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| A Question of Story | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: February 26, 2013, 6:33 pm (1,142 Views) | |
| Onime No Ryu | February 26, 2013, 6:33 pm Post #1 |
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I'll be your Undertaker this evening
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After taking a short rest to let my thinking gears cool down, we're down to the final step before we can start this thing: the story. Obviously we know the gist of it. Our main villain has conquered the setting, destroyed the royal army and executed the King, and put down any revolutionaries with utmost haste and cruelty. But let's flesh this out a little. What kind of villain do we want? What kind of motivations does he need? What kind of underlings serve him? How did he do what he did? What does he plan to do in the future? These are just a few of the kinds of questions we should at least have in mind before we can start. Here's my idea so far: The villain started out as a researcher, who discovered how to refine the raw material Mystium into Mystspheres. He recognized the potential of his invention, but also the power that came with it. Because of the massive effect his invention had on the military and industry of the kingdom, he became very rich and powerful. At this point, for whatever reason, he graduates to villain status. Using his money and power, he gathers an army. He creates more powerful Mystspheres for himself and his soldiers. He even manages to tame monsters using the power of his spheres. And his take over begins. Obviously this is all very rough draft stuff, and this is where I turn it over to you guys. What are your ideas? |
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| Green | February 26, 2013, 7:06 pm Post #2 |
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THE Man
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Whatever happened to change him into a villain should also make him sorta paranoid and a lot crazy. Crazy villains are always interesting and great, plus it gives you a lot of space when choosing how he would act and therefore we would have the potential to turn things in a larger variety of ways. |
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| Keith | February 26, 2013, 8:18 pm Post #3 |
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Mage
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He was a Mystium miner who was killed in a mine explosion. Except, before they could bury him, he came back to life. The explosion put fragments of Mystium into his body, heart and brain included, that, over time, gave him power beyond what even the most potent of Mystspheres could give, at the cost of warping his body and mind. Over the course of a few years he notices himself becoming more intelligent, and so he quit the mining business and used what wealth he had to become a merchant. Flash forward a year and he's rolling in dosh, which he uses alongside brute force to do what you said and amass an army, get private Mystsphere researchers, get powerful spheres for his army, etc. By this point the king views him as a threat and orders an assassination, which fails. At that point he begins his war and we all know who wins. Now he's a mad king but not a psychotic foaming at the mouth mad, more of a paranoid, cold, cares-only-for-himself mad king whose every action only serves to benefit him in some way, shape or form, even if the payoff takes a while. Maybe slightly psychotic. And he keeps his body hidden from view in a suit of grand armor because his skin is discolored and has crystals growing from it and stuff. Or maybe we could take your idea and say that his early experiments involved putting raw Mystium into the bodies of research subjects, himself included, which does what I mentioned and then causes him to do what we mentioned. Edited by Keith, February 26, 2013, 8:30 pm.
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MAP OF HYRULE BESTIARY WORLD NOTES
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| Garm0099 | February 26, 2013, 8:45 pm Post #4 |
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Marksman
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If we have him be a researcher, we should totally have there be some way to find research notes. Then that could show he was either more mentally sound at one point or whatever else. That and there is a Magic card's flavor text that I really like in this situation: Spoiler: click to toggle
Edited by Garm0099, February 26, 2013, 8:45 pm.
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| Rasen | February 26, 2013, 10:32 pm Post #5 |
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So you're going for a Star Wars-type evil empire? I like that. But the villain definitely needs to have some clearer motivations, even if the players don't discover them until later. Was he looked down on by his family for choosing a strange profession? Is he an idealist who went to far, thinking his tyranny is somehow making the kingdom a better place? |
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| Onime No Ryu | February 27, 2013, 11:12 am Post #6 |
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I'll be your Undertaker this evening
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Burnt and Garm have given me an idea that also ties in well to the setting. In this RP I was planning to have dragons appear, and explain their tendency to be intelligent and long lived as a side effect of eating Mystium crystals. If the villain attempted to find a way to imitate the power of dragons, he could try refining Mystium into an edible form like ancient Chinese alchemists tried to do with gold to create their Elixir of Life. But after eating/injecting it into himself, it could have unforseen side effects that would drive him crazy as well as give him greater power. Like Green and Rasen said, though, he needs clearer motivations, and he needs to have something that justifies what he's doing. Now when I say justify, I don't mean that it makes what he does okay, I mean that it just gives him a very clear reason for his actions. I personally dislike "sympathetic" villains, but what reasons do you guys think would justify him? |
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| Rasen | February 27, 2013, 11:37 am Post #7 |
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That plot looks fun as long as you give it somewhere to go. Good stories are all about arcs, so leave room for some twists and turns, ups and downs. Villains are tricky. You don't want them to take over the world because MWUHAHAHAHAHA, but they shouldn't do bad things because their daddies didn't hug them enough, either. To get some ideas, try thinking about game/movie/TV villains you like. Hans Gruber is basically just a thief. He's charismatic enough to manipulate people, which probably taught him that exploiting people for personal gain is a good way to get ahead. By now, it's all just habit. You could also look at Heath Ledger's joker. He's a villain who's evil due to insanity, but he also follows a deranged philosophy. No one actually considers himself evil. He has to think what he's doing is right or, at least, justified. Edited by Rasen, February 27, 2013, 11:37 am.
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| NTNP | February 27, 2013, 1:19 pm Post #8 |
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Admin
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Before I give my suggestions (likely in a day or two) I would like to send Onime to this hyperlink for a villain building workshop that might help him come up with some good ideas for building a villain. I hope this might help: http://www.giantitp.com/articles/rTKEivnsYuZrh94H1Sn.html |
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| Keith | February 27, 2013, 2:56 pm Post #9 |
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Mage
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His motivation should be to cure his deformities while still retaining his power or something. He does so by seekrit plot stuff that would give away a tweest. I can PM you the idea if you want.
Edited by Keith, February 27, 2013, 6:22 pm.
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MAP OF HYRULE BESTIARY WORLD NOTES
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| Green | February 27, 2013, 6:14 pm Post #10 |
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THE Man
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Maybe he starts off a bit crazy and paranoid after his experiment-gone-wrong. He's a lot stronger at this point and knows it, but he realizes he needs to be the strongest being alive in order for him to feel safe again. Maybe he exposes himself to higher and higher doses of Mystium, trying to gain the power of a god (maybe some dragon god if you're using the dragon idea), just so he can relax and not worry about someone coming to kill him. |
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| Rasen | February 27, 2013, 6:28 pm Post #11 |
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So...he's what Doc Brown would become if he'd invented Mysterium instead of the Flux Capacitor? Seriously though, the mad paranoid scientist who lusts for power plays into exactly the fatally flawed big bad cliche Onime was trying to avoid. Edited by Rasen, February 27, 2013, 6:29 pm.
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| Green | February 27, 2013, 6:50 pm Post #12 |
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THE Man
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He doesn't lust for power, he lusts for security, and ultimate power is a means of security. Also, cliches are good, hence the reason they're used so much and are therefore cliches. We shouldn't be trying to avoid cliches, just trying to make a good story. |
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| Rasen | February 27, 2013, 7:10 pm Post #13 |
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Uh...no. Cliches are lazy writing. They're shortcuts, and you can make a good story without them. |
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| Green | February 27, 2013, 8:11 pm Post #14 |
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THE Man
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Yes, you can make a good story without them. Of course...we could also make a good story out of your ignorance. |
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| Rasen | February 27, 2013, 9:03 pm Post #15 |
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... Run that past me again? |
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| Onime No Ryu | February 28, 2013, 1:07 pm Post #16 |
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I'll be your Undertaker this evening
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Thanks NTNP, I've checked that resource out and it's a great help. Burnt, go ahead and send me your idea if you want. Green and Rasen, stop dickslapping. The comparison to alchemy that I made earlier gave me another idea. What if he's trying to discover a way to obtain eternal life? The dragons that ate Mystium developed into powerful creatures that lived for centuries. If Raw Mystium can do that, then maybe refining it can produce even more powerful effects. So we have an end goal of sorts: Immortality, Invincibility, and Power. These are the things he wants to achieve. Fear, both of death and of others, makes him want to become Immortal and Invincible. Power can also serve to make him feel more secure. But let's go deeper now. He wants to be immortal, the justification being that he fears death. He wants to be invincible, the justification being that he fears other people and is paranoid. He wants to be powerful, the justification being a natural extension of the above two. Now, what are some events that could give rise to these feelings, and some events that could intensify them? What kind of person was he before he began to experiment on himself? |
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| Keith | February 28, 2013, 7:39 pm Post #17 |
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Mage
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I still think his goal should be to cure his deformities if you go that route. And alongside it is the power route, if those are the only three to choose from. I'll maybe PM you the idea depending on how the rest of this topic goes. |
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MAP OF HYRULE BESTIARY WORLD NOTES
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| Rasen | March 1, 2013, 1:36 am Post #18 |
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I was legitimately trying to help you develop some ideas. Dunno why Green has such a hatedick on for me. |
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| Green | March 1, 2013, 3:50 am Post #19 |
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THE Man
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You're implying you're worth the effort of hating. Funny.
An event that could give rise to some of the feelings.... How about this: he was always living in fear of others as a child. He was mocked and picked on for his ideas and superior intellect, and even though the children became men/women and they became friendlier towards him and he, them, those memories remained vivid and installed a perpetual intimidation by others inside him. These feelings lead him to feel inferior to others and therefore less secure. That's something that could've happened in the past. Of course, the mysidium could draw those feelings out more, but I think it would be a good idea to have more. We don't only need one reason. Multiple reasons would be ideal I say. EDIT: Maybe combine it with Burnt's idea, using the deformities as another excuse to increase insecurity or bring out the memories more. Edited by Green, March 1, 2013, 3:52 am.
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| Shade | March 2, 2013, 3:23 pm Post #20 |
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Scout
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On Immortality Simply saying someone fears death seems a bit shallow, no? Rather than simply fearing his death, perhaps our villain fears instead the consequences of dying. For example, perhaps the villain in question has come to love his empire for whatever reason. Death then would mean separation from the fruits of his labor, and thus he'd like to prolong his life in whatever manner possible. Perhaps the villain thinks he has benefited the world around him in some way; by controlling the Mystspheres, he has put an end to an arm's race of sorts that continued to escalate as more and more people got their hands on them. Death then, in his eyes, would be a tragedy for everyone else. For whatever reason, instead of simply fearing the end of his life, the villain fears the consequences of his absence. He cannot fathom the idea of relinquishing his power to anything. If anything, he constantly desires more and more power, if only to silence his ever-present insecurities. On Invincibility So, why should our villain fear others around him? After his rise to power, he would obviously realize there would be those who didn't agree with him, but should his search for invincibility begin here? Perhaps our villain instead began to search for invincibility before he came to power. Perhaps there was a war or conflict, with Mystspheres at the very core, that made him come to think that all humans were savage, self-interested beasts, and with his knowledge of Mystspheres, he could possibly be a target of some sort. This could relate back to his desire to control Mystspheres, as he believes man has not the responsibility to use them properly without devolving into another state of war. So, believing himself to be a target of some sort, and having ample knowledge to experiment, our villain begins to grasp out for invincibility, and as he comes to think he knows best, immortality. On Power Where does power come into all of this? Obviously, in order to force his perspective on the world, the villain needs ample power. But, what is power, exactly? Is it just the knowledge of and the ability to use Mystspheres? Or is our villain a devious chess-master, playing people and politics to bring about his end-result? In either case, there needs to be something that brings about the dire circumstances of the world. Obviously, for the former, conflict would arise, and this time, the villain wins. For the latter, there would need to be a party that recognized what the villain was doing. This party would then mobilize forces against him, which would lead to yet another war. The villain wins, and his suspicious are further confirmed that mankind is self-interested and prone to war. Obviously, at this stage, there is some hypocrisy in his motives, but perhaps our villain believes he has ascended beyond humanity, and is paternalistic, in the sense that only the most totalitarian of rule will ensure peace, regarding the whole of humanity. On the Man Himself To tie all of this together, we need an image of who this man was before his rise to power. Perhaps he was a learned scholar and researcher into Mystium, whose knowledge of it all well known to several powerful parties. Here he becomes a puppet for a few such parties, until he realizes what exactly they've been using him for, and so he quits. But enough research has been performed, and Mystspheres are now mass-produced for man. Enter here a global conflict using Mystspheres. Now our villain feels responsible for what occurred, and perhaps more. Perhaps he had a brother or lover who, as a result of the war, was negatively affected in some manner. So now our researcher vows to repent, and delves off into further research of Mystium under the pretense of bringing peace or something. Here the accident happens, and his body becomes "enriched " with Mystium. Now our villain has power to use and act upon, and he has the motives to begin his domination of the world. |
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| oniskieth | March 2, 2013, 5:10 pm Post #21 |
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The Silver Light
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Hmmm |
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Katherine's Approval
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| Green | March 2, 2013, 10:43 pm Post #22 |
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THE Man
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Point taken, but how would we address such an issue? |
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| NTNP | March 3, 2013, 2:35 pm Post #23 |
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Admin
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I'm going to pull away from the generic villain thing and grab onto the idea of the well-intentioned extremist that Shade described since I like him a great deal more. The big bad's reasons for wanting to become immortal is a fairly simple one, he wants to make sure that everything keeps going according to plan. Lets assume three things about the BB. First, he is a control freak that has issues giving control over to others. Secondly, while he has a few trusted comrades, the BB has not yet found his heir and thus believes that there is no one worthy to truly carry on his "vision' of the world. Lastly, he has a mild delusions of grandeur. He believes that due to a variety of things, that he is greater than other humans and thus has ascended in a way. I personally would vote the idea of his experiments all having a final "grand goal" in mind, he hopes to one day become a mystsphere infused, eternal god that exists in a form of "absolution" within the mystspheres themselves. That means one day, if he was entirely successful, that the BB would "shed" his physical form and become an etheral essence that controlled everything tied into a mystsphere from the dragons (who perhaps created the mystspheres or their components), the people that use it, the machinery based upon the mystspheres etc. In a modern day sense, imagine if he became the internet and had absolute control of anything and everything connected to the internet? Wouldn't that be an amazing (and possible) final goal to make sure that he and he alone, could control mankind's fate?
I like the idea that his meaning of invincible is not "cannot be killed" but instead becomes "his essence/spirit cannot be ended." Once he sheds his physical form and gains absolute control over the world, he will be dead. His body would obviously cease to exist, but by becoming something greater his will would continue. This would also explain the paranoia aspects as well. He is within a lifetime of reaching immortality first probably through the artificial means described above and then later (maybe in another 100 years of research) literally becoming the power that drives the world. When the experiments are over, he will be eternal. But until then, he is still in a (relatively) weak and mortal form, which means he needs to take exceptional amounts of care in his actions. His mind, his vision, they could change the entire course of history... but all it would take to stop that right now would be a single, well place bullet/arrow/bolt etc to the head for him to perish and for everything to be lost. In the BB's mind, the world deserves more than that.
And perhaps because for a long time he was powerless himself? I'm imagining that say... 20 years ago (10 years before the invasion) that he was a young man. Probably from a middle class family, who managed to get involved with development because of a massive amount of studying and working, tierlessly, 60 hours a week on top of school just to get where most of the 'rich' started. When he became an adult and finished school, he became a researcher involved with magitech development. He barely had enough means to do his job and was pushed around by anyone. As the magitech war became more desperate, he was put into a field position (against his wishes) and ended up a hostage who barely managed to survive. Returning after the war (perhaps on whatever side won), even after all the bloodshed and suffering he was still a nobody. At least until the day he made his "big" discovery and started down his path. He had always been an idealist, someone that would talk at length about how things "should be" and when he was finally given the chance... he took it. That is all you would need to know about the man who the Big Bad once was to understand him. |
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| oniskieth | March 4, 2013, 11:51 am Post #24 |
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The Silver Light
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We need to push the big picture! Focus less on the minor things that are wasting assets! This is a company, not a friendly rp forum! Edited by oniskieth, March 4, 2013, 11:51 am.
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Katherine's Approval
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