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| Experimental RPs | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: November 23, 2014, 4:16 pm (1,189 Views) | |
| Onime No Ryu | November 23, 2014, 4:16 pm Post #1 |
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I'll be your Undertaker this evening
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Goddammit you guys I really don't wanna be an RP-Admin but I keep coming up with all these ideas. If you like any of these feel free to take them off my hands or something. After the little bastardized D&D RP--which, despite its shortness, I think did really well with the whole "dnd style" concept with the map and the way the characters were built and all that--I started getting ideas for other RPs we could do that twisted our normal perceptions of what RPs were supposed to be, with the idea being that we could explore both the creative and gameplay aspects of these things and maybe use what we learn to improve future RPs. EX No.1 - Main Character EX No. 2 - Character Pairing EX. No. 3 - Highlander EX. No. 4 - World All Our Own FEEDBACK PLZ |
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| DVD Player | November 23, 2014, 4:23 pm Post #2 |
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Mdl. No. 00X "Burrito"
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I've always liked the idea of Tournament RP; not because of competition but because of the interactions it entails. It makes for a unique atmosphere that's tough to get in a normal RP. Makes for a solid short RP too. |
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| Onime No Ryu | November 23, 2014, 4:25 pm Post #3 |
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I'll be your Undertaker this evening
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Given that there are usually only around 12 or so people at the most involved in one RP, something kind of like Street Fighter or Soul Calibur would probably work really well. Some folks like to create multiple characters, but that would probably be kind of unfair in this particular idea. |
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| Person A | November 23, 2014, 4:40 pm Post #4 |
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Best to sleep on it.
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Honestly, I really enjoy both the first and second ideas, if only because they're so different from what's the unspoken norm, but not too far from it. For Veil 2, I can definitely see Ritz as a core character type of person, if only because I have so many ideas for what she could say or do. I could just have her step into other people's stories or plow on what she had. Volke, on the other hand, has only a few bits that makes it hard for me to really write for him. Really feels more of the side character that you'd visit and revisit from time to time to get the story out of him. Basically, I feel like he's more linear with his story and focused solely on it, while Ritz could easily branch out of her story. Then again, if you're planning the story of your characters to be about stories, I guess that's sort of inevitable. As for the duo partnership, well. Might just be because I'm a Fate fanboy (Thanks, Shiny.). But it'd be an interesting contrast. Slowly leak through your character's backstory to the one you're supposed to trust, but then put a twist on their relationship in some way. "I'm supposed to trust him but I'd really prefer to kill him." (And, naturally, you should be able to if it reaches that point, hah) |
![]() Mover, Shaker, Brute and Breaker. Master, Tinker, Blaster and Thinker, Striker, Changer, Trump and Stranger. Worm: Power Classifications
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| Onime No Ryu | November 23, 2014, 4:52 pm Post #5 |
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I'll be your Undertaker this evening
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Yeah, the fact that those two are so different from what we usually do probably makes them the most extreme of the experiments. I feel like the Pairing one though, in particular, might go over better than the other one. Something like Soul Eater, where one person becomes the weapon and guides the user in battle, and the other becomes the user and makes use of the abilities while fighting, kind of creates not only a character relationship, but a dynamic that has to be in-sync in order for them to be successful at fighting off baddies. |
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| DVD Player | November 23, 2014, 4:58 pm Post #6 |
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Mdl. No. 00X "Burrito"
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Edited by DVD Player, November 23, 2014, 4:59 pm.
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| Onime No Ryu | November 23, 2014, 5:09 pm Post #7 |
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I'll be your Undertaker this evening
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oh my god i love purpleeyes |
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| Matttheman89 | November 23, 2014, 6:19 pm Post #8 |
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Assassin
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The character pairing idea could be interesting. |
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| oniskieth | November 23, 2014, 6:27 pm Post #9 |
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The Silver Light
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Why didn't you vote for it? |
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Katherine's Approval
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| Onime No Ryu | November 23, 2014, 10:31 pm Post #10 |
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I'll be your Undertaker this evening
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Here's another thing, this is something I whipped up just cause I wanted to make an ability system that was somewhat unique rather than just throwing it all under the magic rug, so to speak. Read through it and let me know what you think and if you'd like to use it in something. References/Inspiration Ability System |
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| NTNP | November 24, 2014, 7:50 am Post #11 |
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Admin
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Alright, so a couple of things feedback wise: 1. MC: We've done something close to this in Sin's RPs before. Most of the plot revolves around her GMPC- take Velka from Veil of the Manifested or potentially Mercury from VoC. I'd say this is a reasonable thing we have already experienced and worked well enough with before. Using an RPG example; she makes the main character whose plotline we are on and we make the companions with the more interesting backstories and quest lines. 2. Character Pairing: We haven't done this one in a while, but if you think back to KiKage's Naruto themed works you could see examples of 3-4 team pairs. It works well enough but has some drawbacks. If someone quits, then the whole narrative falls apart. Also you probably want people who will be on about the same time and have similar ideas. An example of this might be... let's say me, Onime, Kaze and Matt are all placed on one team. I'm a night poster and first thing in the morning poster, who makes about 2 posts per day. Matt and Onime are afternoon posters and get 2-3 per day. Kaze is a night poster but gets 3 out per day. With that set up, we'd have a problem. If an even happened that involved all 4 of us, you'd be waiting for me until what... 7-8pm? Meanwhile Matt and Onime have either waited around all day or just talked between them. But with your option of a single partner, it works better BUT what happens if that person quits? Overall, probably a good choice. 3. Highlander: This was done in some degrees in ME the first time around, hence why we killed something like 8 of the 14 original characters before day 2. It's good until someone gets upset then things fall apart. I think you'd have to be very careful with this idea to make it happen. But I'd support it- then again, perhaps that's just the tournament fan in me or because I just want a zombie survival story. 4. A world of our own: I did this one, with this very community for the Silver Age (Fire Emblem) RPs. I still have all the data and intend to basically use it for any and all future fantasy worlds since it creates a very unique and varied set of ideas, beliefs etc. Interesting and fun, for those who enjoy world building. If you wanted to create a project like this and combined enough things together to create a "this is where all generic fantasy stories take place" sort of realm it would be awesome but it also requires a lot of work. I wouldn't suggest this- but that's just because I've already done it once. 5. Ability Based System: Seems fun and interesting. I could see using it relatively easily and since most of my characters' abilities and personalities are in sync it makes sense. If we ran through a few examples of extremely well known characters and saw how it worked we would probably have a better idea of how to use it though. I'd lean toward either a current character or one from a successful- NON COH WORK- and go from there. |
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| Onime No Ryu | November 24, 2014, 8:03 am Post #12 |
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I'll be your Undertaker this evening
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The thing about Sin's RPs is that the stories aren't so much Velka's stories or Mercury's stories, they just have a very strong, centralized plot line--Defeat Atlas, Defeat Adrien, etc. If Mercury were really the main character, for instance, I would think that we would see a lot more of her than we have. (Not saying Sin's not posting enough or anything, mind you.) Look at those walls of text I post for Lee's inner soliloquies, and how much interaction the other characters have had. If Mercury were the main character, most of that would have been off-screen or something done via flashback or whatever. The thing about a main character is that the story revolves around them--literally everything happens because of them or their involvement with a situation. If Mercury weren't there, I don't think much would have changed in VoC so far. The thing about the Naruto RP is that it required more than two people in each group to make it work. I feel like, if the pairings were literally just that, then unless one partner has to have an extended period of leave, I feel like it'd be much easier to keep up with. There wouldn't be anything preventing characters from interacting outside their pairs, it'd just be that the pairing has an impact on their abilities and story function. If a person has to quit, then someone can make a replacement, or puppet, or whatever. Puppeting when required would probably actually be easier, because they'd have a much better idea of what the character is like from interacting with them on such a deep level. Yeah, making sure people don't have hurt feelings is a big problem with this idea. I think if it was well understood that there could only be one winner, though, most people would be able to accept it. And like I said, it'd probably work better if there was a secondary RP running alongside it that they could switch to whenever they were eliminated. You did this one for the Fire Emblem RP and pretty much for Calatia's Throne too, but what I was saying was more like, instead of just accepting contributions from other people, we lay down some ground rules and conditions, and let other people do whatever they want, whenever they want, complete sandbox style, within those limitations, and just keep building. Whereas your RPs were like kickstarter games where people who donated got their ideas incorporated, what I'm talking about would be like a jigsaw puzzle MMO where everyone put in a piece, and then keeps adding expansions as time goes on, the world getting huger and having more to explore all the time. Yeah, I could try whipping up some examples I think. Do you have any suggestions as to what could be added or simplified? Maybe some ideas for elemental combinations? I was thinking of having whatever elements the person had in their inheritance but didn't choose for their ability have some kind of influence, but I dunno. Thanks for all your feedback! |
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| Winters | November 27, 2014, 12:25 am Post #13 |
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Hee-ho
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Oh boy, I get to contribute my thoughts! Main Character: I think that this is an interesting idea that could potentially lead into a much stronger narrative. After all, if you have a clear protagonist then it is much easier to create a more concrete story based around them. However, I do have some misgivings as well. My real concern with this idea is that it puts a lot of pressure on whoever is writing the protagonist. If the protagonist isn't particularly interesting then the story probably won't hold up very well. If the story doesn't hold up well then it's hard to keep people interested in it. Still, if you feel like you or somebody else could do a good job at handling that responsibility then I have no other objections. I think that it could be a wonderful idea if it's done properly. Character Pairing: I'm all for this idea. It can make for some very interesting dynamics between different characters. I do agree with NTNP though that it can cause some issues if one of the members of a party just drops off the face of the earth. Then again, that seems to be a problem in whatever RP we run. Highlander: I feel like this style of RP has to be short by necessity. It can be very fun, but battle royale stories shouldn't last very long. So while it is a good idea I also feel that it can only really be a secondary RP. World All Our Own: I have reservations about this idea. While a sandbox does sound entertaining, I do have some problems with those kind of settings in general. I feel that there tends to be a problem in these kind of settings because there is too little direction for the characters. It's a similar problem to what you can find in open-world games: while there is a multitude of choices it can be difficult to maintain motivation if there isn't at least something of an overarching goal. Abilities: My biggest concern here is that the addition of the third tier might make for too many possibilities. While I can understand why you want to make abilities more individualized I can also see why there might be a problem if you make abilities too specific. This is also why I feel that it's a bit unnecessary for there to be an ability for both plants and wood. All that being said, I absolutely love your idea of implementing limitations to abilities in exchange for power. It can lead to abilities becoming much more tailored to an individual character, and that screams "amazing" to me! |
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| Onime No Ryu | November 27, 2014, 12:48 am Post #14 |
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I'll be your Undertaker this evening
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Thanks so much for your feedback man, I had almost given up on anybody being really interested in this! Yeah, the MC thing will definitely require strong writing skills, and that's something I completely forgot to address. We could still communicate with each other outside the RP like we usually do, though, and if the conversation was steered more towards helping the narrative improve, I think anyone could manage to do it. The thing is, any advice offered would have to be given in a way that can't be misconstrued as overly critical, and the person who's being given the advice has to be in a mindset to accept it. Doing that without hurt feelings can be very difficult, especially with such strong and quirky personalities as we all know we have. Still, I think if we were committed, we could pull it off. Yeah, the pairing idea seems to be the most popular with the least amount of problems. One thing I've noticed that seems to keep players from dropping out all the time, or at least causes them to pass their character to someone else temporarily when they have to run, though, is an attachment to their character. That kind of thing develops more easily, in my most recent experience, when they really get inside their character's heads and then combine that with interaction with others. I've enjoyed using my character Lee Xin in Sin's Veil of Chaos RP WAY, WAY more than I've enjoyed using any character in YEARS, and I think it's because I've put a lot of effort into revealing the inner workings of his mind and thus I have a much better grasp of him as a character. I think everyone could benefit from that, just in general, not as a requirement for this specific RP. I feel the same way. If it was a secondary RP running alongside something else, it would provide a good outlet for boredom whenever the main RP slowed down. The plan for plot in the open world idea would be entirely up to the players and their characters. I think if everyone communicated and two or three players decided they wanted to make a storyline of their own, we could easily sort things out into "arcs" where players who cross each others' paths find themselves drawn into conflicts and adventures and whatnot without having to commit to a full novel length thing. Multiples of them could even be happening at once, perhaps. It is difficult to find drive in such an open world, but I think if we put a lot more emphasis on characters driving the story it could work. The thing about the tiers for the ability system is that I want to try and get as specialized as possible while still holding onto that "elemental" flavor so that people are still somewhat familiar with it when compared to our usual magic systems. I feel like if I went for a straight up, shonen-style "You get one power that you have to make up on your own, and while it can have multiple applications it can only be ONE power" it would be too general a system and people would have trouble thinking up what they wanted their ability to be. By providing specializations and narrowing the focus down, putting in limits, it makes things less freeform but provides a much more stable framework. I remember reading a while back that our imaginations actually work BETTER under limits than they do without, because with limits we have a starting point and a "wall" to try and work around. For example, try to write any original story you want. Then try to write a story in which this is your premise: You were at the zoo, but somehow slipped and fell into the lion's enclosure. I think you'll find the latter much easier to envision and crank out a few paragraphs about. |
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| Knight of Tigers | November 27, 2014, 2:06 am Post #15 |
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Cat-Eared Complex Blitzkreig from the South
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NEW IDEAS PROPOSED REDEFINITIONS AND ADDITIONS SQUARED MAGICS (POSSIBLE REDEFINITIONS)
Edited by Knight of Tigers, November 27, 2014, 2:42 am.
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| DVD Player | November 27, 2014, 2:09 am Post #16 |
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Mdl. No. 00X "Burrito"
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The third-tier system depends on entirely what's available and what we want to specialize in. Obviously in my list that I'll have below I'm leaving out more contradictory combinations outside of Light and Dark. For the third tier, I had a tough time deciding if I wanted secondary elements to combine or if it was like tripling up on Primary elements. Of course, then I looked up "Tertiary Colours" and that also got me thinking to combining 1 Primary Element with 1 Secondary Element like how the Tertiary Colours are a primary colour with a secondary colour. For Tier 3, some elements still don't quite combine (Earth/Lightening being on idea), so I'm going with the principle that a Tier 3 Element cannot include a contradictory element outside of Light or Dark in the Secondary Element (some stuff just don't make sense otherwise). So here we go. Tier 1: Primary Elements. Fire Earth Water Wind Light - The physical aspect of light. Lasers, illusions, flashes, all that good stuff. Dark - The physical aspect of dark. Shadows, stealth, and all that good stuff. Tier 2: Secondary Elements. Primary + Primary. Lightning - Fire/Wind Magma - Fire/Earth Plant - Water/Earth Ice - Water/Wind Gravity - Dark/Earth Pollution - Dark/Wind - Ambiguous, but my thinking is that it has more to do with smoke and toxic clouds; generally stuff that's unbreathable and torrential. Corruption - Dark/Water - Slime, oil, liquid poison, thick mucky polluted stuff. Ash - Dark/Fire - Another ambiguous one. Deals with burnt and lost remains and manipulating them. Comet - Light/Earth - Projectile based I can imagine. Stardust and celestial stuff like that. Spirit - Light/Wind - Kind of ambiguous. Dealing more with ghosts and that stuff. Holy - Light/Water - Healing/purging magic. Solar - Light/Fire - Directed energy and things to do with all that. Chaos - Light/Dark - Annihilation. Take inspiration from the idea of combining matter and anti-matter. Tier 3: Tertiary Elements. Primary Squared. Metal - Earth/Earth Sound - Wind/Wind Energy - Fire/Fire - Dealing more with manipulating thermal energy than fire. Body - Water/Water - Who doesn't love a little blood magic? Occult - Dark/Dark - Necromancy and the more ambiguous aspects of Dark magic Almighty - Light/Light - Passive Blessing effects and summoning. The more ambiguous aspects of Light magic. Did some editing and went with the elements-squared part. I, too, noticed that with the Tertiary Elements that have of them were just mostly one element and could fall under that element's category anyways. So to deal with more unique magic-types I've gone with the squared-method to keep the unique Tier 3 magics while not really hurting the system. I've also separated Light and Dark into Light/Almighty and Dark/Occult to separate the ambiguous aspects from the physical aspects and narrow down their focus to keep it more balanced. There are still some holes in this system though, particularly in Mind magic. Not really offensive-magic, but deals with mind-reading and mental situations. Could fall under Occult, but is still also its own thing. Could also work as a Primary Element and a Tertiary element only (combining with other elements would be weird). So like this: Primary: Mind Tertiary: Dream - Mind/Mind - Kind of like illusions, but closer to hallucinations. Making enemies think, hear, and feel things that aren't actually there. It's this unique hard-to-combine aspect that makes it difficult to include. Another issue is that it has no inherent opposites or anything to balance it out. Everything else there to some extent has an opposite. There's also the issue of Time and Space. Time is inherently OP; there's a lot of room to do stuff with it and so much potential, but it's REALLY difficult to balance and control. Space, on the other hand, is a lot easier to control (Me having made a Space character in PersonA's past RP) and has its own unique aspects; but it doesn't feel... right to have it stand on its own without an opposite (Time) and without any potential Secondary or Tertiary elements (neither have room for it). Edited by DVD Player, November 27, 2014, 2:28 pm.
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| Onime No Ryu | November 27, 2014, 9:41 am Post #17 |
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I'll be your Undertaker this evening
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Knight: Travel: I like the idea, but I'd also like to point out that spatial manipulation in the physics sense of it (not in the sense of like, spells that shoot meteors and things) is very tricky to do without being overpowered, even with a lot of limitations applied to it. Still though, since part of this system is based around limiting oneself, I think it could work. Could you explain some more about it, maybe give some examples? Also, I kind of think that since it's a spatial type of element, maybe replace Earth with Gravity? Space: Again, reality warping stuff is really hard to keep a lid on sometimes. If it was just used for teleportation and things like that, though, I bet it would be doable. Again, though, maybe replace one of the elements with Gravity? Time: I'm sort of against this one because no matter how many limits there are on it, it can be a massive game-changer, especially in combat. Freezing time even for as short a period as five seconds (ZA WARUDO) is incredibly powerful. Astral: Love this, going to add it. Need to come up with something for the Mind element though, it'd obviously be a Spirit combination, but with what? Possibly Light, as Niroth mentioned prospects of Light and Dark elements? Beast redefinition: Yeah, Spirit+Form makes more sense, don't know why I didn't make it that way. I think the healing aspect should be more limited, though--it won't always be present, but if the person is channeling the power of say, reptiles, their healing factor could increase as a result and things like that. Blood type healing: I had planned for Bone to be a separate but related element, as it uses some of the same parts in combination. Maybe get more in depth with this and discuss it, cause I definitely like the idea. The thing about a Life element is that Spirit already pretty much is that, dealing with the transfer of life force. A stacked spirit user would pretty much be the definition of a life mage. Strength renamed to Force: I agree that it makes it more flexible, but I'm a little worried that making it more "conceptual" could make it a little TOO flexible, giving it applications that weren't really intended. Deeper discussion? Gravity redefinition: I sort of like Gravity as is, but I'd definitely be open to another definition if we worked it a little. Also related to the above, since the definitions of Force would have implications on this. Paper redefinition: That also makes more sense, although maybe substitute plants with wood, since paper is primarily made from trees nowadays instead of plant fibers? Squared Magics: This is actually closer to how it worked in my old Rune Masters idea; the element combinations depended on ratios too. For instance, Metal was actually one Fire Rune and two Earth runes, while Lava was the reverse. However, the problem with this is that it would end up taking out the "Stack" concept, which is both a control method and an empowering system. It provides control because while hybrids will usually be more versatile or specific in function, first tier elements will be more capable of stacking and thus have more raw power without having as many options or being as good at something as another tier. Niroth Light and Dark: I want to add these, but I'm conflicted as to their natures and abilities. In most works, Dark is treated as the ability to make shadows solid and manipulate them or to conjure darkness from nothing, things like that. I'm of the opinion, personally, that that's really dumb because that's not how shadows and darkness work at all. I think more meta concepts of darkness, or things related to illusion, are more fitting--but the problem with those is that they cover some of the same areas that Light does, especially in the illusion aspect of controlling what people see. I was thinking that Light could basically be a holy type of element, but I'm also conflicted on that because it would either make things really strong (calling on the power of gods) or kind of situational (only works against Evil/Undead/etc.) Proposal for Secondary and Tertiary Elements: I like some of these, but a great deal of them seem to me like they would have a lot of overlap or else they wouldn't be as specific as some of the things I've already got. We can definitely talk more about it though. Typeless: I don't think typelessness would be a thing, honestly, as even "non elemental" abilties like being superstrong would fall under something, like Force/Strength. Also, just as a note, this is intended as an Ability system, not necessarily a magical system. Think less RPG spells and more Battle Shonen Powers, although I realize that might envoke a groan or eyeroll because of how cliche and trite those can be sometimes. Thanks so much for your feedback, guys! Edited by Onime No Ryu, November 27, 2014, 8:05 pm.
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| DVD Player | November 27, 2014, 2:29 pm Post #18 |
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Mdl. No. 00X "Burrito"
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Edited my system to weed out the elements that are too blended with another while dealing with the Dark/Light issue. Still a couple holes in it, though. I feel like it's really close to a system where there's enough room for doing almost anything with the magic in the system. |
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| Knight of Tigers | November 27, 2014, 6:24 pm Post #19 |
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Cat-Eared Complex Blitzkreig from the South
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I'm... I'm not Choco though... ^_^;; Anyways... Foreword: When I was charting all this stuff out, I was imagining the elements you described as not only atomic (in the sense of irreducible) forces, but also conceptual forces as well, hence why things like Earth + Spirit = Endurance happens (the conceptual durability of 'Earth' is drawn out by the inward focus of the Spirit component). This is why some of the proposals I've put forward may have seemingly odd combinations; rest assured there is a method to the madness, and I'd like to hear your thoughts on this interpretation. Regarding Travel magic: I compared it to a spatial type of magic, but it only really scratches the surface. As I mentioned, it operates at a conceptual level rather than a physical one. So for example, a Travel spell that shortens the travel time spent on a road (and ONLY on a road!) doesn't physically shrink the distance between departure and destination; it merely hastens the travellers along their path. Furthermore, Travel spells can reduce or lengthen the amount of time spent on a journey, but they cannot remove the presence of the journey altogether, i.e. outright teleportation. The focus of the spell is the journey itself, at both an operational and philosophical level, so to remove it entirely would defeat the purpose. Travel spells are all about paths and movement, so another way in which they are like spatial spells is to create shortcuts, Moebius strips and invisible forks in the road. The way it differs is that Space magic accomplishes these sorts of things by folding or warping space, whereas Travel magic 'rewrites' the road or path in such a way that the alteration has "always been there" and then is forgotten as soon as the spell effect ends. As for replacing the Earth component with a Gravity component, it's certainly valid. However - and I know I keep coming back to this point, but bear with me - the combination of Speed and Earth is what results in the power of "altering paths and movement, changing the how and what of treading the land with your own two feet", as opposed to Speed and Gravity which would be just outright Space magic (I don't know why I went with Form and Endurance for that, in hindsight). tl;dr it's a subtle, vague kind of magic that tricksters and merchants alike enjoy the benefits of. Regarding Time and Space magic: Fair points. Perhaps it would work if Space magic was replaced with Travel magic entirely? Non-overpowered Time-related effects could be folded into Speed as well. Regarding Astral and Mind magic: Since you don't seem to be on-board with the squared magic idea (see below), I'll have another look at my chart and try and juggle some stuff around. I'll give it further thought during the day and get back to you on possibilities. Light and Dark elements would certainly make things easier - as I mentioned in the chat last night - but as a personal sort of thing, I've never really liked Light and Dark being quintessential elements... BUT! It's your universe, so whatever you decide, I'll roll with it and see what kind of possibilities open up. Regarding Beast and Blood magic: These wound up the way they were 'cause I missed the section on Stacking, hahaha. Stacking certainly makes more sense, and I'll factor it into the chart right away. Although you say you'd like me to be more in-depth with Blood magic, I'm sort of a bit shaky on it. If possible, I'd like to sit down and have a proper discussion on the definitions and interplay of Blood, Spirit, Life and Bone magics with you at some point so I can get a clearer idea of what you're visualising. Regarding Strength/Force: The only reason I thought this might be a good idea is - as I mentioned in the Foreword - I've interpreted these elements at both quintessential and conceptual levels. Force seems to make more sense when it comes to fusing elements; similar to Speed of Earth being Travel, the Force of Earth being Gravity feels a bit more, I dunno, natural than Strength of Earth, or Force of Fire being Explosion rather than Strength of Fire... In short, it's really just a semantic thing. Thoughts? Regarding Gravity magic: I see how Gravity magic can come through Earth and Wind (the 'downwardness' of the Earth plus the 'invisible force' of Wind, for example). As you said, this is entirely reliant on how you choose to interpret Strength/Force, but the logic behind my idea was more or less the same as the definition I just described, only with more specific elements. Regarding Paper magic: I just shoved Plant and Wood into the same umbrella category, honestly. I've never really seen them as anything different. Wood is just a big plant if you think about it. But again, that's just my personal perspective, so whatever works for you, I'll adjust the chart to reflect it. Squared magics: As mentioned earlier, I missed the section on Stacking, so this was just a wild theory that I used to accommodate the fact that some elemental combinations doubled up (which just set off OCD flags in me right away, haha) while also factoring in elements like Metal and Mind which HAD to be second-tier elements to allow for more advanced forms. Always open to further discussion about this sort of stuff. I can give my Skype details if you (or anyone else reading this) wants 'em; makes these sorts of planning conversations go a lot faster. Edited by Knight of Tigers, November 27, 2014, 6:30 pm.
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| Onime No Ryu | November 27, 2014, 8:39 pm Post #20 |
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I'll be your Undertaker this evening
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Oh god I'm so sorry I don't know why I thought you were Choco...Man I feel like a moron now. Sorry Knights/Tigers, whichever you prefer to be called. Conceptual factors are certainly part of what I was thinking when I came up with some of my rough ideas, too. Applying those kinds of things to powers and whatnot always makes them more interesting to me, but there's also the problem of everyone interpreting things differently. People will come up with ideas I would have never thought of, which can be a good thing, but sometimes they'll go in a direction that wasn't really intended and that can change the balance of an entire system. For instance, most people associate Fire with aggression, strength, force, destruction, etc. But sometimes it's seen as having ties to inspiration, to enlightenment, to warmth and generosity, and so on and so forth. There are so many ideas of what Fire, just by itself, could represent that a whole system of magic could probably be developed around that by itself. That's one reason I wanted to be very specific when I came up with this system, hence things like how Inheritance is determined, Suitability and Choice combined with Limits and Conditions, and so on. Travel magic, in more depth, still sounds interesting but I'm also concerned that it may actually be a little too niche or that it's sort of made obsolete by other abilities. For example, hastening a journey, that seems like something that a Speed ability would be able to do too functionally by turning the traveler into a speedster, and the alteration of paths to confuse enemies seems like it could be done with an illusionary type of ability, I mean, to the extent of them suddenly realizing they've been walking in circles for a long time. Maybe it could have some navigational type of applications, to further differentiate it...although I'm not sure at the moment what kind of abilities besides "pigeon-homing" or "radar/sonar" would be considered "navigational." Since the Astral and Mind ideas might depend on Light and Dark, there'll be a section in a minute where I talk about those. Well, I actually didn't have a whole lot in mind for what Blood abilities would be. I just wanted to create as many "subjects" for abilities to be based on as possible, so that people would have as many options as possible to create unique powersets while still having a framework for them to work within to make the creation of those abilities easier. Healing could be an application, maybe manipulating people puppet style (although that would have to be regulated a bit to keep it from being overpowered), Vampire style abilities might work...A whole lot of this really depends on how creative other people are with it, too. Bone magic was pretty much the same, and as I mentioned before, Spirit pretty much is Life. The Spirit element is all about drawing out the energies of life in multiple senses. I agree, Force makes way more sense than Strength in several ways. Strength brings to mind the physical, and it would probably have played out more like typical Body Enhancement abilities--super strength, close range combat abilities, etc. Like I said, though, everyone's going to have a different take on it. In this case it might not be so bad though, because as long as it's understood to mean like, the scientific kind of force, even its conceptual applications will be based on that understanding of it by most people. The reason I split Wood and Plants up is mostly because I envisioned Wood as having more earthy traits, being strong and hardy and resilient, something capable of being shaped in large amounts but not something flexible, and Plants as having more watery traits, with the ability to change their forms or applications by producing fruits, seeds, pollen, etc and being something that's not very strong in a muscular sense but that can be very flexible and adaptable. Plus it keeps a person from controlling all nature's aspects with it, which means being anywhere outside a completely concrete city with them doesn't always give them a huge advantage over you. If you want to give your Skype details out just PM me, but I actually prefer planning things like this that everyone would know and be using from the beginning in public topics where everyone can chime in with their own ideas. It's usually just when Plot aspects are involved that I take it to Skype or PM in order to be all secretive about it. Taking everything everyone so far has said into account, I'm currently rewriting the elemental tiers to include Light, possibly Dark, and several of the other combinations you guys have given me. Hopefully nothing I come up with makes you feel like your idea was discarded or wrongly interpreted, but be assued that's most certainly not what I'm going for here. I just want each ability to be "its own thing" as much as possible. Also, after I finish rewriting it, I'll probably make a few example characters that could exist in a setting that used this system, so maybe we'll have a better understanding of what it's meant to be used for and what it's capable of. |
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| Onime No Ryu | November 28, 2014, 2:48 pm Post #21 |
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I'll be your Undertaker this evening
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Reworked Elements Here is a quick character "sketch" that hopefully demonstrate how an Ability under this system would be used: Ability User Some New Rules and Stuff So, what do you guys think of all this? |
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| NTNP | November 28, 2014, 3:33 pm Post #22 |
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Admin
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I will make a couple of comments about the tier system first: Make the first tiers fire, water, earth, wind and spirit. It'll help make things simpler and easier to use, along with potentially decreasing the overall 'size' of the list. Moving on, I would introduce 'stand alone' elements in tier 2 that are more powerful that otherwise don't fit anywhere else such as dark, light and void. This is especially true given the fact that alot of the hybridizations would fit in tier 3 better than in tier 2. Since most of your tier 3s seem to be tier 1 + 2, this will help give a lot of unique options all the way around. Now to specific advice: The sheet: Add inheritance lists or abilities etc to the basic list to give an example of how it works. I like the idea of a primary (earth) and secondary (water) = mud or something to help everyone understand how this occurs. The remainder of the system relying on 'forms and compatibility' is fine to my eyes. It makes sense and gives a lot of examples of application. The combinations: Explosion and soundwaves should go together into a single category. Dust should replace Sand, since it makes a bit more sense. Merge plants and wood together already! Otherwise the others work well enough and I support the idea of having spirit + primary element only creating one possible application instead of the two. Additionally have you considered applying spirit + light/darkness as perhaps creating holy/demonic magic? It would also be very interesting having spirit + current secondary elements potentially bringing the thing sentient/summonable/commandable etc? |
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| Onime No Ryu | November 28, 2014, 4:07 pm Post #23 |
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I'll be your Undertaker this evening
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I don't think the size of the list is too bad at this point; I actually think if it were leaning to the longer side it would be better, because that would give people more options. One of the things I want to accomplish here is basically a "make up your own power" thing but with enough structure available that people can get an easier idea of how they want to do things. Thus we need a fairly long list to cover a huge number of options. I don't think having non hybridized (singular) elements in tier 2 would fit the kind of system we have so far, though. Hybrids are supposed to represent both extremes, either a very strong but very limited element, or a very weak but very versatile element. A singular element, because of its stronger stacking potential, and because it's more vague by nature than the hybrids, seems like it would be too in the middle, too versatile but too strong at the same time. Add inheritance to the character example, you mean? Sure, I could do that. Explosions are based on heat stuff, combustion. Sound is based on, well, sound. Both can go "boom" but the boom of Explosion would be the kind that burns you or melts something, while sound would vibrate through defenses or push you in a direction. Plus, like I said, the balance between strength and versatility is the point of the hybrid system. But if this, as well as the Wood/Plant merge, is supported by other people I'll go ahead and do it. I just happen to think they're different enough in their natures and applications to justify splitting them up. Yeah, Dust replacing Sand will be fine. Holy/Demonic magic is already being used a little bit. Did you see the parts about Seals and things? Summoning could actually probably be done with a few elements as they are already, I think. There's Beast for animal companions, Crafting or Metal maybe for golem type stuff or little robot pals, and stuff like that. One thing that everyone keeps doing, though, is thinking of this with the mindset of Magic and Spells. This isn't intended for that. This is an Ability system, a power system, but it's not based on learning spells, being born with magic in your blood, consuming a mana supply, or any of that. Think of this as a classification and gameplay system intended to help the Player's understanding, but in-verse as being basically a superpower genetics, X-Men type of thing, or a Naruto style "train until you unlock it" type of learned superpowers. Again, thanks for your feedback, and although my response probably didn't come off as supportive as it did last time, I promise I didn't intend to belittle your ideas or anything. I just happen to disagree with a few aspects. But like I said, if more people pop up and agree, I can definitely change the system around so that it's better by the majority opinion. |
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| NTNP | November 28, 2014, 4:24 pm Post #24 |
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Admin
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No worries Onime. I'm not going to get upset over my ideas not working out for you. |
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| DVD Player | November 28, 2014, 5:46 pm Post #25 |
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Mdl. No. 00X "Burrito"
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My thoughts: First Tier: -Basic four are obvious- Spirit - Makes some sense to have this on its own. I liked my idea of Spirit being a combination of Light and Wind (there's a lot of significance in different cultures and ancient religions regarding spirits and wind), but it can also be its own thing depending on the model. Light - Light on its own as a physical aspect is a good separation. Void - I like this distinction. There's a lot you can do with void, but not a lot you can do with Dark alone. Granted, I also grouped this under my Chaos combination of combining light and dark; utter annihilation and nothingness. Granted, there's also a lot you can do with "Dark" as an absence of light, and solid-shadow magic is totally cool and possible. Maybe consider making Void and combo of Light and Dark and making Dark as a physical aspect a thing? Second Tier: Fire and Earth Hybrids: No comments here. Fire and Wind Hybrids: I like the idea of multiple kinds of combination options and considered this myself as I proposed my model. Sound - I suppose the fire aspect makes sense. If a Cavitation Bubble is loud enough, the collapse can generate RIDICULOUS amounts of thermal energy (look up Pistol Shrimp), so there's sense here. Fire and Water Hybrids: Steam - Doesn't seem worth having on its own, and not much you can with it besides blowing around hot air. Which also begs the question: wouldn't Air fit in here as well? One reason why I avoid contradictory combinations. Acid - Also something I'm questioning. My idea of the Corruption element was to group this sort of stuff in it. Fire and Spirit Hybrids: Force - A lot of stuff you can do with this is also stuff you can either do with specific elements or just with Wind magic. Earth and Wind Hybrids: Sand - Wouldn't this just be Earth? Also another reason why I avoided contradictory combinations; not much you can do with them. Gravity - Doesn't make sense to have this as a combination of Earth and Air; considering their philosophies and design completely contradict each other. Earth and Water Hybrids: Mud - Sludge and Slime and thick stuff was another element I grouped into Corruption. Wood - I considered making this its own thing, but it also just makes sense to group it together with Plants. Plant - Yeah I'd merge this with Wood. Earth and Spirit Hybrids: Endurance - Questioning the extent of this a little, considering that later on it could reach stupid OP levels. Not to mention there's not much you can actually do with this; maybe combine it with Weapon considering its uses (as I'll explain later) Wind and Water Hybrids: Wouldn't Snow just be Ice? Wind and Spirit Hybrids: Speed - Again, a lot of the stuff you can do with this you could just do with Wind magic or other elements (use Explosion magic to make jets or something). Doesn't seem worth having on its own. Water and Spirit Hybrids: Form - Shape-shifting? Nice. Light and Fire Hybrids: Star - I like the term "Solar" better ![]() Light and Earth Hybrids: Seal - This sounds like Curse magic, which would fall under darker territories in terms of design. Light and Wind Hybrids: Aether - ...So it's basically the same as Spirit magic but more limited? I'd just group this into Spirit. Light and Water Hybrids: Alchemy - I didn't think of this, and this makes a LOT more sense as a Water/Light combination than my idea (had a lot of trouble thinking of Water/Light combo). Light and Spirit Hybrids: Mind - The abilities of mind are broad. If we're talking mind-reading and mind-control, that sounds a little dark/demonic, while telekinetic powers kind of just fall under Gravity. Light and Void Hybrids: Darkness - Light and Void? Void Hybrids: This is where my idea of treating Dark as physical Dark came in, and then when combining it with other elements I could come up with "Corrupted" or "Darker" versions like Ash and Pollution. Third Tier: Magnetism - This magic just sounds like stuff you could do with Gravity (which isn't just making stuff heavier or lighter; it has applications in forcing and moving things as well since directional gravity is a thing), as well the ability to control metal just... sounds like Metal magic. Doesn't seem worth having on its own. Poison - Wouldn't Plant and Fire just burn? Seems more like a Dark-magic territory. Blood - Makes sense for the combination. Weapon - Maybe consider this the ability to imbue spirits into weapons and make them possessed/more powerful. While that sounds like more of a Spirit magic territory, it makes sense to have Metal in there. Armor - Sounds more like either Form magic or just using Metal magic. Crystal - Okay. Glass - This is Crystal. This is exactly Crystal magic. Paper - Eeehhhhh I've read Paranatural so I know Paper Control is a thing, but it still seems weird to have this at all. Storm/Weather/Cloud - I considered Storm, but as an ability you're basically just shooting Lightning, so it seemed to make more sense to have Lightning as a magic alone. If you do want to keep it, it makes more sense as a Lightning/Water combo than Steam. Bone - Maybe include this with Blood and call it "Body Magic"? Beast - Okay. Crafting - Doesn't make sense to group an entire class of magic around basically one or two different spells. Astral - Sounds too much like Spirit and Aether magic. Space - Space could work in combinations, but at the same time it stands alone as a concept of the fabric of reality. There are no real elements; it's just space. Time - Ditto with Space. Overall not bad; but I'd suggest looking over my revised model. Squared elements as Tier 3 keeps the system simpler and not as dauntingly big. Some good ideas there, but there's a lot of stuff that overlaps with other magic or is basically the same as another class of magic. |
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