to avoid headlong charges and expecting to dodge enough to not die.

I would suggest a system that reads like this:

Health Points: Straightforward, the value of a player's health which, upon reaching zero, results in death, fainting, or any other kind of removal from battle.

Strength: Damage modifier that increases the attack power of any weapons or abilities that deal damage via physical means; I.E, Swords, Spears, Bows. This value will also be used to increase the accuracy of an attack so long as it is physical.

Magic: Damage modifier that increases the attack power of any weapons or abilities that deal damage via magical means; I.E, Fire, Wind, Lightning. This value will also be used to increase the accuracy of an attack so long as it is magical.

Resilience: This is the factor that reduces any and all incoming damage resulting from attacks dealt through physical or magical means.

Avoidance: Factor that determines the ability of a character to avoid magical or physical attacks. You could also call this speed.

Resource Power (RP): Mana, Stamina, Chakra, whatever the player wants to call their energy source that fuels abilities.

There would also need to be a weapon system.

Iron Sword:
Power: 5
Accuracy: 70

Enchanted Wand:
Power: 3
Accuracy: 75

The power of a player's weapon would be added to their damage value, giving them their raw damage. Then, when they struck an opponent, that damage would be reduced by whatever the opposing side's resilience is. The raw accuracy would be calculated the same way--just add the weapon's accuracy with the damage modifier's value, then, after that, reduce the accuracy by the opponent's avoidance. Player's will attack a target once per turn.

Here's what I imagine a level one generic character would look like. Level 1 Characters will have 55 attribute points to spend. 10 of these points MUST go into Health Points. No statistic may be below 3. Resource Points will ALWAYS be 10/10 and thus, are not calculated in the distribution of attribute points.

Bobby Swordsman:

Health Points: 15/15

Strength: 5 ---> 10 (Iron Sword, Accuracy @ 75)

Magic: 3

Resilience: 7

Avoidance: 25

Resource Power (RP): 10/10

VS.

Jane Battlemage:

Health Points: 10/10

Strength: 5

Magic: 15 ---> 18 (Enchanted Wand, Accuracy @ 90)

Resilience: 3

Avoidance: 22

Resource Power (RP): 10/10

Phase one, FIGHT: Bobby attacks Jane, she will resist 3 out of 10 possible damage and have a 53% chance of being hit. Jane is well within the realm of being capable of dodging this first or second attack made by Bobby, but if she dodges more than one of those attacks--she is gamebreaking.

Phase Two, FIGHT: Jane attacks Bobby and Bobby will resist 7 out of 18 potential damage points and have a 65% chance of being hit. The chances are that Bobby is capable of fairly avoiding one of Jane attacks during this engagement.

Results: Bobby misses his attack on Jane, resulting in 0 damage to her. Jane lands her attack, resulting in 11 damage to Bobby, leaving him at 4/15 HP

In the next round, Bobby would likely hit Jane, resulting in her having 3/10 HP, and Jane would likely miss her attack on Bobby, resulting in Bobby remaining at 4/15 HP.

In the next round, they could use abilities, which ill write a new post for while Onime reviews this one.
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Perascamin
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Resource Points (RP) will be spent on the abilities involving any PC or NPC. Abilities are special in that they could allow you to attack twice in the same turn, increase a statistic during one battle phase, or anything else you could think of. They would never be anything crazy or too game-breaking. An ability can only be used once per turn, and during either phase of the turn.

Bobby's Abilities:

Swift Strike: Allows the player to strike again after an attack, but the second attack's damage is reduced by half if it's able to land. (Cost: -5 RP)

Inner Fire: The player will not attack this turn, but will survive any battle damage that would bring them below 1 HP. (Cost: -5 RP)

Jane's Abilities:

Focus: Increase the power of a magical attack by 5 during one battle phase. This amplifier is NOT added to accuracy. (Cost: -5 RP)

Disengage: Increase Avoidance by two for one turn, but sacrifice the ability to attack. (Cost: -5 RP)

Round Three, Fight!

Bobby uses Swift Strike, but not wanting to risk damage, Jane uses Disengage to reduce her chance of being hit to 31%. He will miss both attacks, and at the beginning of the fourth turn Bobby activates Inner fire while Jane uses Focus--Bobby survives with 1/15 of his HP. They are both at 2/10 RP now, since players will regenerate 1 RP per turn. This can go one of two ways:

Bobby will find his target and kill Jane, or Jane will dodge and then kill him.
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Onime No Ryu
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Our community enjoys a system that is overtly simple--and while the stats for Sin's "Veil of" RPs somewhat accomplished a world of simple statistics, they lacked any real edge. The deciding factors for when an attack lands or misses was entirely up to the writers involved, and while they may or may not be called out for it eventually is a mute point...it's as if at least once per engagement, an attack could be avoided indefinitely, and after that, the attacks would be shrugged off or watered down to scratches.

What we really need in RPs that involve stats is an HP Value. The glorious thing about HP values is that it will certainly make the players much more cautious, and more caution means the avoidance of direct combat with multiple targets, setting a more realistic tone to combat aspect of RPs; for example, if a player has 2/10 of their HP left, the chances are that they're going to avoid headlong charges and expecting to dodge enough to not die.

Right. But just HP isn't enough, because then it's just a matter of pumping that one stat or defense or saving up for armor or whatever until attacks can be tanked with relative safety.

However, I feel like the system you outlined currently has too much to it. I'll explain in a bit.
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Strength: Damage modifier that increases the attack power of any weapons or abilities that deal damage via physical means; I.E, Swords, Spears, Bows. This value will also be used to increase the accuracy of an attack so long as it is physical.


You don't want to double dip with stats in the same situations if it can be avoided. If Strength determines Damage value, that's a combat application, and determining whether a character can do something like force open a locked door is a Non Combat application. But determining both accuracy and damage is a double dip of Combat application. The reason you want to avoid double dipping is to make sure stats aren't redundant, and to make sure that one stat doesn't do more than the others. Same thing applies to your version of the Magic stat.

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Resilience: This is the factor that reduces any and all incoming damage resulting from attacks dealt through physical or magical means.

This is an example of where double dipping occurs and hurts the rest of the system. By pumping this stat you get defense from two different things, melee AND magic. Someone who dumped into this and HP could effectively be invincible very quickly because they're getting twice the bang for their buck and now have enough overall defense and high enough HP to tank pretty much anything. Even without HP they could still be very tanky. They only have to pump ONE stat for defending...but in order to attack and get past that same defense on other players, they'd have to split their points between magic and strength. See what I'm talking about now?
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Avoidance: Factor that determines the ability of a character to avoid magical or physical attacks. You could also call this speed.

Again, a double dip, and in fact this one seems more powerful than the last one. Resilience might require some HP to work well, but Avoidance, if pumped as high as possible, could forego both of them because you don't need that much HP if you're never getting hit.
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Resource Power (RP): Mana, Stamina, Chakra, whatever the player wants to call their energy source that fuels abilities.

I considered having MP instead be something like Ability Points or Technical Points or whatever so that it could encompass both spells and melee skills. I'm still considering that; I said before that I didn't really intend for "Special Melee Moves" to be a thing, but Burnt brought up some good points so I'm reconsidering my stance on that and seeing if I can work some things out.
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There would also need to be a weapon system.

I'm working on it, it just takes a while.

Weapons will have a Damage Value that's a straight number, and they'll usually boost one or two stats to help facilitate the kind of fighting they're meant for--however, those boosts are going to be percentages, the reason being that Burnt helped me figure out a way to get a Linear increase going instead of an exponential one. The percentages will represent a character's ability to use that weapon effectively, rather than requiring a certain amount of a stat to be able to use the weapon at all. For instance, it's a little bit odd that a rapier needs you to be so fast before you can even use it--anyone can pick up a weapon and swing it around. But not everyone will be good at it. The percentages help reflect that--someone who has only 10 Speed and a rapier that boosts speed by 10% will only get 1 point from it. They can't use it as effectively as someone who builds their stats like a rapier-user would and has, say, 30 speed and thus gets three times the advantage.
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Perascamin
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A Legendary Ocean
Well, just food for thought. A lot of the doubling up in stats was to make it smaller number crunching that our community usually complains about.
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Onime No Ryu
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Perascamin
March 31, 2015, 7:17 pm
Well, just food for thought. A lot of the doubling up in stats was to make it smaller number crunching that our community usually complains about.
Right, I get that, but doubling up actually hurts a stat system's purpose--to provide balance.

What I did to make number crunching easier was get rid of two of those stats you used entirely--avoidance and resilience. With HP/MP, Strength, Speed, Skill, and Spirit, there's no way to increase your "defense" aside from HP, because Armor Check (the value someone has to reach to hit you in the first place) and Damage Reduction (the number of points you can subtract from a hit before you subtract that damage from your HP) will both depend on what kind of armor you're wearing.

It's a foregone conclusion that anyone who is attacked will try to dodge it or block it, right? So why make them put points into that to determine how good they'll be at something they'll attempt to do literally every time combat happens? Instead, everyone gets the same value for it across the board--Naked, all players would have 10 AC and 0 DR. Then the armor they use determines the rest of it.

Strength and Spirit are the same, so once you understand one it's half the work to understand the other. But by keeping them separate rather than merging them into like, "Power" or something, you differentiate the magic and melee classes and avoid double dipping for the attack power stat.

I actually debated removing Speed because it didn't seem to have any use, up until I took another look at Sin's Stamina system and decided Action Points could be a thing. Again, everyone gets a certain number of these across the board, and then their Speed Bonus determines how much more they get. Rogues will be faster than Warriors, and when moving on the MiniMap Action Points will keep people from moving too far at once and charging into certain doom...or, if they DO happen to do that, the Action Points will punish them for making bad tactical decisions by running out on them when it's unsafe to rest.

Skill determines the chance to hit, the accuracy, the chance to succeed, for a lot more. It comes the closest to double dipping for any of the stats, but its functions are all separated situationally. In Combat, it determines chances to hit. Evade and Defend are covered by AC and DR. Outside of Combat it determines the success of different actions, but then those actions are all normally associated with some level of "skill" anyway, so there's a thematic relationship there--AND, the other stats all still have their own effect on different actions outside of Combat, so each stat has the same number of applications.

That's 6 stats, two of which only require subtraction and addition. HP and MP only need to be kept track of when something relative to them happens.

The other 4 all have impacts on different situations, but there's only 4 of them, and each one has a very defined niche both inside and outside of combat. They require a dice roll and some addition/subtraction, but considering all you have to do to roll the die is click a button and read a number, it doesn't seem that complex to me.

Compared to regular dnd, people would have to keep track of 6 fully functional stats with a variety of different uses inside and outside of combat as well as their applications to skills and spells. I haven't gotten to those yet, but spells in my system work a little differently to account for the fact that players will be creating their own rather than choosing from a predefined list.
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Onime No Ryu
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I'll be your Undertaker this evening
Also, here are some synopses about the world, the story, and some other things. Anyone just wanting to know more about the setting, or create their own stuff, or whatever should hopefully be able to use it; if you need more or need something clarified, let me know.


SETTING:
A continent in the northwest hemisphere of the planet, very close to Canada/northern Europe in terms of its geological location/climate and in terms of the culture found there. Very rough and dotted with mountains and cliffs, but also thick with hardy forests; not a lot of plains/empty rolling hills of grass, save for a select few areas. A hard place to live, perhaps why the life that has managed to live here is so strong and varied.

The kingdom that rules the majority of this continent is known as Isanheim. Originally, the people of the continent were scattered in many tribes that competed with themselves and the other races for resources. Because of the distance across the seas and the relative sizes of the continents in this world, these tribes developed as if Vikings were landlocked--they raided and pillaged, but generally among themselves, and thus were not exposed to many outside influences until much later when stronger sailing ships were eventually developed. This lack of outsider influence and the presence of many warring races has built a culture of general isolation--what is familiar is held in strong regard, and changes are not easily made if they can't provide easily visible, tangible results. Magic and technology are much more acceptable, because of their immediate results and what can be seen from experimentation, than cultural ideas. Conservative, but industrious, Vikings adapted to the mountains instead of the seas.


RACES:HUMANS AND DEMONS
Humans - As mentioned above, the humans here in Isanheim are very similar to Vikings, the Nords of the Elder Scrolls, and your general "hardy northern folk," archetype. Humans are, compared to other races, a bit below average in terms of the strength and magic that they are born with. What makes them formidable, however, is their growth. Unlike animals that are born with all the instinct they need, a trait that most of the other races follow, Humans are born with the ability to learn. Humans also reach sexual maturity quickly and can breed year round-- their numbers multiply at the fastest pace of any of the other races. Thus, a human has little to start with, but potential to be something very dangerous, and there are always more and more of them.

Demons, the umbrella term - "Demon" is an umbrella for any non-human, intelligent race. They are varied in their abilities but most fall to one side or the other of "physical" and "magical" power. On average, any one of them will be more than a match for a human, but each has their own disadvantages as well. Many of these lie in their numbers; humanity simply breeds far too fast for them to keep up in most circumstances. There are eight "demon clans," but even within the clans there are creatures different enough to be considered separate species on their own; however, due to their levels of intelligence or similar evolutionary paths, many have chosen to ally with those most like themselves.

Beast Clan - These demons share common ancestors with many forms of animals but, for one reason or another, have begun to walk upright, use magic, or wield tools. Minotaurs, Centaurs, Chimeras, even humanoid creatures that seem to be "half man and half beast" as well as many other types fall under this category. Interbreeding of this clan with humans, an action seen as extremely sick and twisted, has even produced the cursed half demons known as "were beasts."

Bird Clan - Like the beast clan, these demons share many features with avians, though for the most part they are also humanoid in appearance. The Harpies are the dominant species of this clan, with most of the others being little more than extra-intelligent and extra-large birds of prey. The harpies, however, have avoided being absorbed into any other clan because of their extraordinary combat abilities.

Lizard Clan - Thought to possibly share ancestors with dragons as well as with other reptiles, the lizardfolk are one of the longest lived races in terms of their history...yet by that same token they are one of the most primitive. They are not well suited for the current environment of Isanheim, having come to exist when the planet's climate was much warmer. If not for current events it is likely they would eventually die out by simple nature of no longer being fit for their habitat. However, if there is one thing they have learned over the eons, it is the crafting and shaping of metal into armor and weaponry. In the days before ice covered Isanheim every winter, it is said the lizardfolk lived in the hearts of the mountains, forging their metal in pools of magma, their cold blood warmed comfortably by heat that would kill any other creature. Lizardmen, Naga, and a few amphibious breeds that aren't quite capable of being their own clan inhabit this group.

Dragons - uh they're fucking dragons i don't think this one needs much explaining. they are intelligent and capable of speech though.

Fae - One of the more varied clans, the Fae have banded together despite their differences because they are very physically frail. They do, however, have strong magic...but they are flighty, fickle, and strongly emotional, so they aren't very good at tactical thought required to turn that magic against their foes in a militant style. Their only real method of defending themselves besides the "raw power" of their magic, is using manipulation. Incubi and their female counterpart, Succubi, as well as pixies and gnomes and other such things are part of this group. Intermingling with the higher races of this clan has produced the cursed half demons known as Vampires, and those who seek to learn the Fae's magic are known as Witches. No respectable school of human sorcery would ever stoop to learning the dark tricks of these creatures.

Orchi - "orr-kai, ai like "eye". Originally the plural form for Orc, which is the dominant species of this clan. Ogres, trolls, and goblins also make up this group; it wouldn't be amiss to say that they know and care about nothing but physical power. An adult orc will, on average, be at least three times stronger than an adult human. An ogre, five to six times, and a troll nearly ten. Even goblins, despite their small size, have enough strength to break a man's neck if one gives them the chance. Their weapons and manner of dress are very crude, though not quite primitive, but they are excellent at direct combat, if not so much at long-term strategy. What weakens orcs the most, however, are their stubbornness and their slow reproduction. They are almost as xenophobic as humans, which, given that they have to work with the other demon races in current circumstances, has greatly hindered them. Their breeding cycle is seasonal, though they usually do have multiple children at one birthing. However, as a race greatly tied to the physical side of the world but unadapted to it--they can't craft like the lizards, fly like the birds, and have little magic or fur to keep them warm--the harshness of Isanheim is slowly chipping away at them.

Giants - gigantic, incredibly primitive and stupid humanoids covered with fur. Imagine the yeti and sasquatch. Their culture is basically like that of cavemen. They're between ten and fifteen feet tall on average, but surprisingly not as strong as you think they would be; it's the leverage their giant weapons/limbs can get that make them so devastating, but an ogre could probably match them in terms of lifting and dragging things.


Devils - the "humans" of the demon world--that is, those that are born with the greatest potential for learning rather than instinct. In their younger years, devils are no doubt the weakest of demons. But they learned. They are decently strong; not so much as an Orc, but strong. Strong enough to offer protection to Fae in exchange for magical knowledge. Smart enough to offer trade to the lizardfolk for their weapons and armor, and to manipulate the dumber Orchi and Giants into providing labor for them. If it weren't for the vast numbers of humans, devils would most certainly rule the world. They still might.


STORY:
Roughly 100 years ago, the humans began a massive campaign to drive demons out of their lands. They drove them out into the frozen wastes of the far north, and established the fortress Isgard to keep the border safe. 50 years afterwards, the united nation that the humans had forged to drive out their common enemy threatened to fall apart in a brutal civil war, but peace was eventually reestablished and the kingdom reforged. The people of Isanheim, however, are not used to change. The times are bringing a great deal of it...and the demons, too, have changed, and broken through the borders once more.

A "demons vs humans" war story, much like we are used to, but with another theme as well--"change." How have the demons changed in their 100 year exile, and how will it effect the humans' ability to withstand their assaults? How must the humans force themselves to change, in order to ensure their survival?
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Perascamin
March 31, 2015, 11:23 am
Personally, I really enjoy complex statistics in an RP like with NT's Fire Emblem RPs on Lost Sanctum. It makes the battling phases very direct--it eliminates figts from taking up 38 or more posts. I think that having complex stats makes character building very fun. It makes you think a lot about having the perfectly built character for whatever it is you're going for.

I also enjoy equip systems with weapons and limited armor pieces. Damage values on weapons, defense values on armors, and HP factors make fighting very fair, accurate, swift, and easy.
For the record, I still have all the information for FE- so if anyone ever gets bored then just tell me and I can set us up a campaign in less than 12 hours. Nothing like a small scale adventure in FE world to break up a little boredom for those who don't fear complex numbers like they are the plague.
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Onime No Ryu
March 31, 2015, 9:02 pm
Also, here are some synopses about the world, the story, and some other things. Anyone just wanting to know more about the setting, or create their own stuff, or whatever should hopefully be able to use it; if you need more or need something clarified, let me know.


SETTING:
A continent in the northwest hemisphere of the planet, very close to Canada/northern Europe in terms of its geological location/climate and in terms of the culture found there. Very rough and dotted with mountains and cliffs, but also thick with hardy forests; not a lot of plains/empty rolling hills of grass, save for a select few areas. A hard place to live, perhaps why the life that has managed to live here is so strong and varied.

The kingdom that rules the majority of this continent is known as Isanheim. Originally, the people of the continent were scattered in many tribes that competed with themselves and the other races for resources. Because of the distance across the seas and the relative sizes of the continents in this world, these tribes developed as if Vikings were landlocked--they raided and pillaged, but generally among themselves, and thus were not exposed to many outside influences until much later when stronger sailing ships were eventually developed. This lack of outsider influence and the presence of many warring races has built a culture of general isolation--what is familiar is held in strong regard, and changes are not easily made if they can't provide easily visible, tangible results. Magic and technology are much more acceptable, because of their immediate results and what can be seen from experimentation, than cultural ideas. Conservative, but industrious, Vikings adapted to the mountains instead of the seas.


RACES:HUMANS AND DEMONS
Humans - As mentioned above, the humans here in Isanheim are very similar to Vikings, the Nords of the Elder Scrolls, and your general "hardy northern folk," archetype. Humans are, compared to other races, a bit below average in terms of the strength and magic that they are born with. What makes them formidable, however, is their growth. Unlike animals that are born with all the instinct they need, a trait that most of the other races follow, Humans are born with the ability to learn. Humans also reach sexual maturity quickly and can breed year round-- their numbers multiply at the fastest pace of any of the other races. Thus, a human has little to start with, but potential to be something very dangerous, and there are always more and more of them.

Demons, the umbrella term - "Demon" is an umbrella for any non-human, intelligent race. They are varied in their abilities but most fall to one side or the other of "physical" and "magical" power. On average, any one of them will be more than a match for a human, but each has their own disadvantages as well. Many of these lie in their numbers; humanity simply breeds far too fast for them to keep up in most circumstances. There are eight "demon clans," but even within the clans there are creatures different enough to be considered separate species on their own; however, due to their levels of intelligence or similar evolutionary paths, many have chosen to ally with those most like themselves.

Beast Clan - These demons share common ancestors with many forms of animals but, for one reason or another, have begun to walk upright, use magic, or wield tools. Minotaurs, Centaurs, Chimeras, even humanoid creatures that seem to be "half man and half beast" as well as many other types fall under this category. Interbreeding of this clan with humans, an action seen as extremely sick and twisted, has even produced the cursed half demons known as "were beasts."

Bird Clan - Like the beast clan, these demons share many features with avians, though for the most part they are also humanoid in appearance. The Harpies are the dominant species of this clan, with most of the others being little more than extra-intelligent and extra-large birds of prey. The harpies, however, have avoided being absorbed into any other clan because of their extraordinary combat abilities.

Lizard Clan - Thought to possibly share ancestors with dragons as well as with other reptiles, the lizardfolk are one of the longest lived races in terms of their history...yet by that same token they are one of the most primitive. They are not well suited for the current environment of Isanheim, having come to exist when the planet's climate was much warmer. If not for current events it is likely they would eventually die out by simple nature of no longer being fit for their habitat. However, if there is one thing they have learned over the eons, it is the crafting and shaping of metal into armor and weaponry. In the days before ice covered Isanheim every winter, it is said the lizardfolk lived in the hearts of the mountains, forging their metal in pools of magma, their cold blood warmed comfortably by heat that would kill any other creature. Lizardmen, Naga, and a few amphibious breeds that aren't quite capable of being their own clan inhabit this group.

Dragons - uh they're fucking dragons i don't think this one needs much explaining. they are intelligent and capable of speech though.

Fae - One of the more varied clans, the Fae have banded together despite their differences because they are very physically frail. They do, however, have strong magic...but they are flighty, fickle, and strongly emotional, so they aren't very good at tactical thought required to turn that magic against their foes in a militant style. Their only real method of defending themselves besides the "raw power" of their magic, is using manipulation. Incubi and their female counterpart, Succubi, as well as pixies and gnomes and other such things are part of this group. Intermingling with the higher races of this clan has produced the cursed half demons known as Vampires, and those who seek to learn the Fae's magic are known as Witches. No respectable school of human sorcery would ever stoop to learning the dark tricks of these creatures.

Orchi - "orr-kai, ai like "eye". Originally the plural form for Orc, which is the dominant species of this clan. Ogres, trolls, and goblins also make up this group; it wouldn't be amiss to say that they know and care about nothing but physical power. An adult orc will, on average, be at least three times stronger than an adult human. An ogre, five to six times, and a troll nearly ten. Even goblins, despite their small size, have enough strength to break a man's neck if one gives them the chance. Their weapons and manner of dress are very crude, though not quite primitive, but they are excellent at direct combat, if not so much at long-term strategy. What weakens orcs the most, however, are their stubbornness and their slow reproduction. They are almost as xenophobic as humans, which, given that they have to work with the other demon races in current circumstances, has greatly hindered them. Their breeding cycle is seasonal, though they usually do have multiple children at one birthing. However, as a race greatly tied to the physical side of the world but unadapted to it--they can't craft like the lizards, fly like the birds, and have little magic or fur to keep them warm--the harshness of Isanheim is slowly chipping away at them.

Giants - gigantic, incredibly primitive and stupid humanoids covered with fur. Imagine the yeti and sasquatch. Their culture is basically like that of cavemen. They're between ten and fifteen feet tall on average, but surprisingly not as strong as you think they would be; it's the leverage their giant weapons/limbs can get that make them so devastating, but an ogre could probably match them in terms of lifting and dragging things.


Devils - the "humans" of the demon world--that is, those that are born with the greatest potential for learning rather than instinct. In their younger years, devils are no doubt the weakest of demons. But they learned. They are decently strong; not so much as an Orc, but strong. Strong enough to offer protection to Fae in exchange for magical knowledge. Smart enough to offer trade to the lizardfolk for their weapons and armor, and to manipulate the dumber Orchi and Giants into providing labor for them. If it weren't for the vast numbers of humans, devils would most certainly rule the world. They still might.


STORY:
Roughly 100 years ago, the humans began a massive campaign to drive demons out of their lands. They drove them out into the frozen wastes of the far north, and established the fortress Isgard to keep the border safe. 50 years afterwards, the united nation that the humans had forged to drive out their common enemy threatened to fall apart in a brutal civil war, but peace was eventually reestablished and the kingdom reforged. The people of Isanheim, however, are not used to change. The times are bringing a great deal of it...and the demons, too, have changed, and broken through the borders once more.

A "demons vs humans" war story, much like we are used to, but with another theme as well--"change." How have the demons changed in their 100 year exile, and how will it effect the humans' ability to withstand their assaults? How must the humans force themselves to change, in order to ensure their survival?
Firstly, I would like to say this is a decent set of lore- and information about the world. However, unless someone just really wants to use them it might be worthwhile to weed out the beast and bird races, and focus more on the demi-humans, devils and humans. The demi-humans- fae, orcs etc role in the world would really be interesting to explore. Moving on- unless we are told "we are humans against the other creatures" I would really like to make a devil character. I feel like I could create an awesome take on the trade and exchange class of devil who will work with everyone to reach a central goal, especially if we end up going team A versus team B which would make great sense. Moving on to the system, we've talked already and I am supporting of it.
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Dreaming Sun
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Too long, haven't read the whole thing. But there's an error I've got to pick out anyway:

Quote:
 
Quote:
 
The big thing with stats is that I'm fairly certain the only people here right now who are actually concerned about the competitive nature of character strengths is you and maybe Kaze, Onime. Even after having that one side-battle between Aria and Volke, neither me nor Person were concerned with who was going to win, we just wanted our characters to spar in the way we wanted them to spar. It was character building and interaction, not just some dick-measuring contest over who had their character spend more time doing unrealistic amounts of push-ups.

And to say again, there are only a couple people here that are actually attempting to out-badass each other here, and it's kind of a minority. A lot of us have grown to the point where the characters we're trying to make are a lot less us trying to make super-cool-ultra-strong-guys and more us just trying to make believable characters that are interesting to read and write, and that we can relate to in some way. My excitement in VoC has not been for the battles (those have been done good, though). It's been for the character interaction and how we've all been wanting to develop our own characters.
If no one else is concerned about keeping other people in check, why does anyone bother calling out anyone else for doing ridiculous things? The fact that you do means that you CARE. Yes, you CARE. With EMOTIONS AND THINGS that aren't logical. Gasp. Unlogic. Un-composed-ness. We can't have that oh no.

Yet there people are calling out Yggdra, or Kaze, or me, or whoever it happens to be, whenever someone steps out of line--AS IT SHOULD BE.


You're suggesting something fundamentally wrong here.

Yes, people care, but not for the reasons you suggest. People care, not for the sake of balance, not because someone's character just so happens to be stronger than another, but due to the fact that your actions and reasons have been completely unreasonable within the confines of the story, and completely contradictory to the position you've taken in this debate. Because when you post a scene like Lee empowering himself with dark magic enough so he can fly away from a megaboss and carry multiple other characters with at breakneck speeds to accomplish feats no other character can come even close to, you introduce a plothole. You force the reader to ask "Why couldn't Lee do that earlier?" or "Why are we so afraid of Ferraah when we can do stuff like this?" The problem with these questions is that there really was no reason; no solution. You've made a plot hole with no resolution.

You made for bad writing.

That's what people are concerned about; not who's character is the strongest; rather that you writing, with that scene, was very poor. And because RPing here is, fundamentally, collaborative writing that shares a common universe. Your writing makes ours seem worse as a result of this.

Let me repeat that again, to make this absolutely clear so there are no incorrect assumptions about what I'm trying to get across:

We don't care how strong your character is. We care that, in this scene and several others besides, your writing was so poor that it makes the rest of our's bad by association.

That's why we care.
Edited by Dreaming Sun, April 1, 2015, 8:29 pm.
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Perascamin
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I don't think that it's very fair or friendly of you to tell Onime that he's doing a poor job of writing in the stories of the RPs that go around here. Now Onime's a very fine and respectable writer, and there's no need for you to come off as so hostile, let alone pretend that the whole community holds these same feelings about his writing.

Your argument right now is that the majority of the community doesn't care about keeping a very solid balance between players, but you're also suggesting that the only reason why what Lee was doing was considered "poor" is because it was outside of the confines of the RP....This idea ties in heavily with what "balance" truly is. It's not just about keeping an equal playing field for the players, it's also about keeping the community in check of what's realistic for the setting.

You've also stated that what you really love in RPs is not the fights, but the interaction between characters and the development of personal storylines. If this is really the case, then you should have no problem with what Lee did when he was running away from Ferrah. At the time, Lee's magic was very undefined and unpredictable--it's was supposed to be wild and out of control. Even after he arrived at the camp, he still collapsed of exhaustion. Lee was hated and distrusted by damn near everyone for his unpredictable power. Lee's darkness was a plot device for his own personal storyline, and it's not like Onime ever abused its power in a setting where it wouldn't be beneficial for his allies. This is proper and makes sense, and if what you really crave in RPs in character development, then Lee should have never been a problem with you.
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Dreaming Sun
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The initial post wasn't mine. I'm backing up the argument of Niroth that Onime misinterpreted.

And there's no hostility here. I've been pointing out issues with Onime's writing, but made no comment about himself. My point's built around what he does, rather than what he is. Compare that to how explicitly condescending his remark to Niroth is:

Quote:
 
Yes, you CARE. With EMOTIONS AND THINGS that aren't logical. Gasp. Unlogic. Un-composed-ness. We can't have that oh no.


My argument's not that the majority of the community doesn't care about keeping balance. My purpose is just to answer the question that Onime asked, and to correct something he made a mistake about. He claims that people only care because they're outshone by those who are stronger than him - I'm claiming that people care because it creates plot inconsistency. That's what my argument is.

... I could make a point against the rest of your post, but it doesn't have anything to do with my point. Just ask and I will though.[/quote]
Edited by Dreaming Sun, April 1, 2015, 10:01 pm.
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Perascamin
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God this site really needs to have quotes set to where they display the person(s) involved with them, otherwise they lead to a huge mess like this. It does still seem hostile, however, to post something like this:

Quote:
 
your writing was so poor that it makes the rest of our's bad by association.


No matter how you want to look at it, this is insulting, but there is no use in discussing it any further.
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Onime No Ryu
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NTNP
April 1, 2015, 2:43 pm
Firstly, I would like to say this is a decent set of lore- and information about the world. However, unless someone just really wants to use them it might be worthwhile to weed out the beast and bird races, and focus more on the demi-humans, devils and humans. The demi-humans- fae, orcs etc role in the world would really be interesting to explore. Moving on- unless we are told "we are humans against the other creatures" I would really like to make a devil character. I feel like I could create an awesome take on the trade and exchange class of devil who will work with everyone to reach a central goal, especially if we end up going team A versus team B which would make great sense. Moving on to the system, we've talked already and I am supporting of it.
i need bird and beast races because i needed enough demon variety to have a Big Bad and then 7 Deadly Sin representing Generals because i love having seven generals in stuff.

the story was kinda intended to focus on humans vs the demons, yeah. I mean if you really wanted to make a devil character I guess you could but they'd be limited to interacting with NPCs pretty heavily because if you ever came into contact with humans i can't really think of a reason for you to not want them dead and for them to not want you dead.

To expand a little bit on the history and reasons behind the war, remember that the humans were originally very tribe oriented--raiding and pillaging resources wherever they could to make it in this frozen hellhole. The demons were pretty much the same way. But the humans' population became much larger much faster, and they were able to adapt more quickly and adapt better than most demons were. When the humans were eventually united under one banner, they then turned on the next group. And unlike demons, the various tribes of humans weren't fundamentally different from one another. So it turned into "what is the same vs what is different," and the united human force drove the demons into the northern wastes and caged them up there.

On the demons's side, though, they have been locked in an icy prison for a hundred years, struggling to survive when they were already adapting so poorly to the changing climate of the world and the changing human population. They are driven into the ultimate corner--survive or die. After living in that kind of situation, when they finally break free, they have literally no reason to not want every living human dead. They've grown up hating, taught their children to hate, changed their cultural ideas and worked with other races they would have never interacted with before, all for the purpose of destroying their one hated enemy.

If you made a demon character, you wouldn't just be a demon in this world--you would be a demon whose backstory would have to involve coming out of the wastes just recently, growing up in the wastes, barely surviving in the wastes, being taught that humans were like ants swarming over the land, like a virus that spreads and destroys, a blight that needs to be removed. I feel like a Drizzt Do'Urden who says "my species doth protest too much" would not be well received at all.

If you still wanna go with that then sure, but like I said you'd be pretty limited to interacting with NPCs.
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Onime No Ryu
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Okay so after being "on break" for a while and having a lot of time to think things over, I decided I'm gonna do a few things differently.

No stats, cause fuck 'em.

No lore--I realized this was really more for me than anything else, so I'll just keep it to myself.

Magic will still be somewhat limited, but I decided to combine what I like about "powers" with "magic" because in the end magic and superpowers are the same thing on different ends of a "how scientific is it?" kind of spectrum. More info on this in a minute.

Changes to the story, which will also be further explained in a minute.


You guys have talked about wanting me to trust you and be more tolerant and all that, so I'm really just breaking down on it. I like having structure and rules to streamline everything, but other people don't and for the sake of entertainment I'm gonna give up on the hard stuff and just let things roll down the hill as they will. So if you guys wanna make spellswords, or mary sues, or whatever, that's your right. I'll trust that maybe we have managed to grow as writers over the past few years and hope that it doesn't ruin the narrative.

Now to explain the changes to the story, with one more tidbit. If you remember the Knights of Logres RP, several people expressed interest in doing a reboot of that or something. So I took that and sort of worked it into this idea.

Story:
When the Demon Clans break free of their frozen prison beyond the fortress of Isguard, the many Knight Orders of Isanheim are called to muster their strength and lead the armies of Man. For the sake of a clear chain of command, the heads of each order are relegated to different roles captaining their knights, and ultimately the command of the army as a whole is delegated by the king to Lord Commander Sir Argos, a man dubbed by some as the "King of Knights." Argos selects his Seven Generals from among the strongest knights of the realm, and each of these generals select their own subordinates and so on down the line. With the army thus organized, Argos now calls upon the secretive and ancient cabal within the Tower of Zoubar: the Magi.

The power of magic, to replicate the forces of nature, is a difficult and arduous discipline. To even begin to unravel its mysteries takes a decade of dedicated study and dangerous experimentation. The Elders of Zoubar have spent their whole lives unraveling only a fraction of the universe's deepest secrets. But among those secrets is an art kept dearly secret, for its misuse could bring disaster to the land: The power of the Sigils.

A sigil is a magical formula, inscribed in runic tongue and filled with power, that can be embedded into a tool, an object, or even a person. It contains the knowledge and power of the mage who inscribes it, and thus allows the Magi to pass down their secrets so that, over time, the powers of magic can be broadened by allowing an apprentice to pick up where his master's research ended.

Argos' request was thus: By passing a Sigil down to those Knights who were deemed worthy, they would gain the power of spells to help them fight back against the demons. Knowing the importance of this war, the Magi agreed under one condition. It was decided that the Sigils embedded into the flesh of the knights would be limited to a single spell, which would be powered by the Knights' stamina without the aid of the original wizards' power. From that point, it would be up to the Knights to make use of the knowledge passed down to them in the best way they could.

Thus armed with sorcery and steel, Argos and his Knights set out to engage the Demon Clans...



So as you can probably speculate, Sigils would grant a single spell--not things like "Control/generate all Fire" or "Shapeshift into anything," but specialized spells more akin to singular superpowers, like "Super Strength," or "Creating a ball of explosive fire" that could then be given more varied uses with practice. Even if you can only create a fireball, you could use it at close range like Naruto's Rasengan or throw it for the usual grenade effect, and I'm sure people could come up with other creative uses. Players would begin as Knights with a single Sigil, and earning more sigils, higher ranks, etc could be accomplished as the RP went on.

If you want a possible example of what "Knights using single-spells in combination with their fighting style" might be like, look up some youtube vids of a series called "Nanatsu no Taizai," also known in English as "The Seven Deadly Sins," because I took a lot of inspiration from that when thinking about this idea.

So are you guys interested or what
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Primera Espada Yggdra
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So basically, by the end game, we could end up being filled with sigils and throw all sorts of spells within the limits of our stamina? Would all characters be under a single general or will they be separated instead?
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Onime No Ryu
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i'd lean more towards having a handful of sigils that players got really good at using in creative ways, but eh maybe.

as for where characters are army wise i guess that would depend on what players wanted to do, if they wanted to group up or split up at different points in the story.
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Primera Espada Yggdra
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Well since I have free time, sure I'm in.
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NTNP
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I am in. Tell me a little more about the army and who we can serve under. Also are the demonic forces divided up in essentially the same way?
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Systematic made by Phaede of the SZ..