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Would you use this system?
Yes, I would use it and enjoy it! 3 (25%)
Yes, I would use it if I had to. 4 (33.3%)
Maybe, if you fleshed it out more. 2 (16.7%)
I need more info to make a decision. 1 (8.3%)
Maybe, if you toned it down some. 1 (8.3%)
No, I would not use it, but I don't dislike it. 0 (0%)
No, I would not use it and it sounds dumb. 1 (8.3%)
Total Votes: 12
Now that you've seen the system in action and its flaws, what do you think?
I would still use this system, and still enjoy it! 0 (0%)
I would still use this system if I had to. 5 (55.6%)
This system needs to be fleshed out or made more complex in order to work--add more stats, etc. 2 (22.2%)
This system needs to be toned down a lot in order to work -- remove or consolidate stats, etc. 0 (0%)
No, I would not use this system, but I don't dislike it. 0 (0%)
No, I would not use this system, but I WOULD use generalized stats the way Sin's RPs do. 1 (11.1%)
No, I would not use this system and I hate stats! 1 (11.1%)
Total Votes: 9
A Dice Based Roleplay; Would you be willing to use this system?
Topic Started: September 1, 2013, 4:23 pm (1,930 Views)
Onime No Ryu
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I'll be your Undertaker this evening
I've been toying around with some RP ideas, but I don't want to be an RP admin because I feel like I have a lot more fun as a plain player. But I'd still like to throw my ideas around and see if other people can have fun with them, so I tinkered a bit and came up with this, based on the new dice rolling system Yarott was talking about the other day.

This is a system we could use for an RP that might help make things a little more self-sufficient--the players wouldn't have to wait for the admin to do a lot of stuff, because they would be able to do it themselves. There are three key parts to this system:


  • Stats
  • Dice
  • Basic Math


Obviously the first thing to jump to everyone's minds is DnD, but I don't think it'll end up being that complicated. Sin's RPs have shown us that stats can be very helpful to have in an RP, and that they're a good way of motivating players--everyone likes to be a strong character, and having high stats to represent that and receiving a level up as an award after you beat a boss is a great motivator. So let's say we start out with stats, and say that for every, oh, five points you have in a stat, you get a Modifier for your dice rolls.

The dice rolling code is right up there on the right side of the Full Reply screen, and it allows you to choose the NUMBER of dice, the number of SIDES the dice has, and even add in your bonus. For example:

Code:
 
[result]10&7,1d10,3,10&1d10+3[/result]
would come out like this: [result]8&5,1d10,3,8&1d10+3[/result]

Obviously a 1d10 just means that the dice has 10 sides, thus you can get a number anywhere between 1 and 10, such as 7 or 9. We probably wouldn't use anything higher than a d20 for the majority of interactions in this system. And Basic Math just means adding in your bonuses and modifiers and whatnot to your rolls. Most of that stuff probably won't even get into the double digits when you're adding it up, so it's not like it'll be hard or anything considering most of us passed first grade the first go-around I'm sure.

So let's have an example of a battle using this system.

Character A:
Strength 10 (+2)
Intelligence 4
Dexterity 15 (+3)
Vitality 9 (+1)

Character B
Strength 13 (+2)
Intelligence 15 (+3)
Dexterity 5 (+1)
Vitality 7 (+1)

Character A attacks Character B.
Character B needs to move as fast as or faster than Character A to dodge his attack, according to simple logic. So he rolls for Dexterity. Now, keep in mind that rolling doesn't show up on a post preview, so I'll just select a number at random.
Character B rolls 14. Plus his 1 bonus, that's equal to Character A's attack. He dodges and recieves zero damage.

Character B attacks Character A.
Character A rolls for dodge and gets a 1. Even with his bonus that's not enough, so he gets hit.
Character B's weapon does, let's say, 1d6 worth of damage on its own, plus his strength modifier. So something like 4+2, 6.
Character A loses 6 Vitality, which is really close to his base 9, so he'll be in trouble in the next few rounds.

It might take a little adjusting to because the stats won't work the same way they do in Sin's RPs although with her permission I might steal a few of her stuffs to use with this system. For instance, you might have noticed that the bonuses in parentheses aren't added to the stat bases. That's because these are the roll bonuses, not stat bonuses. Obviously we'll need a way to display that, and we'll get it worked out in this topic hopefully.

What do you guys think? Would you use a system like this and play in an RP that used it? Any questions, comments, critiques, concerns, etc?
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HTD
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Halogen
I don't like this style of RP.
The stats and dice makes it feel very over complicated.
I understand the want for more precision when dealing with character power and whatnot, but it just doesn't sit right with me.
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Onime No Ryu
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I'll be your Undertaker this evening
HTD
September 1, 2013, 4:49 pm
I don't like this style of RP.
The stats and dice makes it feel very over complicated.
I understand the want for more precision when dealing with character power and whatnot, but it just doesn't sit right with me.
I can see how things could feel overwhelming, with all the "first I gotta get this number then I gotta add this and then I gotta count my bonuses," and stuff like that, so I'm aiming to condense it and make things a little easier on the players. But I think it bears mentioning that, when the goal is to take a lot of work off the admin, it means that players have to do a little work as part of a trade off. Whether that work is worth it or not is up to you guys to decide for yourselves individually.

This time it's not so much a question of precision, but a question of "how much automation can I include in this RP so that I don't have to work as much as an admin?" This is because I always feel overwhelmed whenever I try to admin an RP, and we as a community have a bad habit of hand holding that needs to be broken down. This is just my own suggestion for that.

Thanks for your feedback, and I hope you'll consider joining future RPs even if they're made with a system like this or similar to it.
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HTD
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Halogen
It's not an issue of overwhelming. It's an issue of it no longer would feel like an RP to me.
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Perascamin
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A Legendary Ocean
There would have to be more stats in order for this sort of system to work in the first place, in my honest opinion. The basic VotM stats are undefined, as in to how powerful they make a character, and everyone's definition of just how effective they are are different. For example; I might believe that someone with an extra point of dexterity is incapable of running circles around another character with one less point in dexterity than aforementioned character. It'd have to be more like +5 to gain an edge over an opponent and +20 for utter dominance.

But you've already covered this.

Moving on, I just want to throw this out there, but, I believe that the most effective stat system we've ever used in an RP is the very one that NTNP used for End of the Silver Age: 811. Yes, it was almost a direct copy from Fire Emblem itself, but damn was it useful. The only bad thing about it was the fact that everyone wanted to make characters who only focused on two specific stats so that they were incapable of taking damage or able to OHKO enemy units--which made for an uneven battlefield created by NT to accommodate damage for units like Kaze's unbreakable wall, which, quite bluntly, made other characters get straight up destroyed.

However, it might be worth noting that NT's old system could be used in conjunction with the dice system you've described. In order to calculate WHICH STATS LEVEL upon a character's growth, or to change the system up a lot by using it to determine a percentage for dodge/critical rates. I doubt many people would take too kindly to being unable to control the growth of their own characters, so using it for stat growth would probably be out of the question.

And, really, all things considered, it was a very simple system using VERY basic math. Speed x 2 + Luck determined a character's dodge rate, Strength/Magic + Weapon damage determined damage dealt, and Skill x 4 + weapon hit was a PC's hit chance. If this system were ever implored again, I'd be all for using the dice system to calculate critical hits, but still taking dodge chance rather than another stat to effect their chance of hitting. And, I'd also describe critical hits as Damage x2 rather than x3.

Another change I'd make would include the doubling system. Instead of needing +3 speed to double attacks, I'd say it required +8 to actually attack twice. In one round. With this stat system, there could also be a removal of classes entirely, allowing PC's for more of a freelance type of feeling in their character's play styles, rather than being restricted to a specific tree.
In War; Victory. In Peace; Vigilance. In Death; Sacrifice.

Dawn Eros (hot mama):
Spoiler: click to toggle

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Kazemitsu
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Assassin
Well I've been playing dnd every weekend lately so I have a good idea on various stats now. So a good question is what is giving the bonus to the stats, is there a base number for stats like ancient dnd games (which is 8 plus whatever stat points you receive), are there skills to go with these stats? Honestly I think you need to define things a bit more before really suggesting a stat system based on dice.

An example would be using an array. The "elite" array for dnd is 18 16 16 14 12 10. Another way of deciding stats was rolling 4d6, rerolling all 1's and 2's while keeping the highest numbers while removing the lowest number. (allowing 18 to be highest and 9 to be lowest)
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Onime No Ryu
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I'll be your Undertaker this evening
Perascamin
September 1, 2013, 5:43 pm
There would have to be more stats in order for this sort of system to work in the first place, in my honest opinion. The basic VotM stats are undefined, as in to how powerful they make a character, and everyone's definition of just how effective they are are different. For example; I might believe that someone with an extra point of dexterity is incapable of running circles around another character with one less point in dexterity than aforementioned character. It'd have to be more like +5 to gain an edge over an opponent and +20 for utter dominance.

But you've already covered this.

Moving on, I just want to throw this out there, but, I believe that the most effective stat system we've ever used in an RP is the very one that NTNP used for End of the Silver Age: 811. Yes, it was almost a direct copy from Fire Emblem itself, but damn was it useful. The only bad thing about it was the fact that everyone wanted to make characters who only focused on two specific stats so that they were incapable of taking damage or able to OHKO enemy units--which made for an uneven battlefield created by NT to accommodate damage for units like Kaze's unbreakable wall, which, quite bluntly, made other characters get straight up destroyed.

However, it might be worth noting that NT's old system could be used in conjunction with the dice system you've described. In order to calculate WHICH STATS LEVEL upon a character's growth, or to change the system up a lot by using it to determine a percentage for dodge/critical rates. I doubt many people would take too kindly to being unable to control the growth of their own characters, so using it for stat growth would probably be out of the question.

And, really, all things considered, it was a very simple system using VERY basic math. Speed x 2 + Luck determined a character's dodge rate, Strength/Magic + Weapon damage determined damage dealt, and Skill x 4 + weapon hit was a PC's hit chance. If this system were ever implored again, I'd be all for using the dice system to calculate critical hits, but still taking dodge chance rather than another stat to effect their chance of hitting. And, I'd also describe critical hits as Damage x2 rather than x3.

Another change I'd make would include the doubling system. Instead of needing +3 speed to double attacks, I'd say it required +8 to actually attack twice. In one round. With this stat system, there could also be a removal of classes entirely, allowing PC's for more of a freelance type of feeling in their character's play styles, rather than being restricted to a specific tree.
What other stats do you think would need to be added? I was basically going to steal VotM's if Sin would let me and alter their definitions. What I've got so far is:

Strength - Gives bonuses to physical attacks and defense against physical attacks
Dexterity - Gives bonuses to dodging and movement
Intelligence - Gives bonuses to magic attacks and defense against magical attacks
Vitality - Gives health points and bonuses to "saves" against things like poison, killing blows, etc

What else should be added?

We'd talk about how effective stats would be before the system was actually implemented, so that we had a standard that the majority could be happy with.

I actually thought EoSA's system was a little bit complicated, because NTNP had to do pretty much everything for us. With this system I'm aiming to put everything in the players' hands, using the ability to see the settings of the Roll code (if you click on the number I rolled earlier, you can see what I entered into the code) and maybe having a co-GM monitor posts to make sure people aren't editting to refresh their rolls.

I agree using it for stat growth is out of the question. People should be able to customize their growth.

There's another thing I'd like to point out. You mentioned people trying to take advantage of the system and because of it there were enemy characters that HAD to have near-overpowered stats to get past one minmaxer, and as a result people who tried to play more fairly got destroyed. This is more a problem with site mentality than it is with the systems themselves, and to fix it there are only two things I can propose:


  • People stop trying to be TEH BEST EVAR at everything and stop trying to outcool one another
  • Characters are subject to strict judgement by GMs and co-GMs who say "look, this guy is too much of a tryhard" and players will have to make changes to be subjected.


Other than that there's not much we can do, so I'd like to ask those of you who are interested in this system to PLEASE not make characters who are total tryhards trying to be the best at everything.
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Onime No Ryu
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I'll be your Undertaker this evening
Kazemitsu
September 1, 2013, 5:52 pm
Well I've been playing dnd every weekend lately so I have a good idea on various stats now. So a good question is what is giving the bonus to the stats, is there a base number for stats like ancient dnd games (which is 8 plus whatever stat points you receive), are there skills to go with these stats? Honestly I think you need to define things a bit more before really suggesting a stat system based on dice.

An example would be using an array. The "elite" array for dnd is 18 16 16 14 12 10. Another way of deciding stats was rolling 4d6, rerolling all 1's and 2's while keeping the highest numbers while removing the lowest number. (allowing 18 to be highest and 9 to be lowest)
My basic idea is that when you start the game, you have X number of points to spread out among your stats.

For every Y number of points IN a certain stat, you get 1 Modifier Bonus. So if Strength is (Y*2), you get +2 to all rolls that draw from the Strength stat.

But to prevent characters who aren't quite at the +2 point from being the same as characters at the +1 point even if they have a few more points in Strength, there will be things like stat requirements for weapons, puzzles, area progression, etc. And in non-combat situations or in situations where all parties have agreed to do so, the stats can be used for "in general" estimations too, the same way they're used in Sin's RPs.

I'm working out an exact definition of the system as I go along, and your feedback helps with that.

Thanks to both Kaze and Peras for their feedback, and I hope you'll consider joining the RP I'm thinking of making in the future using this system.
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Kazemitsu
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Assassin
Ah, your system is kinda the same as the dnd system. Except for every 2 points above 10 you get a +1 modifier. Like say you have 15, it's a +2 modifier. (Every 4 levels you get an extra stat point to even this out). This also works in reverse, every 2 below 10 you get a -1 (with the minimum stat being 3) But I am curious as to how this system will be completely explained in the end.
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Perascamin
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A Legendary Ocean
Hm. I'll share with you my idea of the perfect system.
In War; Victory. In Peace; Vigilance. In Death; Sacrifice.

Dawn Eros (hot mama):
Spoiler: click to toggle

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NTNP
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Admin
Onime No Ryu
September 1, 2013, 6:17 pm
Perascamin
September 1, 2013, 5:43 pm
There would have to be more stats in order for this sort of system to work in the first place, in my honest opinion. The basic VotM stats are undefined, as in to how powerful they make a character, and everyone's definition of just how effective they are are different. For example; I might believe that someone with an extra point of dexterity is incapable of running circles around another character with one less point in dexterity than aforementioned character. It'd have to be more like +5 to gain an edge over an opponent and +20 for utter dominance.

But you've already covered this.

Moving on, I just want to throw this out there, but, I believe that the most effective stat system we've ever used in an RP is the very one that NTNP used for End of the Silver Age: 811. Yes, it was almost a direct copy from Fire Emblem itself, but damn was it useful. The only bad thing about it was the fact that everyone wanted to make characters who only focused on two specific stats so that they were incapable of taking damage or able to OHKO enemy units--which made for an uneven battlefield created by NT to accommodate damage for units like Kaze's unbreakable wall, which, quite bluntly, made other characters get straight up destroyed.

However, it might be worth noting that NT's old system could be used in conjunction with the dice system you've described. In order to calculate WHICH STATS LEVEL upon a character's growth, or to change the system up a lot by using it to determine a percentage for dodge/critical rates. I doubt many people would take too kindly to being unable to control the growth of their own characters, so using it for stat growth would probably be out of the question.

And, really, all things considered, it was a very simple system using VERY basic math. Speed x 2 + Luck determined a character's dodge rate, Strength/Magic + Weapon damage determined damage dealt, and Skill x 4 + weapon hit was a PC's hit chance. If this system were ever implored again, I'd be all for using the dice system to calculate critical hits, but still taking dodge chance rather than another stat to effect their chance of hitting. And, I'd also describe critical hits as Damage x2 rather than x3.

Another change I'd make would include the doubling system. Instead of needing +3 speed to double attacks, I'd say it required +8 to actually attack twice. In one round. With this stat system, there could also be a removal of classes entirely, allowing PC's for more of a freelance type of feeling in their character's play styles, rather than being restricted to a specific tree.
What other stats do you think would need to be added? I was basically going to steal VotM's if Sin would let me and alter their definitions. What I've got so far is:

Strength - Gives bonuses to physical attacks and defense against physical attacks
Dexterity - Gives bonuses to dodging and movement
Intelligence - Gives bonuses to magic attacks and defense against magical attacks
Vitality - Gives health points and bonuses to "saves" against things like poison, killing blows, etc

What else should be added?

We'd talk about how effective stats would be before the system was actually implemented, so that we had a standard that the majority could be happy with.

I actually thought EoSA's system was a little bit complicated, because NTNP had to do pretty much everything for us. With this system I'm aiming to put everything in the players' hands, using the ability to see the settings of the Roll code (if you click on the number I rolled earlier, you can see what I entered into the code) and maybe having a co-GM monitor posts to make sure people aren't editting to refresh their rolls.

I agree using it for stat growth is out of the question. People should be able to customize their growth.

There's another thing I'd like to point out. You mentioned people trying to take advantage of the system and because of it there were enemy characters that HAD to have near-overpowered stats to get past one minmaxer, and as a result people who tried to play more fairly got destroyed. This is more a problem with site mentality than it is with the systems themselves, and to fix it there are only two things I can propose:


  • People stop trying to be TEH BEST EVAR at everything and stop trying to outcool one another
  • Characters are subject to strict judgement by GMs and co-GMs who say "look, this guy is too much of a tryhard" and players will have to make changes to be subjected.


Other than that there's not much we can do, so I'd like to ask those of you who are interested in this system to PLEASE not make characters who are total tryhards trying to be the best at everything.
Firstly, I support this sort of an idea immensely since it is basically how I envision running most of my more combat related RPs. With that being said, there are a couple of things said here that are either incorrect, misrepresentation or things that I have fixed over time.

Peras is right that you require a few more stats than 4 to make something like this work. My lowest number ever to function successfully was 6 in order to cover the various "aspects" of a character and get things to make sense. If you want I can share them (or any previous system) without any real difficulty. Secondly, when using this system PLEASE go through a beta test first! That was the number one thing I learned via End of the Silver Age was that I needed people to try out my systems with the explicit goal of cracking it wide open. Hell ask BO, Winters, Peras, Oni or... well, yeah... they've done a lot to test out my systems and find the holes in them. Creating a hybridization of the "straight stat to effect" + a dice roll would be exceptionally simple to do.

Moving on, I chose to do most of the calculations for you guys so you could focus on the 'action' initially. Additionally, I created an excel document allowing me to instantly just select the character attack versus the character defending, select a weapon and armor, and go to town by the end where all I had to do was create a written synopsis. Although with that being said as time advanced I made it where even something like that was less required because I started taking away the 'formula' end and making it just part of the character creation process which seemed to help a lot. Then the only hand holding was during the building phase rather than during the narrative itself.

Lastly, Onime if you want I have a number of systems available for you to look at and see if you would like to implement any part of them. Heck, half of them have already been beta tested but I didn't have any time or interest in using them for whatever reason.
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Onime No Ryu
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I'll be your Undertaker this evening
NTNP
September 2, 2013, 4:02 pm
Onime No Ryu
September 1, 2013, 6:17 pm
Perascamin
September 1, 2013, 5:43 pm
There would have to be more stats in order for this sort of system to work in the first place, in my honest opinion. The basic VotM stats are undefined, as in to how powerful they make a character, and everyone's definition of just how effective they are are different. For example; I might believe that someone with an extra point of dexterity is incapable of running circles around another character with one less point in dexterity than aforementioned character. It'd have to be more like +5 to gain an edge over an opponent and +20 for utter dominance.

But you've already covered this.

Moving on, I just want to throw this out there, but, I believe that the most effective stat system we've ever used in an RP is the very one that NTNP used for End of the Silver Age: 811. Yes, it was almost a direct copy from Fire Emblem itself, but damn was it useful. The only bad thing about it was the fact that everyone wanted to make characters who only focused on two specific stats so that they were incapable of taking damage or able to OHKO enemy units--which made for an uneven battlefield created by NT to accommodate damage for units like Kaze's unbreakable wall, which, quite bluntly, made other characters get straight up destroyed.

However, it might be worth noting that NT's old system could be used in conjunction with the dice system you've described. In order to calculate WHICH STATS LEVEL upon a character's growth, or to change the system up a lot by using it to determine a percentage for dodge/critical rates. I doubt many people would take too kindly to being unable to control the growth of their own characters, so using it for stat growth would probably be out of the question.

And, really, all things considered, it was a very simple system using VERY basic math. Speed x 2 + Luck determined a character's dodge rate, Strength/Magic + Weapon damage determined damage dealt, and Skill x 4 + weapon hit was a PC's hit chance. If this system were ever implored again, I'd be all for using the dice system to calculate critical hits, but still taking dodge chance rather than another stat to effect their chance of hitting. And, I'd also describe critical hits as Damage x2 rather than x3.

Another change I'd make would include the doubling system. Instead of needing +3 speed to double attacks, I'd say it required +8 to actually attack twice. In one round. With this stat system, there could also be a removal of classes entirely, allowing PC's for more of a freelance type of feeling in their character's play styles, rather than being restricted to a specific tree.
What other stats do you think would need to be added? I was basically going to steal VotM's if Sin would let me and alter their definitions. What I've got so far is:

Strength - Gives bonuses to physical attacks and defense against physical attacks
Dexterity - Gives bonuses to dodging and movement
Intelligence - Gives bonuses to magic attacks and defense against magical attacks
Vitality - Gives health points and bonuses to "saves" against things like poison, killing blows, etc

What else should be added?

We'd talk about how effective stats would be before the system was actually implemented, so that we had a standard that the majority could be happy with.

I actually thought EoSA's system was a little bit complicated, because NTNP had to do pretty much everything for us. With this system I'm aiming to put everything in the players' hands, using the ability to see the settings of the Roll code (if you click on the number I rolled earlier, you can see what I entered into the code) and maybe having a co-GM monitor posts to make sure people aren't editting to refresh their rolls.

I agree using it for stat growth is out of the question. People should be able to customize their growth.

There's another thing I'd like to point out. You mentioned people trying to take advantage of the system and because of it there were enemy characters that HAD to have near-overpowered stats to get past one minmaxer, and as a result people who tried to play more fairly got destroyed. This is more a problem with site mentality than it is with the systems themselves, and to fix it there are only two things I can propose:


  • People stop trying to be TEH BEST EVAR at everything and stop trying to outcool one another
  • Characters are subject to strict judgement by GMs and co-GMs who say "look, this guy is too much of a tryhard" and players will have to make changes to be subjected.


Other than that there's not much we can do, so I'd like to ask those of you who are interested in this system to PLEASE not make characters who are total tryhards trying to be the best at everything.
Firstly, I support this sort of an idea immensely since it is basically how I envision running most of my more combat related RPs. With that being said, there are a couple of things said here that are either incorrect, misrepresentation or things that I have fixed over time.

Peras is right that you require a few more stats than 4 to make something like this work. My lowest number ever to function successfully was 6 in order to cover the various "aspects" of a character and get things to make sense. If you want I can share them (or any previous system) without any real difficulty. Secondly, when using this system PLEASE go through a beta test first! That was the number one thing I learned via End of the Silver Age was that I needed people to try out my systems with the explicit goal of cracking it wide open. Hell ask BO, Winters, Peras, Oni or... well, yeah... they've done a lot to test out my systems and find the holes in them. Creating a hybridization of the "straight stat to effect" + a dice roll would be exceptionally simple to do.

Moving on, I chose to do most of the calculations for you guys so you could focus on the 'action' initially. Additionally, I created an excel document allowing me to instantly just select the character attack versus the character defending, select a weapon and armor, and go to town by the end where all I had to do was create a written synopsis. Although with that being said as time advanced I made it where even something like that was less required because I started taking away the 'formula' end and making it just part of the character creation process which seemed to help a lot. Then the only hand holding was during the building phase rather than during the narrative itself.

Lastly, Onime if you want I have a number of systems available for you to look at and see if you would like to implement any part of them. Heck, half of them have already been beta tested but I didn't have any time or interest in using them for whatever reason.
What are the other two stats that are needed, NTNP? And I do plan on going through a beta test, as soon as I figure out how the prototype of the system will work in full. Unfortunately I don't know how to use Excel so that one probably won't work I'm afraid. However, I'd definitely be up for looking over some of those systems, NTNP. If you could PM or even email me some of them that would be great!
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NTNP
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I personally like to apply multiple "aspects" to a single attribute in order to make it harder to justify the idea of making a single one into a "dump stat" so to speak in order to facilitate the process of making fewer breaker characters. An example from one of my most recent creations (from the Tale of the Sun and Moon) uses the following stats that are tied together:

Might: Might comes from more than muscle or spells, it is the combined essence of everything you are. Power equals power, strangely balanced isn't it? Your strength, your magical power and even your spirit come together when determining the power someone possesses. This stat is used to determine the effectiveness of skills and feats of physical prowess, endurance and disciple. It is also combined with Vitality to determine the number of abilities a character possesses initially and how many will be gained per level.

Dexterity: Very little in the world does not require a certain level of finesse and expertise. Dexterity is a measure of a character’s ability to perform well under pressure, move quickly and accurate and ensure that every strike will hit its intended spot. This stat is used to determine the effectiveness of skills and feats of agility, finesse and precision. It is also combined with Intelligence to determine the number of skills a character possesses initially and how many will be gained per level.

Wisdom: Wisdom is the measure of combined knowledge, understanding and intuition that one possesses. This stat is associated with the ability to discern truth from lies, insight from illusion and sense the flow of energy. This stat is used to determine the effectiveness of skills and feats involving great knowledge, sensing the supernatural and commanding magic in its very forms. It is also combined with Spirituality to determine the number of spells a character possesses initially and how many will be gained per level.

Vitality: Vitality is more than mere conditioning and endurance. Vitality exemplifies the body, mind and spirit working in unison to overcome challenges and endure hardships that would leave lesser men and women broken. This stat determines a character’s Health along with working together with Power to determine the number of abilities a character starts with and gains per level up.

Intelligence: Intelligence is not the knowledge to know if something is a good or bad idea, merely how to determine how effectively that act will be carried out. High intelligence usually entails the ability to make use of the least energy to perform the greatest act along with the ability to efficiently determine what the most appropriate action would be in any situation. This stat determines a character’s Stamina along with working together with Dexterity to determine the number of abilities a character starts with and gains per level up.

Spirituality: Spirituality is the ability to control the natural energies that exist within the world from the sun and the moon. All things are made from magic, either in whole or in part, and the ability to manipulate these energies is the defining aspect of one’s spirituality.

So basically on top of clear "definitions" like Power determines physical damage done or that Wisdom determines how easy it is to command spells, it also includes the ideas of how those stats influence 'battle' stats like HP, MP and Stamina. More so, I also use these stats to help determine a character's growth as well (something I have been toying with since EotSA and something that can be done relatively effectively if done correctly. Additionally I usually suggest pairing the various stats with equipment that modifies the end result like what is being done in Sin's RP as well.

While other versions of those stats can easily be implemented. You need a physical strength determinant, a magical power determinant, a physical defense determinant, a magical defense determinant, something to determine accuracy and evasion along with something to explain effectiveness. Those last two are sometimes combined, but I like to keep them separate to keep it from becoming an overwhelmingly useful stat. Also the rules of 3s tends to assist others in instantly making that connection between things they have worked on before.
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Onime No Ryu
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Hmm. I see what you mean NTNP, but I kinda think that some of those stats are redundant for the purposes I'm intending with this system. I don't know that I won't be proven completely wrong during the beta test, though, so I'll definitely keep this advice in mind. However, I think that Intelligence and Wisdom could be merged together, and if Spirituality determines how good you are at magic it could also be merged with those two, leaving you with what is basically the same as the four stats I listed earlier.

Now, here's a question for everybody: I have here a list of questions that the system will be used to determine. What other questions can you think of that this system should apply to? Are there any questions that you think should be removed? Are there any questions that aren't self explanatory?

Here's the list:


  • HOW TO ATTACK
  • HOW TO DEFEND
  • HOW TO DODGE
  • HOW TO TAKE DAMAGE
  • HOW TO SAVE AGAINST STATUS EFFECTS
  • HOW TO USE MAGIC
  • HOW TO USE PHYSICAL ABILITIES
  • HOW TO USE BUFFS/DEBUFFS
  • HOW TO USE STATUS EFFECTS
  • HOW TO GET CURRENCY/DROPS
  • HOW TO GET RANDOM ENCOUNTERS
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NTNP
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Onime No Ryu
September 2, 2013, 4:39 pm
Hmm. I see what you mean NTNP, but I kinda think that some of those stats are redundant for the purposes I'm intending with this system. I don't know that I won't be proven completely wrong during the beta test, though, so I'll definitely keep this advice in mind. However, I think that Intelligence and Wisdom could be merged together, and if Spirituality determines how good you are at magic it could also be merged with those two, leaving you with what is basically the same as the four stats I listed earlier.

Now, here's a question for everybody: I have here a list of questions that the system will be used to determine. What other questions can you think of that this system should apply to? Are there any questions that you think should be removed? Are there any questions that aren't self explanatory?

Here's the list:


  • HOW TO ATTACK
  • HOW TO DEFEND
  • HOW TO DODGE
  • HOW TO TAKE DAMAGE
  • HOW TO SAVE AGAINST STATUS EFFECTS
  • HOW TO USE MAGIC
  • HOW TO USE PHYSICAL ABILITIES
  • HOW TO USE BUFFS/DEBUFFS
  • HOW TO USE STATUS EFFECTS
  • HOW TO GET CURRENCY/DROPS
  • HOW TO GET RANDOM ENCOUNTERS
You are exactly right on the redundancies and why those stats were split, you'd be amazed what taking a 1 in one less important stat, a moderate number in something variable like dodging/hitting and having an extremely durable and magically capable character can do to screw things over balance wise. Even with an extremely conservative number of stat points (20, giving an average of 4 of 10 each) look at what you can create: Magic 8, Vitality 7, Dexterity 4, Strength 1. In the end, you have a character that sucks at physical attacks but still has awesome HP and MP, can do a lot of magical damage and unless you intend to say an 'average' unit can't hit or dodge to save his life, then this character can still have decent accuracy that can be further improved by playing the game moderately well in character. And this isn't even considering the equipment, spells, etc you can add onto it. By expanding the number of stats and tying them together, it is very hard to create min-maxers without sacrificing considerably.

To the list you provided:
[*]HOW TO ATTACK: Strength stat (or Magic stat) + Equipment + modifier + dice = #
[*]HOW TO DEFEND: Defense stat (or Resistance stat) + Equipment + modifier + dice = #
[*]HOW TO DODGE: Dexterity stat + Equipment + modifier + dice = # +/- determinant of difficulty (say between 1 and 10)
[*]HOW TO TAKE DAMAGE: Attack - Defense = Damage - HP = Remaining HP/KO status
[*]HOW TO SAVE AGAINST STATUS EFFECTS: Defense stat (or Resistance stat, depending on type) + Equipment + modifier + dice = # versus difficulty
[*]HOW TO USE MAGIC: Cost of spell - MP pool = remaining MP pool
[*]HOW TO USE PHYSICAL ABILITIES: Cost of ability - Stamina pool = remaining Stamina pool
[*]HOW TO USE BUFFS: Assuming full accuracy on target; Strength/Magic stat (depending on type of buff) divided by intensity of buff/debuff (say Lv.1 = 2, Lv.2 = 4, Lv.3 = 6, Lv.4 = 8 etc) determines how many turns it stays in effect. Additionally each turn the buff/debuff is active it should drain the Stamina/Mana of the user of the buff/debuff.
[*]HOW TO USE DEBUFFS: Accuracy (as determined via reversing Dodge, and potentially using another stat like Intelligence etc if you choose to implement it) - target's Dodge = chance to hit with debuff, then as shown above
[*]HOW TO USE STATUS EFFECTS: Accuracy (as determined via reversing Dodge, and potentially using another stat like Intelligence etc if you choose to implement it) - target's Dodge = chance to hit with debuff, then as shown above
[*]HOW TO GET CURRENCY/DROPS and HOW TO GET RANDOM ENCOUNTERS: Create a table with 4 categories. First put "difficulty" and assign the "difficulty" between "very easy" (1) and "very hard" (5). Have the player roll that first. Then move on to "type of encounter" and assign categories such as "combat focused", "skill/ability focused", "diplomacy focused", "stealth focused" and "investigation focused." Once again we roll 1-5 to see the type of challenge. Afterward, you go to Loot and roll to determine if the challenge will reward you nothing (1) to massively (5). The same is done for Currency as well. Also, try including a slight formula where the challenge level is multiplied together with the reward(s) so a Hard Challenge (4) and a Normal Loot (3) would give higher than say an Easy (2) Challenge and Normal Loot (3). Make sense?
[/list]

Moving on, I would include the following numbers to the list:

  • [*]HOW TO DETERMINE HP
    [*]HOW TO DETERMINE HOW MUCH HP IS GAINED AT LEVEL UP
    [*]HOW TO DETERMINE MP
    [*]HOW TO DETERMINE HOW MUCH MP IS GAINED AT LEVEL UP
    [*]HOW TO DETERMINE STAMINA
    [*]HOW TO DETERMINE HOW MUCH STAMINA IS GAINED AT LEVEL UP
    [*]HOW TO DETERMINE NUMBER ABILITIES GAINED AT LEVEL UP
    [*]HOW TO DETERMINE NUMBER OF SPELLS GAINED AT LEVEL UP
    [*]HOW TO DETERMINE STARTING STATS
    [*]HOW TO DETERMINE NUMBER OF STATS GAINED AT LEVEL UP
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yuna
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It would be cool to implement dice rolls to make battles more tense and more strategic, rather than having stupid miracle last minute bullshit saves with no sort of deciding factor, like "character A throws a spear aimed at Character B's head with pinpoint accuracy, but Character B slices right through it just an inch before impact, coming out unharmed".

That being said, something luck based can be completely unbalanced for some players (some people always roll a 20, and some people get punched in the face by the dice system and only get 1s). Now, this may or may not be a subjective thing and only I think about that, but this might be something you (or any GM/DM/ whatever other M there is) would want to watch for.
Edited by yuna, September 2, 2013, 6:11 pm.
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Onime No Ryu
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I think having stat requirements on equipment can help balance that out, NTNP--for instance, that guy with only 1 strength won't be able to wear a lot of armor or use strong weapons, so even though he has decent HP, someone who had health a little below his but strength above his can outtank him because they can use better armor.

Also on the questions thing, I didn't want ideas for the formulas cause I already had those myself. I meant more "does a HOW TO _____ question need to be added?"

Also, here's the completed list of formulas for those questions. I would like as much feedback on this as possible.

HOW TO ATTACK
Roll the dice associated with your weapon and add your strength modifier. This will be the initial amount of damage you would do as if your opponent had zero defense.

HOW TO DEFEND
Your armor will give you a certain defensive value. Add your Strength modifier. This value will be subtracted from the initial amount of damage the opponent would do and the remainder, if not dodged, will be subtracted from your total Vitality.

HOW TO DODGE
Roll a d20 and add your Dexterity bonus. If the total is equal to or greater than your opponent's total Dexterity, you will dodge the attack.

HOW TO TAKE DAMAGE
Subtract the number of your Armor Value--which you will get from whatever armor you are currently wearing and your strength modifier--from the number of your opponent's Attack value, which he will get from his weapon and strength modifier. The result is your Damage number. Subtract the Damage number from total Vitality, and that's how much damage you've recieved.

HOW TO SAVE AGAINST STATUS EFFECTS
Roll a d20 and add your Vitality Modifier. Weapons or spells that have status effects will have a percent chance of success, based on a multiple of 5. If your d20 roll plus your modifier is higher than the percent-chance, you will not be effected by the status effect. For example, if the success rate is 25%, 25% of 20 is 5. If your d20 roll plus your modifier is higher than the number 5, you will not be effected.

HOW TO USE MAGIC
Roll the dice associated with your spell and add your Intelligence modifier. This will be the initial amount of damage you would do as if your opponent had zero magical defense.

HOW TO DEFEND AGAINST MAGIC
Your armor will give you a certain magical defensive value. Add your intelligence modifier. This value will be subtracted from the initial amount of damage the opponent's spell would do and the remainder, if not dodged, will be subtracted from your total Vitality.

HOW TO USE PHYSICAL ABILITIES
We'll probably need to work this out differently depending on what kind of ability it is. However, since most physical abilities are just physical attacks, it may not even be necessary as we already have a formula for physical attacks.

HOW TO USE BUFFS
Roll the dice associated with the buffing spell and add your intelligence modifier. This value will become a percentage, which will then be compared to the target's stat that is being buffed. That percentage will become a number, which will be added as an Extra Modifier to their associated rolls for as long as the buff is active. Example: Character A buffs Character B's strength. Character B's strength is 20, and Character A has to roll a 1d10 and has no Intelligence modifier. He gets an 8. 8% of 20, rounded to the nearest whole number, is 2. Character B now has a Strength of 20, a Strength Modifier of +4, and an Extra Modifier of +2. So on his next attack roll, which uses Strength, he'll get to add 6 Modifier Points to his weapon's roll.

HOW TO USE STATUS EFFECTS
Weapons or spells that have status effects will have a percent chance of success, based on a multiple of 5. To avoid your Status Effects, opponents will have to roll a higher number than that percentage. For instance, if your spell has a 25% chance to inflict a status, they have to roll a d20 and get higher than the number five with their total value after adding Modifier Points.

HOW TO GET CURRENCY/DROPS
Each enemy that appears will have Currency and Drops assigned to it. These things will be listed with numbers and a Loot Dice value. Roll the Loot Dice, and the number you get will be what drop/currency amount you get.

HOW TO GET RANDOM ENCOUNTERS
Each Area of the Map will have a list of enemies that appear there. Those enemies will have numbers assigned to them. There will be three dice associated with encounters: the Horde Dice, the Enemy Dice, and the Pack Dice. The Horde Dice will determine the total number of enemies available and will cover the entire list of enemies. For instance, if there are 20 possible enemies, your Horde Dice is a d20. The Enemy Dice will cover which enemy you are facing. Again, if there are 20 possible enemies, you will roll a d20. If that d20 shows up as 12, you will look up the 12th monster on the list. Then you will roll the Pack Dice to determine how many of that enemy there are. Your Pack Dice will be different for every encounter because it will be based on the number of enemies you are facing. For instance, if your Horde Dice came up as 5, then roll a d5 for your Pack Dice. If you get three, that means that there are 3 of the 12th monster attacking you. This leaves two more empty spaces, so again roll the Enemy dice and the Pack dice until you've figured out exactly what enemy and how many of that enemy are attacking you.
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Keith
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[result]4&4,1d10,0,4&1d10[/result]
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Keith
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why the fuck cant i edit my posts what the christ

oh so i can edit this one but not the above one eh

well theres more than one way to skin an algorithm

wait [result]6&6,1d10,0,6&1d10[/result]

ADMIN NTNP: I just wondered if I could edit someone's post and see if that resulted in a change from a -6- as placed above...
Edited by NTNP, September 2, 2013, 6:19 pm.
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Keith
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LOL YOU CANT EDIT A ROLLED POST HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

[result]gay sex[/result]
Edited by Keith, September 2, 2013, 6:25 pm.
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NTNP
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So apparently the poster cannot edit their own post but an admin can still get in there and mess with it... how strange. I wonder if that applies to the admin posts too... let's find out...

[result]Howto&2,1d10,0,BreakIt&1d10[/result]
Edited by NTNP, September 2, 2013, 6:36 pm.
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Onime No Ryu
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September 2, 2013, 6:16 pm
LOL YOU CANT EDIT A ROLLED POST HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
Huh, that's actually rather helpful to keep people from cheating.

But it does bring up the issue of people making mistakes or needed to add something that they forgot and things like that.

Then again it's not like double posting is really that much of an issue around here.
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NTNP
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So admins can still get into their own posts and everyone else's posts just like usual. Maybe you could make it where if someone screwed up too badly on their post (like you know, didn't notice someone else had posted and done something that devalidated their post) that he or she could send it to the admin of that topic as a PM and get it edited in? Or for that matter just delete the post and go over it again?
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Keith
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[result]6&6,1d10,0,6&1d10[/result]

test 1
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Keith
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PFFFFHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHA SO MUCH FOR GETTING THE ALGORITHM DONT EVEN NEED TO DO THAT

[result]69&69,1d10,0,69&1d10[/result]
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Systematic made by Phaede of the SZ..