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| SICK COMBOS AND SHIT; A discussion topic for Veil of Chaos | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: November 8, 2014, 2:31 pm (2,032 Views) | |
| NTNP | February 27, 2015, 7:26 pm Post #26 |
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Admin
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It isn't a bad idea, but the Mark of the Hunted in initial design was meant to be more of a weak move meant to annoy more than end any sort of fight. But instead what if we looked at what it allows to happen- Shadow Strike. Basically every opponent with the Othellian seal becomes open to Angelo's melee/magic counter blow later on during the fight. Perhaps that could make a cool combo effect? Let's see how it sounds. We are on another battlefield and Angelo has marked 7 basic Ebonscourge and 1 boss using his ability for the last three rounds. Now usually when he triggers Shadow Strike, Angelo would disappear in a puff of smoke and then appear near/behind/atop/underneath his target to release a melee/magical attack which is equal to him blasting them with Mark of the Hunted followed by a slash. Strong enough for peon class enemies, for the most part. But when he tries it against the boss (who at this point isn't very damaged) it does about the same as Feng cleaving him or Sera blasting with a fireball- damaging but not enough to really set the bar much higher than what others could do usually. However what if he brought someone else along for the ride? Let's go with Lee again for this imagining. This time around, Angelo triggers his ability but instead of him becoming enveloped by the smoke- Lee is too. Both of them pop to where the first Ebonscourge is. Angelo lunges forward from the creature's shadow, slicing it's stomach open and then Lee follows behind him, stomping down creating a purple sigil and punches the creature with a darkness empowered strike. Both then vanish into the shadows. The next Ebonscourge has Lee coming out first, delivering a powerful roundhouse kick to it's head before Angelo pops out causing a tendril of darkness to impale it mid flip. This continues throughout the minion class. However against the boss class- it changes slightly from an auto kill (like most abilities) to something functionally similar but more in line with what I think this is supposed to be. After emerging from the shadows behind the boss Ebonscourge, Angelo would use a melee slash to the creature's back with usual damage dealing effects. Lee might appear from below at the same time, using an uppercut to knock it skyward. Together they would both release their own dark magic energy straight toward the creature before blasting themselves back into the shadows to reappear where they began again. It would (damage wise) be the same as using two Shadow Strikes, one from Angelo and one from Lee meaning that the boss would eat 4 likely to hit, if you haven't seen the move before, attacks of regular strength. So think that might be interesting, fair and balanced? |
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| Onime No Ryu | February 28, 2015, 11:25 am Post #27 |
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I'll be your Undertaker this evening
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I don't think hitting multiple enemies would be allowed except in an AOE format; again, it sounds to me like these are just Super Moves meant to basically blast a target hard. Things that last multiple rounds or give access to some new form or mode or weapon or whatever don't seem like they would count. I'm thinking those moves from Chrono Trigger where two or more characters could combine attacks, the Synchro Artes as already mentioned from the Tales Series, and stuff like that, as opposed to Fusion in DBZ or just plain "working together." |
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| Person A | December 22, 2015, 3:20 am Post #28 |
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Best to sleep on it.
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How long has it been between the combination skills being available and now? Surely some people have had some ideas about sick combos and shit over the months. So how about it? Anyone have any? I feel like Volke will definitely be picking up Turn-it-UP to 11 when he finally catches up to Aria's level 10, but other than that I'm really interested in emulating X-Strike from Chrono Trigger with Volke and... Well, I guess the closest one to Volke would be Ritzea, but she technically doesn't have anything that'd work for a X-Strike inspired attack. Alternatively I could just put Volke with Sera and complete that particular love triangle, haha. Though, I think DS and I had plans for Sera's Fireball to work with Ritzea's Fire Wave, give it more power and a burn effect after anything survives it. Pretty sure Sin said two per character, so I doubt DS would want to put both of them with my characters. How does that work with Darion and Kuro, anyways? But, yeah, anyone have any ideas for some truly awesome attacks? |
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| Onime No Ryu | December 22, 2015, 6:25 am Post #29 |
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I'll be your Undertaker this evening
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Honestly aside from Angelo and Ritzea, and maybe Ammy, I don't know if Lee's gotten close enough to anyone for either him or even me as the player to know their capabilities enough to do combos. The only suggestion I really had since we got more clarification on what they were was the Shadow Fist thing with Angelo. Ritzea had a barrier that reflected damage, right? What if she summons that barrier, but behind an enemy, and then Lee runs up and either flying kick or mega punches them into it, trapping their body between the impact of the punch and the reflection of that same impact? Like holding somebody against an electric fence. |
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| Sin | December 22, 2015, 9:57 am Post #30 |
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Slow and steady...
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I think what I originally decided was that at level ten, everyone got access to two different combo attacks. I can't recall what I'd decided would be the growth rate as far as getting more of them goes but I know that ones I personally issue will be much more powerful in effect. There are quite a few character relations, at least for my characters, that warrant a combo attack. So long as the characters involved have mutual respect for each other or wield the same type of weapon or abilities, the combos are good to go. The list so far: Atlantis: Mercury, Feng, Angelo, Any Cloud Knight, Velka, Isaac Atlantis can naturally combo with her daughter and their magics tie together well. She's had multiple interactions with Feng and entrusted her daughter's protection to the man so they could combo well. Her family has a close relationship with Angelo and their opposite light/dark ability sets could create interesting effects. Atlantis can naturally combo with any member of the Cloud Knights since a long-standing relationship is implied. She can also combo with royalty from other lands provided she has had interactions with them. A relationship with Tel is implied by the presence of ambassadors. Mercury: Atlantis, Amaterasu, Feng, Dawn, Any Cloud Knight, Lee Mercury can naturally combo well with her mother and their ability sets compliment each other. She has had multiple interactions with Amaterasu so there's so potential for combos there. Angelo is for the most part her teacher and keeper so he understands what she is capable of and can combo with her. Feng is her protector and despite some apprehension toward him, the two would work well together. Dawn and Mercury have already combined their attacks before so future examples are likely. Like her mother, Mercury can attack alongside any other Cloud Knight for the same reason as above. Kurollo: Forsetti, Darion, Feng, Sera, Volke, Aria Kurollo and Forsetti have been with each other for quite some time so combination attacks involving the two are a given. Kurollo and Darion have already attacked together to devastating results so more combinations are a given. Kurollo has had some interaction with Feng and by the simple act of throwing him, Feng can allow Kurollo to do things he couldn't do alone. Kurollo has had some interaction with Sera, Volke and Aria so there is potential there. Vioar: Darion, Feng, Angelo, Eduardo, Dawn, Andromeda, Velka, Isaac, Lee, Marcus Vioar knows many of the people present so combination attacks are easy. He and Darion both have similar fighting styles and are fighting for similar reasons. He respects Angelo and Feng so he's apt to attack alongside them well. He has a past relationship with Eduardo, Dawn, Andromeda, Velka and Isaac so there's implied potential there. Finally, he has a similar fighting style to Lee and Marcus allowing for interesting combinations. Forsetti: Kurollo, Lee, Mercury, Diesis, Aria Forsetti's relationship for Kurollo lets he and she do some combo attacks. Foretti has had interaction with Lee and Mercury as well allowing some potential there. Finally, Forsetti shares a musical theme with Diesis and Aria so there's an avenue for destruction there as well. I'm actually wondering about a symphony type attack between the three of the... Yu: Jin, Aran, Brandt Yu obviously has a relationship with her mother allowing combo potential. Other than that, she hasn't had a lot of interaction with people but Aran and Brandt also wield polearms so there are options. Jin: Yu, Feng Jin's relationship with her daughter has already created combination attacks. Other than with Yu, her only significant interaction with anyone was with Feng and while it was negative, it was something. Marcus: Elektra, Vioar, Lee Marcus keeps to himself but he's at least fought alongside Elektra for a little while and they're both heavier, tanky fighters so combo attacks are likely. Other than Elektra, his only potential right now is with the other fist fighters Vioar and Lee. Elektra: Marcus, Brandt, Forsetti, Feng Like Marcus, Elektra hasn't had much interaction with other people yet. Still, she can combine her attacks with the man. She has had some interaction with Brandt and Forsetti so there's easily some potential for combination attacks there. Concerning Feng; both Elektra and he fill the "tank" niche so they can certainly do some damage on the front line. Diesis: Atlantis, Any Cloud Knight, Mercury, Forsetti, Aria Diesis naturally has some flow with the Queen of the country she serves as well as any of the Cloud Knights past, present and future. Not quite to the same level as Angelo but Diesis has been around for a lot of Mercury's development so a relationship naturally formed between the two. Finally, Forsetti and Aria both share a musical theme with Diesis so potential lies there as well. |
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| Onime No Ryu | December 24, 2015, 11:10 am Post #31 |
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I'll be your Undertaker this evening
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Because Lee's shortlived magic grimderp arc is coming to a close once the RP starts up (the plan was for him to go full-satsui-no-hado mode and have Darion fight him until all his mana is depleted, then have Angelo put a seal on him that will keep him from ever recharging his magic or whatever) I was gonna ask if I could basically re-spec a lot of his Ability Ranks, both from the magic thing and from the moves that I ended up not really using, like the Hidden Needle thing. Anybody got any ideas for moves that would actually be cool and have a point to them, and not just be "punch shit super hard?" |
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| Sin | December 24, 2015, 11:12 am Post #32 |
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Slow and steady...
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Sure thing, go ahead! ![]() You could have him go a similar route as Vioar and just hit things super hard that it disrupts the earth. He's not using magic but more along the lines of just hard-hitting manipulation. |
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| NTNP | December 24, 2015, 11:24 am Post #33 |
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So Sin, I have a somewhat radical suggestion- what if you just allowed a general "rebuild" of all the characters? I am sure that everyone after a while of observing what went well, what they never used and what they wished was different has somethings they would probably like to have changed. Maybe they wished that "boost stat by +x" that they never used could have been something else, or that "really wished I went with a supportive spell instead of "hit X with ice again" or something might be something that people would like to have fixed. Or if nothing else. maybe they learned that X stat really served no purpose, or that they could have chosen their equipment better after the original "design" of a character changed around. So what do you think Sin? Worth just letting everyone switch somethings around, do some redos and generally go with the "resubmit" route if they choose to before we start VoC2.0? |
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| Onime No Ryu | December 24, 2015, 11:40 am Post #34 |
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I'll be your Undertaker this evening
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Even though Lee doesn't have a super high strength or speed stat yet would it be okay for him to do something with Wind "hard hitting manipulation" that involves like, sound barrier stuff? He's been practicing his punches for a while based on a "I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks, but the man who has practiced 1 kick 10,000 times" kind of idea, so could he develop a "Sonic Punch" that's basically "he breaks the sound barrier with the speed of his punch to produce a shockwave" and then follow that up with other similarly themed techniques? Although that would kind of make him a copy of Aria instead of a copy of Vioar. Dammit. Anybody got some bullshit-troll-physics method that could apply elements like Fire or Lightning to his strikes somehow? Or just plain cooler ideas? All mine so far feel like they suck. |
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| Sin | December 24, 2015, 11:45 am Post #35 |
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Slow and steady...
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So long as everyone makes note of the changes they've made somewhere I can see it. |
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| Sin | December 24, 2015, 11:46 am Post #36 |
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Slow and steady...
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Just because he doesn't want the angsty dark magic stuff doesn't mean he can't use magic in some other way. Magically augmented attacks are fine and dandy and it'll give him more oomph later on down the line when characters are more powerful. |
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| NTNP | December 24, 2015, 11:51 am Post #37 |
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Well, we could always go with lightning. Have it infuse his body with electrical energy, allowing him to release "paralyzing" strikes or the like. However, I would suggest going with "non-elemental" routes instead. Have him develop abilities that let him perform abilities that he normally wouldn't be able to. Go with utility rather than "I hit X harder" for those options. And if I might suggestion, don't go with the stat boosting moves. They didn't seem to do much good for you last time around. |
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| Onime No Ryu | December 24, 2015, 11:51 am Post #38 |
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I'll be your Undertaker this evening
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Well the whole thing behind all the magic and such in the first place with Lee is that he felt like he was useless and lame after seeing how everyone else fought with both magic and weaponry, and wanted a fix-it-quick scheme that would make him "cool." Because he was depressed at the time--and is still emotionally unstable at the moment, being a teenager in a warzone--and Angelo was all "emotions fuel magic," then Lee's "natural" magic was dark type. Not only does he not wanna mess around with that, he's also kind of come to the realization that he should just work on himself, and develop his own skills, instead of trying to be like everyone else. But I don't know how to make basic martial arts interesting in a world full of magic and monsters. |
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| NTNP | December 24, 2015, 11:52 am Post #39 |
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Admin
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So from an official source, would you mind posting how much gold everyone should have, how many abilities/ability ranks along with starting stats and stats gained thus far? Just to make sure that everyone is on the same page for what to build for? |
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| Onime No Ryu | December 24, 2015, 11:53 am Post #40 |
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I'll be your Undertaker this evening
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Hidden Needle was meant to be a kind of pressure point paralysis strike, but I noticed that it never got used because there wasn't any point to it in fodder battles, and most boss level enemies would have the ability to dodge or resist the debuff to the point where it was practically useless too. What kind of utilities are you talking about? Something movement related? Doesn't seem to have much point to it when, aside from moving on the battlefield, there aren't any limits to doing things like backflips or wall runs or whatever. |
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| Sin | December 24, 2015, 12:08 pm Post #41 |
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Slow and steady...
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Absolutely not. XD If they take a point away from something they add it somewhere else. It's just number crunching for them but I'd need to go all the way back through the RP. Gold shouldn't even be a factor since it was only used for buying equipment and changing that isn't necessary. |
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| NTNP | December 24, 2015, 12:09 pm Post #42 |
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Well let's talk about things people can't usually do: Improve survival and endurance when faced against more dangerous enemies and an improved ability to block/deflect named attackers abilities. You said before, status effects really didn't do much against named attackers, so I would rid Lee of those skills. Additionally, stat boosting rarely mattered- since for the most part there weren't many required "Have X or suffer" situations. So let's talk about some impressive things you could do with these abilities. 1. Maybe something vaguely ninja-ish. Have Lee develop the ability to "attach" himself to walls, walk on water etc. You know, do the things associated with being a super martial speedster type. 2. Something that would let him more effectively "block/defend" against major moves. Something like being able to spin around, negating ranged attacks automatically. Or take on a stance that lets him block major martial moves. 3. I would also advocate something that lets Lee negate magical effects. It would fit SOOOO well with Angelo sealing off all his magic, creating a "pseudo" magic negation effect. Maybe he could like focus on the seal, improving it's power and making it where he dampened the magical power of those around him by 1 rank or something... always an option. 4. Keeping with the magical negating effects and martial capabilities, maybe you should have him gain the ability to compel a duel? One on one, no items, no magic- final destination only style duel? |
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| Sin | December 24, 2015, 12:19 pm Post #43 |
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Slow and steady...
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Careful with the removal of stat-boosting abilities, just saying. They might come in handy. |
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| Onime No Ryu | December 24, 2015, 12:33 pm Post #44 |
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I'll be your Undertaker this evening
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1. Maybe something vaguely ninja-ish. Have Lee develop the ability to "attach" himself to walls, walk on water etc. You know, do the things associated with being a super martial speedster type. Don't really know how that could help take down an enemy though. I mean, despite the stats we're still pretty much using an honor system. An enemy always gets a chance to respond, auto-hits and auto-kills aren't a thing, so no matter how "unavoidable" you can make an attack by saying "I attack from behind, from above, from under the water" or whatever, it doesn't really seem to matter. And we haven't been fighting indoors or with a lot of environmental obstacles, so there's not a lot of stuff for Lee to even use something like that on. 2. Something that would let him more effectively "block/defend" against major moves. Something like being able to spin around, negating ranged attacks automatically. Or take on a stance that lets him block major martial moves. This one might actually work pretty well. I'd need to iron out more details with Sin though cause otherwise it'd be something I'd be using all the time to try and negate damage all the time. 3. I would also advocate something that lets Lee negate magical effects. It would fit SOOOO well with Angelo sealing off all his magic, creating a "pseudo" magic negation effect. Maybe he could like focus on the seal, improving it's power and making it where he dampened the magical power of those around him by 1 rank or something... always an option. I mean, it kinda makes sense, like how a vacuum that is empty of air draws it in...but it's also kinda broken? Sin what's your take? 4. Keeping with the magical negating effects and martial capabilities, maybe you should have him gain the ability to compel a duel? One on one, no items, no magic- final destination only style duel? Forcing that kind of thing with an ability seems like it'd be kind of lame. In order for RP fights to be more one on one and less "let's gangrape this enemy!" I think that's something the storyteller has to handle. Using something to force the situation unnaturally makes it less fun for those involved. |
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| Person B | December 30, 2015, 4:21 am Post #45 |
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Reading this in bed on my phone as usual... You should give Lee the No Second Strike thing you were on about way before the RP started. Don't remember his name, but you said he was an inspiration for Lee wasn't he? Other than that, maybe some dragon-themed strikes to go with how he's supposed to be the son of the Celestial Dragon? Have Lee As for your supposed grimderp age for Lee, hey! At least it ends up being a sort of subversion! "Reject easy power for the hard work that he's always had" or something. Maybe you could even have him undo that magic seal later on in the RP after Lee's got a hold of himself. And, well, if not then at least you can say it got me thinking about something I could do in the future ![]() Oh, or some sort of buff that's named after those meditations that Lee does so often. Rereading the RP, I've seen him mention it when he unlocked his ??? Magic and when he was discussing meditation to Angelo and Amaterasu on the cart ride to the caverns. Maybe also give him the flash step you see in anime a lot? Soru, from One Piece, sticks out in my head. As for Ritzea and Lee, I could totally see them doing that. Maybe even having Lee hold the barrier in his hands and charging at the Ebonscourge, sweeping them in and then blasting them off with the barrier. Sort of like Xenon's Return to Sender, but more magic-y and battering ram-y. Though, I could see Darion and Lee working together too. Especially since Lee trusts Darion so much and Darion's got a similar weapon. Could have something along the lines of Darion firing off a Jet Stream at Lee charging at the enemy, shaping it to be sort of a water serpent dragon just by Lee's willpower alone. I dunno, just trying to draw connections to Lee and Dragons, haha. Maybe you should make Lee's animal motif a tiger, contrast the dragon that his father is? As for similar weapons or fighting styles being on the table, I... Don't actually know who would be similar to Volke. I always envisioned him as the rogue archetype, but trying to be a fighter. Don't think any other character uses a dagger, so if we go back to his rapier roots, theoretically I'd have Eduardo (haven't seen him use his sword often though) and... I think one of the Cloud Knights? Ermys would have been ideal, but I don't think Garm is returning. There's also Kuro, sort of similar archetypes, and I guess Jason? I dunno, maybe Volke could stop getting his ass handed to him and start getting good enough to be a Cloud Knight, hah! As for Ritzea, I'd find it highly ironic if she gets to work a combination attack with Angelo. They've basically got the same idea, magic with a secondary sword, marking an opponent with a seal, all that sort of things. They also really hate each other, of course! But other than that, I can see Ritzea working magic with other people around her: Sera and Amaterasu are the mages she's close with, but she could work her magic with Kilroy (if Choco returns with Kilroy) and Declan, actually. And I do actually have plans for Ritzea to have a Unison Arte with [redacted]. |
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| NTNP | January 2, 2016, 11:36 am Post #46 |
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For the record, I replaced a couple of Angelo's moves- nothing major just something I was thinking would work a little better since so far Dormina (sleep spell) has been nearly useless and I felt like combining "does damage constantly" and "marks the enemy for a special move" felt a little overpowered for a while now- not that Angelo's ability to basically become two people wasn't already enough for that. So with that being said, I exchanged: Mark of Hunted: 1(+6): After taking a few seconds to prepare, Angelo can unleash a surge of dark energy through the immediate area. The energy will zap back and forth between shadows and cover until contact is made with the target.This attack results in low damage, comparable to a melee attack and leaves the target "marked" for the remainder of the encounter. for Sigil of the House Othello: 1(+6): After taking a few seconds to prepare, Angelo can unleash a surge of dark energy through the immediate area. A large glyph appears in the center, expanding outwards from the prepared location until it envelopes everything within in a purple light. Any individual within that space becomes "marked" with a shadow symbol of house Othello, which can be used for other techniques. and [*]Dormina: 1(+6): As a spell, Angelo is capable of casting a simple but effective sleeping spell, causing the target to instantly lose consciousness and become an open target for the following attack. While more effective as an ambush tactic, it can be used in combat against weaker or unwary foes. for [*]Shadow Stalker: 1(+6): After taking a few seconds to prepare, Angelo can unleash a surge of dark energy through the immediate area. The energy will zap back and forth between shadows and cover until contact is made with the target. Upon reaching the target, the shadow will come to life and cause dark damage to that target- often through the usage of large spikes, explosions or other effects. Nothing too big exchange wise- basically I made a copy of Mercury's marking ability it's own move since before it felt a little unfair to do both the highest damage with that trick AND get a combo built in at lv.1. The other one, well I wanted to keep the blastery part so I split it off into it's own trick. That OK with you Sin? |
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| Sin | January 2, 2016, 11:48 am Post #47 |
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Slow and steady...
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Looks fine to me. Good stuff!
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| Person A | January 2, 2016, 10:02 pm Post #48 |
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Best to sleep on it.
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Double checked most of the characters in Veil, and Darion, Eduardo, and Edited by Person A, January 2, 2016, 10:24 pm.
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![]() Mover, Shaker, Brute and Breaker. Master, Tinker, Blaster and Thinker, Striker, Changer, Trump and Stranger. Worm: Power Classifications
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| Primera Espada Yggdra | January 2, 2016, 10:34 pm Post #49 |
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The Kitty Cat, Mew!~
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Huh... I thought I did add it. Thanks for notifying, Persona. |
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| Onime No Ryu | January 3, 2016, 2:45 pm Post #50 |
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I'll be your Undertaker this evening
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Here's what Lee's currently got going on, along with the changes I'd like to make. First the current set up: Current Abilities So obviously, the dark magic thing is going to be going away. That's 2 Skill Ranks. Rising Fierce Tiger, while cool in my head, is probably not actually worth much. It's just a basic combo. Sure it has a "it gets stronger if all three hits land" thing, but there are two other reasons it's just kinda dumb at this point: A) ANY kind of combo attack is stronger if all the hits land, and B) I know Sin doesn't really like percentages because there's no reason to keep ranking them up if the percentage gives you a bigger number anyway. And, as she and I discovered at one point--I think we were talking about Dai Xin's potential move set--percentages give crazy high results compared to the simple +1 to STR type stuff. So I'll go ahead and remove it, giving back 2 more Skill Ranks. Hidden Needle just doesn't seem as much to be Lee's style, plus it's the kind of thing that'd only be useful on a boss. If I scrap it that's 1 Rank back. Lee has shit Charisma and intimidating/debuffing an enemy isn't really his thing. Kiai gets scrapped too for another 1 Rank. Now, Iron Will I am not sure about. I feel like it's pretty useless, given that I think Lee used it a total of twice, maybe not even that much, but at the same time I can see some kind of potential situation where Lee HAS to take a hit against a much stronger enemy, and in that case it could conceivably be useful. What do you guys think, should I scrap it too? If I keep Iron Will, I still have 6 Rank points to respec something with. If I scrap it too, that just gives me 7. Here's the basic idea of what I was going to do for the new move, along with some questions regarding it: Green Dragon Wave: X Lee uses the air currents created and gathered by his high speed, flowing martial arts attacks to generate an intense blast of wind to blow opponents away. I was going to add the following pros and cons to the move to try and minmax it a little bit, since I know that magic is heavily favored over melee but I just wanna be a cool martial arts punchy guy: + Can not be used "cold turkey," Lee must have used at least two "normal attacks" within the previous turn before this ability can be used. +For every SUCCESSFUL attack where Lee lands two or more hits on an enemy (a combination of some kind) in the turns before its use, this ability gains +1 Damage (I assume it draws from Strength, since it's like Vioar's earth manipulation.) Reset the counter when Lee uses this ability or when he engages another enemy. +As a move based on physical martial arts, by overexerting himself and spending an extra stamina point, Lee could add another +1 Damage to the attack. +If, after fulfilling the two normal attacks in a turn, then during the enemy's turn they attack Lee and he is able to successfully "redirect" it, when he activates the ability the added "flow" from the enemy's attack adds +1 Damage to the ability. Now, I'm thinking that at "Rank 1," the "cold turkey" and "Combo Boost" conditions could already be set, just as part of what the move basically is. Can I also put the other conditions on it at Rank 1, or do I need to add those by spending ranks? Originally I intended the Rank increases to increase the +1 Damage bonuses to +3 and such as that. I'd like to figure out some way of doing it so that, as I pump ranks into it, it becomes a kind of finishing move that Lee would have to set up over time and use a lot of his stamina for, but would in return become something very powerful to make up for the lack of versatility and Lee's status as a melee fighter. |
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