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| Experimental RPs | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: November 23, 2014, 4:16 pm (1,190 Views) | |
| Knight of Tigers | November 28, 2014, 6:28 pm Post #26 |
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Cat-Eared Complex Blitzkreig from the South
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The Plant/Wood and Sound/Explosion debate: I feel like the Influence idea you proposed could solve that problem. So, Explosion would be the base (without an Influence, it's a purely 'indiscriminate outward kinetic force' kind of deal), Sound would be Explosion with a Wind influence, and Combustion would be Explosion with a Fire Influence. Or maybe Sound and Combustion would be third-tier elements? Plant and Wood would operate similarly; Plant would be the base, with Wood being the result of a... Earth or Endurance Influence possibly? Alchemy: Sounds more like a Plant+Water thing to me. Star magic: YES PLEASE. Divination, navigation and unreliable affectation of fortune (minor wards, curses and blessings) are some potential further uses of this particular element. Seal and Darkness: Sounds like a pair of excellent additions, I'd definitely back those two. Mind as well, but given that it's one I suggested earlier, it kinda goes without saying. Breakdown/Destruction element (Entropy?): This kind of element is naturally overpowered, but is generally balanced out by some kind of limitation on usage. If you'll excuse all the anime examples: Spoiler: click to toggle Now a few of those are SUPER overpowered, but they're extremes used to illustrate a point. You CAN balance a Destruction element; it just requires a very specific usage and/or heavy penalties associated with its use. You could even limit it even further by splitting it into variants depending on what elements are used to form it. For example, Void+Earth wold be an inorganic matter-only type of Destruction, Void+Spirit would be a 'Killing' or 'Vampiric' type of element, Void+Light would be like a Shadow, Illusion or maybe 'Obscuring' type of element ('Obscuring' makes more sense, since Light is already kind of an Illusion element, but it might differ in that Light can only 'create falsehood' where Obscuring can only 'remove truth'). Taking it to the third-tier, Void+Mind could be straight-up memory erasure (Amnesia? Obfuscation? Mind magic may already be capable of this, but might not be as powerful or permanent), Void+Star could unravel fortune and fate (a powerful and likely rare ability, maybe something like 'Misfortune' or something, that can be used to destroy the bonds between people or break prophecies?), Void+Alchemy or Void+Spirit could be an Anti-Magic/Mundane element (see the Touma example above), Void+Lightning could be like an element that allows the user to feed on energy at the expense of not gaining nutrition (or taste!) from mundane foods... and that's about all I've got for now. Armour magic: I feel like most Form+(non-conceptual element) variants ought to be something like this. Form+Metal would be this steelskin kind of ability you've described, Form+Water would let the user turn into a liquid form, and so on. Storm magic: Probably call it Weather, I think. I feel like the component forms of this element wouldn't allow for the same size of effects or versatility as what this would be capable of. Space magic: Feels like a Force+Gravity or Star+Gravity combination to me. Definitely requires a Gravity component. Bone magic: Okay, you're starting to sell me on it. This seems like it could have some really gruesome survival-horror-ish applications. Definitely the realm of magic-users who are up for a bit of PAAAAAAIN (*insert bees here*). I kinda feel like this needs a Form component though (much like I saw with Beast earlier), but I can't really see any immediate solutions to that problem, especially with what I just said about Armour magic. ADDENDUM: IN RESPONSE TO DVD PLAYER Paper magic: Yooo, don't talk smack about Paper Manipulation, dude. Paper Masters will push your shit in. Joking aside, it's strange, yes, but not unheard of. Perhaps it's one of those weird fringe classes of magic (you get those in any magic-rich universe, after all). It's more fun that way, and adds some lore depth. *shrug* Mind magic: While I agree that telekinesis shouldn't reeeeally go under Mind (doesn't really fall under Gravity to me either, but that's a separate issue), I disagree on the point of mind-reading/mind-control being dark in nature. Things like telepathy, mind-reading and other 'psychic' senses aren't necessarily dark, but are simply expanded ranges of sensitivity and the ability to project thought as you would one's voice. It's only when this otherwise harmless ability is used to overwhelm others (psychic 'screaming' and the like), or strip away their free will through suggestion and conditioning that it becomes evil. It's really all dependent on the user. Crafting magic: It does seem a bit odd, granted, but like Weapon magic, it's not really a type of magic dedicated to 'spells', but rather 'inherent ability'. There's a marked difference between your run-of-the-mill blacksmith and the legendary hermit on the mountaintop who forged the Godslayer, you know what I mean? Again, it's another of those weird fringe types of magic. Magnetism magic: Under closer inspection, I agree, but for different reasons. Magnetism is really just a sub-form of Electric/Lightning magic, yeah? The affectation of electromagnetic fields. I reckon Magnetism and its effects are probably just Lightning magic with an influence from Metal, Earth, Force or Wind. Crystal and Glass magic: Agreed. Can we perhaps keep the Dust+Fire combination, but have the resulting element be Crystal and collapse Glass into it? Edited by Knight of Tigers, November 28, 2014, 7:04 pm.
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| Onime No Ryu | November 28, 2014, 7:33 pm Post #27 |
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I'll be your Undertaker this evening
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Niroth Knights Thanks for the feedback guys, keep it coming! *twitch*notmagic*twitch* |
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| NTNP | November 28, 2014, 7:53 pm Post #28 |
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Admin
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Wow, this was such a magical thing to read. Such a mystifying and arcane process. It was almost beyond my ability to keep up. |
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| Knight of Tigers | November 29, 2014, 6:50 pm Post #29 |
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Cat-Eared Complex Blitzkreig from the South
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Been giving this some thought for the last couple days. Random theory, probably not gonna go anywhere, but it might be worth tossing it out there. So. The issue that seems to crop up a lot is the fact that a proposed element already falls under the general purview of an existing element. There's also that niggling thing that keeps bugging me where certain combinations can result in multiple results, whereas other combinations are completely useless (the heck would you do with Lava+Plant? Steam+Light? Snow+Strength?). Now, I know you said that you had a system before in which you used ratios of combination to achieve different results, but you elected to not use that in this system for balancing purposes. However, upon closer inspection, the concept of Stacking seems to be a bit lopsided. A quintessential element will always be more versatile than a fused element, which is inevitably more specific in nature. To make hybrids weaker not only in terms of power but in versatility as well... it seems as though puritanism is the most sure-fire way to go. With that in mind, why not collapse the fusion and influence systems into one and have Dominant and Affective components to combinations? For example, when combining Fire and Earth, if Fire is Dominant, it results in Lava, but if Earth is Dominant, it results in Metal? The resulting combination elements ought to be more focused or specific, but offer a greater strength than the preceding elements. For example, an explosion caused by a Fire ability is weaker than one of the same level from an Explosion ability, but the Exploder obviously can't do much more than that whereas the Fire-user can do far more with their range of control. Maybe those with abilities pertaining to specific elements are more common, with atomic elements being rare and highly-coveted powers? A couple sketchy combination ideas to finish up. Neither are particularly great, but they're about all I could think up: Light+Vibration=Spectrum Oscillation: Allows the user to alter the colours in the world around them, or see into light spectrums beyond normal human ranges. Steam+Plant=Pollen/Pheromones?: Might fall under a poison umbrella? At their weakest, pollen can stir up hayfever and allergies, and at worst could cause hallucinations, narcolepsy or even be those horrible spores that start growing in your brain if you breathe 'em in. Pheromones are more specific in nature, but powerful in the hands of subtle manipulator types. Get out of here, Poison Ivy. |
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| Onime No Ryu | November 29, 2014, 8:30 pm Post #30 |
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I'll be your Undertaker this evening
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I didn't scrap the ratio thing for balance purposes so much as for the fact that this system doesn't require material components. Rune Masters was a setting in which all magic came from Rune Stones. Characters had to find the correct materials to carve those runes with, and then the runes themselves were like ammunition. Using one Fire Rune would let you throw a fireball, or make a stream of flames, or whatever, but ater that it crumbled to dust and was useless. By collecting and combining runes players had more possible spells but had to watch their supplies. Since this is an ability system where a person is their own power source, I figured it made more sense just to have possible combinations from the same elements not always be the same thing for...whatever reasons. So a person who inherits both Fire and Earth elements might develop a Metal based ability while their sibling develops a Lava based one and yet another sibling might just have plain Earth or Fire. I'm not really worried about the number of abilities needing to be balanced--having 2 combinations from Fire and Earth doesn't mean they're more powerful or unfair to elements like Spirit that only have one combination with each other element. There's no system of advantages or disadvantages here beyond what makes logical sense--in other words, no Pokemon style type advantages/weaknesses. So it doesn't really hurt an element if they have more or less combinations than other elements. I disagree that the base elements will always be more versatile--for instance, look at Water. It can only control liquid water, not the typical three-states manipulation most water users have. When you compare that to Plant, it's easy to see that Plant has way more versatility, whereas Water could have more raw power because of Stacking. Now, the base elements are versatile. And they can become strong with Stacking. But the way I see it, they're really more of a middle ground, whereas the combinations tend to go towards one extreme or the other. Stacked Water, powerful waves. Plant, whips, traps, disguises, literal blades of grass, so on and so forth. Stacked Fire, not only great burning ability, but being able to control it to generate propulsion or to melt things or throw it over long range. Lava, kind of difficult to make too many shapes with it and too weighty to throw very far...but how many people survive being caught on fire vs. being dipped in lava? The Spectral Oscillation, to me, sounds like it would already be part of Light for the most part--the person could probably choose what color they wanted their light ability to shine and things like that. As for seeing colors like UV or infrared, though, I'm not real sure what that would go under...Aether gave truesight abilities, but I dunno if Light should give something similar on its base level. Steam is probably going to be removed entirely, since Poison could cover the gaseous type stuff. And I think poison could cover those spores and pollens and stuff too, maybe if it had a Plant influence, or because Plant is one of the elements making it up. I also want to apologize, guys, cause I realize in my last few posts I've kind of been shooting down a lot of your ideas. I don't mean to offend anyone or say your ideas aren't good or anything. They're just not really what I was thinking of for this system, you know? I had a set kind of feel I wanted to get from this, and while I'm definitely open to changes I just don't want to change it into a completely different system by the end, you know? |
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| DVD Player | November 30, 2014, 12:39 pm Post #31 |
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Mdl. No. 00X "Burrito"
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It's fine. With ability systems it's hard to find that fine balance between scope and focus; keeping abilities vague enough that it leaves room for players to be creative and find their own uses, but at the same time keeping them focused enough that they have to keep with a theme and not deviate from their own thing. With a few of those I felt they were too focused in that it was too limited in what you could do with them. Steam, of course, was the biggest offender of that but we all agree on that. But in regards to abilities as simple as "Force", "Speed", "Vibration", etc. it jut feels like the only purpose of having those there is FOR ability combinations while just going pure on one of them wouldn't leave you with much to do. And regards to Dark; keep in mind that your personal preference on what is cool/what isn't cool may not be the best basis for choosing a system for a semi-public roleplay :P. Heck, I'd be tempted to make a character focused on dark magic who isn't edgy/grimdark at all :P. Although the humerous side of that is done in Paranatural with Mr. Spender who is written to be the biggest try-hard and it's super funny. ALSO ALSO in regards to sand; remember that still all it took to bend Sand WAS Earth Bending, so that comparison still falls a little short. Dust is a much better replacement, although would be a little weird to include ash in that; but whatever. |
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| Onime No Ryu | November 30, 2014, 4:28 pm Post #32 |
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I'll be your Undertaker this evening
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Yeah, and to be honest, I would probably be okay with fudging the rules a little bit for individual elements if a person could give me a good reason to do it--if they come up with a creative, non-overpowered, really neat ability but just can't seem to make it fit in the right categories, it'd be okay with me to just sort of grab whatever's closest and blur the boundaries a little bit. The idea is that I want people to come up with ONE power that can be succinctly and uniquely described, and then use their own creativity to figure out more than one way of using that power. Force, Speed, things like that may not seem to have as many applications as the others without combinations, but that's only if you look at them in terms of being able to project them over distances and unleash forces of energy/nature with them. To me, someone who was a pure Force user would be a person with some kind of super strength, and that power is insanely useful--why else would so many superheroes have it? And speedsters can be the most overpowered of any kind of superhero, especially if they're like Flash and move at made-up levels of speed that make it impossible for any non speedster to even attempt to fight them. I agree that I can't always enforce what I think is cool on other people, or convince them of what I think is lame. But I just feel like the flavor of this system and the world I imagine it'd be used in is not the same flavor as powers that involve "making shadows solid" and other such things. To say that "all it took was Earthbending" is, to me, a little like saying "All you have to do to fight like Ip Man is learn martial arts." Ip Man wasn't just "martial arts," he practiced Wing Chun, and I'm certain given how concerned many Chinese martial artists have been with the lineage of their styles, he probably practiced a particular branch of Wing Chun taught by a particular member of a particular family, and they probably do things a little differently in their Wing Chun from how other people do Wing Chun. So just learning Wing Chun by itself wouldn't necessarily make you as badass as he was, just like learning Earthbending by itself might not make you a very good sandbender. |
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| DVD Player | November 30, 2014, 6:32 pm Post #33 |
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Mdl. No. 00X "Burrito"
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Still not a very good comparison. As well, the ability to sand-bend was a matter of technique, not whether or not they could possibly do it as an earthbender alone. In the end they were still ONLY earthbenders and didn't require to blend in the ability to airbend as well in order to make it possible. At the end of the day it's still rock-dust. |
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| Onime No Ryu | December 23, 2014, 2:06 pm Post #34 |
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I'll be your Undertaker this evening
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Okay so the ability system thing didn't work out for reasons. Which of these other ideas should I try to incorporate into something? |
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5:53 PM Jul 10