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How to defeat Islam - non-violently.; Altering the spiritual and material cost/benefits of being a Muslim
Topic Started: Jan 2 2011, 03:47 AM (6,104 Views)
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If we don't defeat Islam as an ideology it will exterminate us culturally and physically
Islam is an utterly ruthless totalitarian political system disguised as a religion. Islam will literally stop at nothing to achieve its objective of world domination, with all non-Muslims exterminated or enslaved. Muslims who deny this are lying (Muslims are encouraged to tell lies to further the expansion of Islam). Terrorism is an intrinsic and inseparable part of Islam.

Consequently, the ideology of Islam MUST be defeated. It must be consigned to the dustbin of history along with those other vicious totalitarianisms - Nazism and Communism. The alternative is our extermination as a civilisation, and the whole world being plunged into an endless theocratic Dark Age.

There can be no violent solution
In an age of nuclear weapons, the option of exterminating Islam the way we exterminated Nazism - by world war - is unthinkable. Apart from anything else, there is no guarantee that the West could win an all-out World War III against Islam. Our infrastructure, government and military have been too far infiltrated by jihadists. There would be thousands of Fort Hood style massacres of our troops if a war broke out between Dar al-Harb and Dar al-Islam, not to mention massive sabotage of military and civilian infrastructure and violent intifadas in Muslim-dominated cities throughout the West.

This is not to say that the Muslims would win a World War either. The victors of WWIII would be well-organised authoritarian states with small Muslim populations who would be prepared to be ruthless in keeping their Muslims in order. China springs to mind.

A new cold war
The only option for defeating Islam is to undermine it in the same way we undermined communism - by a slow process of ideological warfare.


Altering the spiritual and material cost/benefits of being a Muslim
Like other religions, Islam promises spiritual benefits from being a member of the cult - namely avoidance of hell and entry into paradise, which in Islam's case is a well-appointed brothel in the sky. But unlike other religions, Islam also offers material benefits in the here and now, for example immunity to normal laws, superior status to all non-Muslims (dhimmis) and sanctified rape and pillage where the victims are non-Muslims.

Adherence to any belief system usually has two components - faith and conformity. In Islam, as with communism, the forces of conformity are very strong and are imposed with murderous ruthlessness. Nevertheless, once the faith has gone, the habits of conformity will become an empty shell, which will eventually implode.

So we need to attack Islam on both fronts, by demonstrating that the spiritual benefits of the 'faith' are bogus - Islam is confidence trick set up by a ruthless megalomaniac, we also need to decrease the benefits of conformity by increasing the costs and reducing benefits of being a Muslim in the material world here and now.


Destroying and replacing Muslim beliefs
Islam may appear hard, but it is also brittle. A small crack anywhere in the structure can spread throughout. Islam claims that the Koran is the literal word of God, which was dictated to, but not written by, Mohammed.

So it's an all-or-nothing cult. Any fault in the Koran, or doubts as to the truthfulness of Mohammed, can cause the whole system to disintegrate. Muslims already subconsciously realise this, because they fly into tantrums whenever either Mohammed or the Koran is 'disrespected' . Under Sharia law any criticism or either Mohammed or the Koran is blasphemy which is punished by death.

This paranoid, hypersensitive defensiveness and outrage at criticism are not the reactions of a confident belief system, but of an information-control cult. These reactions are evidence of an attempt to protect a fatal vulnerability, an attempt to cover an Achilles heel.

The location of that Achilles heel was amply demonstrated by the Satanic Verses affair, the Motoons rage, and by the OIC's insidious attempts to introduce global laws against 'blasphemy' of Mohammed. The Muslims themselves have shown us their most vulnerable spot, which is the questionable (though unquestioned) character of the 'Prophet' himself. We need to satirise and ridicule baby-bonking Mo until the Muslims fly into uncontrollable tantrums, then ridicule them even more for their tantrums, and repeat the process until they froth at the mouth and steam comes out of their ears.


Jesus, Buddha and Mohammed.
Unlike the two other religions that have a single founder, Islam is uniquely and solely dependent upon the truthfulness of that founder.

Christianity is based on a long tradition of Jewish religion ( Christians would say it is the culmination of that tradition ), and the Bible was written by numerous authors . Jesus himself did not produce the Christian scriptures. His teachings were independently recorded by his disciples.

Buddhism has philosophical and yogic foundations which are claimed to be independently reproducible by anyone who follows the Buddha's reasoning and instructions ( 'Four seals of Dharma' ). "Anyone who accepts these four seals, even independently of Buddha’s teachings, even never having heard the name Shakyamuni Buddha, can be considered to be on the same path as he. "

In contrast everything in Islam originates from the uncorroborated testimony of one pedophile, and pedophiles are notorious liars and conmen. Despite the Muslims trying to pull the 'Abrahamic Religions' taqiyya tactic, Islam is not a continuation of Judeo-Christian religion, it is a garbled plagiarism of Jewish and Christian scriptures which is in many respects a contradiction and corruption of the originals.

If you destroy the credibility of Mohammed, you destroy Islam.
The primary target of the propaganda counterjihad must be Mohammed. If Mohammed is revealed as an imposter, a fraud and a conman then the Koran and Hadiths are worthless raving and ramblings, mere sound and fury signifying nothing. Muslims revere Mohammed because very few know the truth about him. . The effectiveness of the direct attack on Mohammed has been demonstrated by father Zakaria Botros, a Christian Priest who broadcasts the truth about Mohammed, based on the Muslims' own scriptures:

"It's not enough that al-Qaeda has called Fr Zakaria Botros "one of the most wanted infidels in the world," issuing a 60 million dollar bounty on his head, or that popular Arabic magazines call him "Islam's public enemy #1"; now, as expected, CAIR is getting in on the action, calling for a "national alert" -- as in umma alert, eerily reminiscent of a fatwa -- against him. Apparently his last few shows dealing with Muhammad's questionable sexual habits, including necrophilia - are irking CAIR.

Why do radical Muslims, such as CAIR, hate -- and fear -- Zakaria Botros so? The problem Muslims have with Fr Botros is that they simply cannot refute him: everything he says -- no matter how scandalizing to Islam -- is always based on, often revered, Islamic sources. Moreover, Fr Botros rarely makes any claims about Islam: he only exposes; he only raises questions and then invites Islam's ulema to respond and "clarify" the matter. However, as this story indicates, their response is only to have him censored -- or, for the more radical, killed."
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2009/01/father-zakaria-botros-on-cairs-radar.html

Providing an alternative to Islam
The Muslims who have abandoned Islam will need somewhere else to go. Some will abandon religion altogether and become secularists, but as most people need some sort of religious belief in their life an alternative must be provided. This means that apostates (people who have converted out of Islam) will need protection from the murderous intentions of their former co-religionists . Attempts to intimidate apostates must be treated as serious hate-crimes and punished with the utmost severity.

Of the two 'universal' religions - Buddhism and Christianity - the most suitable Islam-substitute is probably Christianity and is better fitted to Muslims' intellectual capacities than the more philosophical Buddhism. The churches must therefore be encouraged to minister to Muslims, protect apostates, and even set up covert online churches where Muslims may privately convert to Christianity without taking the risks of 'coming out' by declaring their true faith while thy are still vulnerable.

Destroying Mohammed's street cred among 'jihadi cool' youths.
'Jihadi cool' Muslim youths in the west are a thuggish, predatory and parasitic criminal underclass of gangstas. Our normal standards of rationality and morality do not apply to them. They are also severely inbred which means that most of them are of low intelligence if not actually psychopathically insane. They have no loyalty to their country of residence nor any intention of obeying its 'man-made laws', just an arrogant sense of unearned entitlement and the Allah-given right to rape and pillage at will.

Consequently, the psychopath Muhammad is in many respects an ideal role-model for them, and his robberies, rapes and massacres (especially of the Jews) are seen as 'cool' by most Muslim teenagers. Terrorists such as Bin Laden are idolised by Muslim youth. Mohammed's sexual perversions are also widely approved of, as Muslim communities are the only ones in which paedophilia is an acceptable pastime. Many young Muslim boys are involved in pimping kuffar children by befriending them before handing them over to older 'cousins' for prostitution.

The Muslim mind is pre-rational, predatory and tribal. Appeals to reason are no use because they believe that faith is superior to reason, and the fact that the Koran is full of contradictions doesn't bother them in the slightest. Islam hasn't had an enlightenment and is still in the Dark Ages. In fact, the cult justifies itself in terms of a power-structure maintained by physical threats and lynch-mobs rather than reason or spirituality.

Appeals to normal human decency as an antidote to Islam are pointless. Muslims believe it is their duty to kill, maim, rape, swindle and rob the kaffir (unbeliever) - this is an intrinsic part of their cult. The 'Golden Rule' - 'do unto others as you would they do unto you' , does not extend beyond the boundaries of the Ummah-tribe. So, for example, displaying pictures of the aftermath of Muslim atrocities is a waste of time - this will actually encourage them. Many Muslim men and boys get sexually aroused by watching jihad-snuff videos of kaffirs being tortured and beheaded.

Pointing out that Muslims are useless parasites on the West is also not going to make them change their ways, because that's what they are unashamedly here for.

The way to get at them, is to damage their inflated and fragile egos. Because Muslims are at a tribal state of pre-civilised development, they venerate the totems of their tribe, and will go into tantrums if these are 'disrespected'. Unstable adolescents are constantly seeking 'significance' and 'respect'.

Mohammed is of course one of the main totems, so one of the ways to discredit him is to turn him into a laughing stock. No cool teenager will follow a figure of ridicule, which is why the Muslims got so enraged when the Motoons came out. Ridicule is one of the most effective weapons against Islam.


No streetwise adolescent delinquent likes to be conned. So if you can also show Mohammed as the conman he was, then this is likely to have a far greater effect on 'jihadi cool' young Muslims than his violence and criminality (which they admire). They may approve of him conning his contemporaries, they may approve of him duping the hated kuffars with taqiyya, but they will be very sure not to let him con themselves.
More at http://crombouke.blogspot.com/2010/01/exorcising-mohammed-conman-from-minds.html


Removing the benefits and increasing the costs of being Muslim
The second line of attack on Islam should be to make make belonging to the Ummah costly and unattractive in a material sense.
At present Muslims are pandered to and given special privileges just because they are Muslims. They believe that 'Islam must dominate and must not be dominated'. For example:


- Muslims are given priority for social housing. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/5213588.stm

- Muslims are exempted from paying bank interest charges on overdrafts. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1208204/An-overdraft-Thatll-200-Lloyds-TSB-15-youre-Muslim.html

- Muslims enjoy immunity from hate-crime legislation http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/personal-view/4975163/Stop-pandering-to-enemies-of-our-way-of-life.html

- Muslim communities are given vast sums of protection money (jizya) to try and buy off terrorist attacks. http://uppompeii1.uppompeii.com/2009/03/12/i-would-like-to-help-the-government--but-you-cannot-fix-stupid.aspx

- Courts automatically award Muslims huge sums in compensation for damages for 'hurt feelings' on trumped up charges of discrimination. http://crombouke.blogspot.com/2010/01/muslim-litigation-jihad-and-lawfare.html

- Muslims are allowed to practice polygamy and receive benefits for each wife http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1154789/Polygamy-UK-This-special-Mail-investigation-reveals-thousands-men-milking-benefits-support-wives.html and http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-557331/Muslim-spared-speeding-ban-drive-wives.html

- Muslims are encouraged to live as welfare parasites http://crombouke.blogspot.com/2010/01/islamic-parasites.html

- Muslims are allowed to operate pedophile rings without fear of prosecution lest it damages 'community cohesion'.
http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/2010/11/muslim-crime-in-uk-part-2.html
and http://www.jihadwatch.org/2004/05/uks-channel-4-pulls-child-sex-documentary-on-racial-fears.html and http://isupporttheresistance.blogspot.com/2007/09/asian-paedophile-prositution-network.html


- Muslims demand Muslim-only prayer rooms at taxpayers' expense. http://www.jihadwatch.org/2009/03/australia-muslim-university-students-demand-muslims-only-prayer-rooms.html

- Muslims are allowed to dictate who may visit Parliament http://archbishop-cranmer.blogspot.com/2009/01/lord-ahmed-threatens-parliament-into.html

- Broadcasters must never upset Muslims http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/religion/3198804/BBC-boss-says-Islam-should-be-treated-more-sensitively-than-Christianity.html and http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jonathanwynne-jones/5501911/Sony_confirms_Muslims_can_expect_better_treatment_than_Christians/

- Muslim students are given religious benefits that aren't given to members of any other religion http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/07/31/is-this-preferential-treatment-for-muslims/

- Muslims expect to be given free land to set up Mosques http://swindonnf.blogspot.com/2008/09/muslims-in-my-area-are-asking-local.html

- Muslims get public money diverted from churches http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/religion/5803962/Church-accuses-Government-of-favouring-Muslims.html

- Muslims get preferential treatment in hospital http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/27213/Nurses-told-to-turn-Muslims-beds-to-Mecca
- Muslims get Muslim-only swimming sessions at public expense http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-560231/Public-pool-bars-father-son-Muslim-swimming-session.html

- Muslims are allowed to part illegally near Mosques http://theopinionator.typepad.com/my_weblog/2009/01/just-another-example-of-muslims-expecting-preferential-treatment-when-it-comes-to-local-or-national-laws-and-nothing-like-th.html

- Muslims can expect lenient sentences for traffic offenses http://isupporttheresistance.blogspot.com/2009/03/so-lord-slaughter-is-freed.html and http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-557331/Muslim-spared-speeding-ban-drive-wives.html

- Muslim criminals cannot be deported. http://theopinionator.typepad.com/my_weblog/2010/12/muslim-man-who-killed-12-yr-old-seeks-to-remain-in-uk.html

The Strong Horse effect
All pandering, appeasement, legal immunities and special privileges contribute to what Bin Laden calls the 'strong horse effect', which makes them confident of winning the Stealth Jihad.

So as a first measure, all special treatment should be withdrawn.

Secondly, Muslims should not merely be treated the same as everybody else, but should be made to pay the price of their totally negative antisocial and damaging presence in our countries.


- Muslim immigration must be stopped.

- Muslims must be regarded as enemy aliens and banned from sensitive occupations where they may be a security risk.

- All illegal Muslim immigrants must be deported, or if they can't be sent back to their countries of origin they must be held in internment camps until some country will accept them.

- All Muslims guilty of serious crimes must be deported.

- Translation at public expense must be stopped.

- All Muslim clergy must be put under surveillance and deported at the first sign of trouble.

- Muslims who leave the country should not be allowed back in unless they can prove they were here legally in the first place.

- Cousin marriage must be banned to disrupt their breeding cycle and spare the Health Service the cost of their inbred offspring.

- Muslim welfare parasitism must be clamped down on rigorously. Hopefully they may move elsewhere once they realise they're no longer going to get a free ride.

- We need to get out of the EU to prevent other EU countries 'Muzzie-dumping' on us.

- Remains of terrorists should be buried in pigskin, Russian style, to prevent them entering paradise.

- Extended families of terrorists should be rounded up and deported as accomplices, since family members often encourage terrorism in the hope of a free ride to paradise.

- Kuffars should boycott Muslim businesses and products.

- To reduce our dependence on Muslim oil we should encourage the development of rail transport as it is inherently more efficient than road (due to the much lower rolling resistance of steel wheel on steel rail ) and can be electrified to run on other fuels. We should also develop our coal and nuclear industries.


Those are my ideas for (a) weakening Islam as an ideology (b) reducing the advantages of remaining a Muslim and (c) increasing the advantages of not being a Muslim. Can anybody think of any more?
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That is a fantastic read. Well done.
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cunamarra
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You made many suggestions directed at Muslims but you must also keep in mind your own people. You will never get anything accomplished if people continue to declare Islam is remotely respectible. Islam must be discussed openly and honestly in public discourse. Your people need to have children. You must raise a generation of thinkers who are not bullies but refuse to be bullied. Ever. If you have less than six children you are wrong and are condemning the future of your nation. Your children must know their heritage both the good and bad aspects of it, recognizing the bad and striving for the good and take a healthy pride in that good so that they understand why it is better than anything Islam has to offer. They must sincerely know that their own heritage is worth defending.

You say your stance is not for anything but simply against Islam. Islam by any other name is still a rotter culture. You had better be for something virtuous and atleast part of it had better be honesty and freedom of the mind. Two things Islam brutally oppresses. This struggle has gone on for fourteen centruries. Our sons and our great grandsons will be dealing with it. It is up to us to prepare them. The last generation has failed us. The current generation is in the process of failing the next. It is up to us to reverse it.
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Ronbo
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Excellent article!

Will post on my blog.
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General Pershing
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Likewise, I'll be posting this around the web.
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General Pershing
Jan 2 2011, 02:57 PM
Likewise, I'll be posting this around the web.
Yes, everyone please feel free to copy and post, though a link back to this forum would be appreciated:

http://s1.zetaboards.com/EDL_The_Forum/forum/1674686/
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infidel1000
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i think you are underestimating two things Bamiyan,the first you mentioned in your opening paragraph,islam is not to be compared to communism or naziism,islam is both of these perversions but rolled up and made whole by claiming to be a religion and as such is accepted by practically all of its followers worldwide.

secondly i think you vastly underestimate the military capability of the western world,i believe only pakistan and possibly iran have nuclear weapons in the islamic world which is why i believe these two countries should be nuetralised asap.

lastly i think you have failed to notice that the war has already started undeclared but waged anyway by the evil 7th century forces of fanatical islam,over 1600 terrorist atrocities commited by muslims since 9/11.

i see excellent points in your post bamiyan but i think it was out of date before you even posted it.the war is here now,we cannot hope education and psychology will work through the next generation because there wont be a next generation of us if this present generation does not stop islam dead.The muslims wont listen to anything you have to say they will just kill you,problem solved for them,only FORCE will stop islam now as it always has been.



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infidel1000
Jan 2 2011, 03:20 PM
i think you are underestimating two things Bamiyan,the first you mentioned in your opening paragraph,islam is not to be compared to communism or naziism,islam is both of these perversions but rolled up and made whole by claiming to be a religion and as such is accepted by practically all of its followers worldwide.

secondly i think you vastly underestimate the military capability of the western world,i believe only pakistan and possibly iran have nuclear weapons in the islamic world which is why i believe these two countries should be nuetralised asap.

lastly i think you have failed to notice that the war has already started undeclared but waged anyway by the evil 7th century forces of fanatical islam,over 1600 terrorist atrocities commited by muslims since 9/11.

i see excellent points in your post bamiyan but i think it was out of date before you even posted it.the war is here now,we cannot hope education and psychology will work through the next generation because there wont be a next generation of us if this present generation does not stop islam dead.The muslims wont listen to anything you have to say they will just kill you,problem solved for them,only FORCE will stop islam now as it always has been.



infadel1000..........my glass is half full.......yours might be half empy.

i see perfect sence in what MR B has put up in the post..its for here and now.its for tomorrow too.our people and the next generation........its not like like a suffering religion like the christians or jews,its a preditory cult that is a cameleon, with the devil at its core.we learn ow/today and our next generations to follow.that is how we can beat this opprosive tyranny....its likethe falshood christians in america god gave you wealth so he must love you.what a load of fuuuuuucking bollox.
i cant add more to it just yet but i will come back and do so.

keep the faith

paxi :)
infidel1000
Jan 2 2011, 03:20 PM
i think you are underestimating two things Bamiyan,the first you mentioned in your opening paragraph,islam is not to be compared to communism or naziism,islam is both of these perversions but rolled up and made whole by claiming to be a religion and as such is accepted by practically all of its followers worldwide.<br /><br />secondly i think you vastly underestimate the military capability of the western world,i believe only pakistan and possibly iran have nuclear weapons in the islamic world which is why i believe these two countries should be nuetralised asap.<br /><br />lastly i think you have failed to notice that the war has already started undeclared but waged anyway by the evil 7th century forces of fanatical islam,over 1600 terrorist atrocities commited by muslims since 9/11.<br /><br />i see excellent points in your post bamiyan but i think it was out of date before you even posted it.the war is here now,we cannot hope education and psychology will work through the next generation because there wont be a next generation of us if this present generation does not stop islam dead.The muslims wont listen to anything you have to say they will just kill you,problem solved for them,only FORCE will stop islam now as it always has been.<br /><br /><br /><br />
infadel1000..........my glass is half full.......yours might be half empy.

i see perfect sence in what MR B has put up in the post..its for here and now.its for tomorrow too.our people and the next generation........its not like like a suffering religion like the christians or jews,its a preditory cult that is a cameleon, with the devil at its core.we learn ow/today and our next generations to follow.that is how we can beat this opprosive tyranny....its likethe falshood christians in america god gave you wealth so he must love you.what a load of fuuuuuucking bollox.
i cant add more to it just yet but i will come back and do so.

keep the faith

paxi :)
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Tony G
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Awesome reading that.
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infidel1000
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paxi christi
Jan 2 2011, 03:30 PM
infidel1000
Jan 2 2011, 03:20 PM
i think you are underestimating two things Bamiyan,the first you mentioned in your opening paragraph,islam is not to be compared to communism or naziism,islam is both of these perversions but rolled up and made whole by claiming to be a religion and as such is accepted by practically all of its followers worldwide.

secondly i think you vastly underestimate the military capability of the western world,i believe only pakistan and possibly iran have nuclear weapons in the islamic world which is why i believe these two countries should be nuetralised asap.

lastly i think you have failed to notice that the war has already started undeclared but waged anyway by the evil 7th century forces of fanatical islam,over 1600 terrorist atrocities commited by muslims since 9/11.

i see excellent points in your post bamiyan but i think it was out of date before you even posted it.the war is here now,we cannot hope education and psychology will work through the next generation because there wont be a next generation of us if this present generation does not stop islam dead.The muslims wont listen to anything you have to say they will just kill you,problem solved for them,only FORCE will stop islam now as it always has been.



infadel1000..........my glass is half full.......yours might be half empy.

i see perfect sence in what MR B has put up in the post..its for here and now.its for tomorrow too.our people and the next generation........its not like like a suffering religion like the christians or jews,its a preditory cult that is a cameleon, with the devil at its core.we learn ow/today and our next generations to follow.that is how we can beat this opprosive tyranny....its likethe falshood christians in america god gave you wealth so he must love you.what a load of fuuuuuucking bollox.
i cant add more to it just yet but i will come back and do so.

keep the faith

paxi :)
infidel1000
Jan 2 2011, 03:20 PM
i think you are underestimating two things Bamiyan,the first you mentioned in your opening paragraph,islam is not to be compared to communism or naziism,islam is both of these perversions but rolled up and made whole by claiming to be a religion and as such is accepted by practically all of its followers worldwide.<br /><br />secondly i think you vastly underestimate the military capability of the western world,i believe only pakistan and possibly iran have nuclear weapons in the islamic world which is why i believe these two countries should be nuetralised asap.<br /><br />lastly i think you have failed to notice that the war has already started undeclared but waged anyway by the evil 7th century forces of fanatical islam,over 1600 terrorist atrocities commited by muslims since 9/11.<br /><br />i see excellent points in your post bamiyan but i think it was out of date before you even posted it.the war is here now,we cannot hope education and psychology will work through the next generation because there wont be a next generation of us if this present generation does not stop islam dead.The muslims wont listen to anything you have to say they will just kill you,problem solved for them,only FORCE will stop islam now as it always has been.<br /><br /><br /><br />
infadel1000..........my glass is half full.......yours might be half empy.

i see perfect sence in what MR B has put up in the post..its for here and now.its for tomorrow too.our people and the next generation........its not like like a suffering religion like the christians or jews,its a preditory cult that is a cameleon, with the devil at its core.we learn ow/today and our next generations to follow.that is how we can beat this opprosive tyranny....its likethe falshood christians in america god gave you wealth so he must love you.what a load of fuuuuuucking bollox.
i cant add more to it just yet but i will come back and do so.

keep the faith

paxi :)
You are 100% wrong in your assessment of my glass paxi,if you had read many of my posts you would have realised i am the eternal optimist but always a realist.

I have to admit i am quite astounded at those amongst us who actually believe that the fanatical ranks of islam are going to wait around for us to educate /brainwash them into being civilised human beings,it aint gonna happen while you are attempting to "educate" them their mates will be round at your gaffe slitting your mothers throat.

THE WAR HAS STARTED,WARS ARE WON BY FORCE,get your heads up out of the sand and face facts,1600 terrorist attacks in countries all around the world on all continents SINCE 9/11 dosent that tell you something?.we dont have time for airy fairy hypotheses,we simply dont have the time.what you are talking about is chamberlain type appeasement and you know where his "i have in my hand a piece of paper signed by myself and herr hitler" got us dont you.

Try and accept the war is here and now because if enough of you dont believe it is then we are in bigger trouble they i thought.
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Sperlative , peerless , flawless , an almost supernatural perception and understanding. Beyond belief . I am in awe - I say no more except to say that as a future alternative to Muslim apostates ' Christianity ' per se ie Trinitarianism would not - I argue - be a viable option . An authentic UNITARIAN ie Arian ' Christianity emphasing the HUMAN ' Christ ' ( = Massiach - Messiah in Judaism ) WOULD be more suitable. Failing which I would also propose - and even more so perhaps - the Noachides ( Beni Noach ) ....with their emphasis on the Seven Laws of Noah...In Judaism these are binding upon ALL Humanity....More words are not required now except that this analysis MUST be put in the public domain and marketed to reach the maximum number of people worldwide.

Kaleb
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the war with islam started 1440 years ago..it came at torres in vienna..many many times it has come to take over this is not unique at all...we have educated people historians politcians...who know more than what we think we know....its not just about islam/sharia............its the dhimmies also....you have to educate those..........this is how rome fell........intelectual suicide...thought that everybody is the samethey are not but we all know right and wrong in the western world.totaly different to the right and wrong in the islamic world dont you think....


i know you are not half full..it was wrong of me to put it over that way but it makes common logical sence what MR B has put into the post.maybe a tweek and a add on but it does..


islam is nothing new in wars and invasions.......people should start to realise this its like the world has just started off.....but isnt that what the education/society wants every one to believe?history and knowledge is the name of the game.

my oppologies infadel1000 if i came across rude :$


keep the faith

paxi :)
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infidel1000
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paxi christi
Jan 2 2011, 04:07 PM
the war with islam started 1440 years ago..it came at torres in vienna..many many times it has come to take over this is not unique at all...we have educated people historians politcians...who know more than what we think we know....its not just about islam/sharia............its the dhimmies also....you have to educate those..........this is how rome fell........intelectual suicide...thought that everybody is the samethey are not but we all know right and wrong in the western world.totaly different to the right and wrong in the islamic world dont you think....


i know you are not half full..it was wrong of me to put it over that way but it makes common logical sence what MR B has put into the post.maybe a tweek and a add on but it does..


islam is nothing new in wars and invasions.......people should start to realise this its like the world has just started off.....but isnt that what the education/society wants every one to believe?history and knowledge is the name of the game.

my oppologies infadel1000 if i came across rude :$


keep the faith

paxi :)
No apologies needed paxi,on this forum we are allowed to disagree and have a bit of a barney.the hypothesis put forward is all very beguiling but what do those of you who are in agreement with it propose to do about whats happening NOW,the over 16000 terrorist attacks "SINCE" 9/11?,the riots in the suburbs of Paris every new years eve,the slaughter of coptic christians in Egypt on new years eve.

Extremist islam simply isn't going to wait for your re-education programs,they are already way ahead of you with their own plans of world domination,those of you who realise that this war has been going on for centuries should be the last to give islam an inch as everytime you do you know damn well they take a mile.

Stop believing these creatures think like we do because they dont and never will.

I say again"only force can stop force",we cannot educate all our own children in the 3 r's let alone re-educate fanatical muslims.

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home education does a bit of good.word of mouth also. what do you suggest then .kill them all,because once the game of fighting back forcefully happens there will be blood shed thoughout. 7/7 will be a picknick,even though it wasnt to what will happen .i know who im facing.you dont need to elbow me and make me sit up.ive learned since a young boy who theyare and whatt they do.im 45 by the way in feb...its the lefties and dhimmies who the battle should also be taken to.they are the school teacher who the school bully stands behind.

so we all go for vengance on islam.take the streets and draw lines in a turf war............im civilised.i try and do it in a manner of the like.but if it comes to it ill stricke back make no qualms about that.
iits a game of chess.unfrtunatley.brute force and ignorance may win a battle but not a war.



keep the faith

paxi :)
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Kaleb
Jan 2 2011, 04:03 PM
Sperlative , peerless , flawless , an almost supernatural perception and understanding. Beyond belief . I am in awe - I say no more except to say that as a future alternative to Muslim apostates ' Christianity ' per se ie Trinitarianism would not - I argue - be a viable option . An authentic UNITARIAN ie Arian ' Christianity emphasing the HUMAN ' Christ ' ( = Massiach - Messiah in Judaism ) WOULD be more suitable. Failing which I would also propose - and even more so perhaps - the Noachides ( Beni Noach ) ....with their emphasis on the Seven Laws of Noah...In Judaism these are binding upon ALL Humanity....More words are not required now except that this analysis MUST be put in the public domain and marketed to reach the maximum number of people worldwide.

Kaleb
Trinitarianism isn't a problem, though the Muslims try to make it one: http://crombouke.blogspot.com/2010/01/tawhid-or-tawheed-versus-christian.html

However if people really get hung up on the Trinity, there is a Unitarian tradition within modern Christianity http://www.unitarian.org.uk/intro/history.shtml
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A brilliant peice of work, already posted to my fb info & notes with a link back to the forum. Good effort!!!
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infidel1000
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paxi christi
Jan 2 2011, 04:48 PM
home education does a bit of good.word of mouth also. what do you suggest then .kill them all,because once the game of fighting back forcefully happens there will be blood shed thoughout. 7/7 will be a picknick,even though it wasnt to what will happen .i know who im facing.you dont need to elbow me and make me sit up.ive learned since a young boy who theyare and whatt they do.im 45 by the way in feb...its the lefties and dhimmies who the battle should also be taken to.they are the school teacher who the school bully stands behind.

so we all go for vengance on islam.take the streets and draw lines in a turf war............im civilised.i try and do it in a manner of the like.but if it comes to it ill stricke back make no qualms about that.
iits a game of chess.unfrtunatley.brute force and ignorance may win a battle but not a war.



keep the faith

paxi :)
the war against the nazi's and the japanese were both won,the similarities between these two wars and the war against islam is that most of the world was and will be neccessary to defeat them.

You keep dodging my question "what do you propose to do about the war that is already raging all around the world",the fact that 1600 terrorist attacks have been carried out by muslims since 9/11 seems to have no effect on you or your opinions.

"I have in my hand a piece of paper signed by myself and herr hitler",and the whole country breathed a sigh of relief,meantime herr hitler was preparing to attack Poland setting off a chain of events which led to the slaughter of an estimated 50 million people.Appeasers are not much different from those you call lefties and dhimmis,they all have their heads in the sand and can be classified amongst "those who will not see".

You may well be civilised but you are up against those who are not,9/11-/7/7 and on new years eve the slaughter of the 21 coptic christians,they love civilised people they think we are soft and will be easy to roll over,thats the mistake the japanese and nazi's made last time but civilised people take a long time to realise that only force will stop the enemy destroying us and acting on it thats what makes them civilised and way behind in preparing for a war thats already been declared and being waged by islam.

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How to defeat Islam - non-violently.; Altering the spiritual and material cost/benefits of being a Muslim............


that is the title.


keep the faith

paxi :)
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infidel1000
Jan 2 2011, 05:45 PM
"what do you propose to do about the war that is already raging all around the world"
I wish I could answer that question for you but I don't honestly think any one person has the answer because, if they did, we wouldn't need to constantly search for the answer.

The obvious starting point is to be aware of the problem and, having read your many posts, I can see you are streets ahead of many of the decent people of this country so apreading the message can only help. Spreading the message sounds such an easy task but, having tried many times myself, I know how difficult this can be when the tide is against us.
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paxi christi
Jan 2 2011, 05:56 PM
How to defeat Islam - non-violently.; Altering the spiritual and material cost/benefits of being a Muslim............


that is the title.


keep the faith

paxi :)
Not up to answering the hard questions then,thought not.
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you saying im an appeaser by any chance.fpmsl :D :D :D .listen because you have infadel on your sig doesnt mean that you are some one who is not different to those who dont believe in islam.

listen my friend ive had a life of debauchery,violence,the lot ive choosemy path. the end of it will probably lead to the end of yur path jst we might choose different directions....

i do believe that you have over looked CP post on this ........that is why ive not posted another reply.what vould i add to her post?


keep the faith

paxi :)
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Peter de Montaigu
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Bamiyan....this is a really excellent post. If I may quote your 2nd paragraph...

"...the ideology of Islam MUST be defeated. It must be consigned to the dustbin of history along with those other vicious totalitarianisms - Nazism and Communism. The alternative is our extermination as a civilisation, and the whole world being plunged into an endless theocratic Dark Age."

I particularly like this for 2 reasons, namely that you refer to Islam as an Ideology, and secondly for envisioning its consequence ...an endless theocratic Dark Age.

Point for discussion....I notice in your post that you refer to Islam as a "cult" quite frequently, but I think "Ideology" is perhaps a better word to use for raising the awareness of the public. I have seen interviews with Geert Wilders where he refers to Islam as an political-ideology, and see this as a more effective description because it takes it out of the Religous box (a no-go discussion area) and puts it in a political box (where everyone has an opinion). When I read "cult", I think of a religeous following but not necessarily really bad. Maybe if you said death-cult that may get the point across better, but I think Ideology is the best word.

Another interesting point you make is about destroying the credibility of Mo´. There is nothing worse for a believer than to suffer from doubt (it is the opposite of faith which is the foundation of all religeons). Just as an example, how many Christians have watched / read Da Vinci Code and not suffered from doubts about their faith's validity. So I think that your strategy of undermining Mo' by sowing the seeds of doubt is a good one, coupled with offering an alternative faith. What would be really helpful is to have quotes from muslim apostates, whose words could be broadcast. I don't know how such quotes could be obtained, maybe a piece of research need would reveal material readily available.

Keep up the good work!
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paxi christi
Jan 2 2011, 06:23 PM
ive had a life of debauchery,violence,
:'(
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Christine Patriot
Jan 2 2011, 06:28 PM
paxi christi
Jan 2 2011, 06:23 PM
ive had a life of debauchery,violence,
:'(
turned my back on my faith CP ...not any more. ;) :) ..would that be a confession by me by any chance.... :$ that why i say ........keep the faith..

this movement is not a knuckle dragging bunch of misfits by no meens...going to violence would contradict that dont you think infadel1000?


keep the faith

paxi :)
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Christine Patriot
Jan 2 2011, 06:06 PM
infidel1000
Jan 2 2011, 05:45 PM
"what do you propose to do about the war that is already raging all around the world"
I wish I could answer that question for you but I don't honestly think any one person has the answer because, if they did, we wouldn't need to constantly search for the answer.

The obvious starting point is to be aware of the problem and, having read your many posts, I can see you are streets ahead of many of the decent people of this country so apreading the message can only help. Spreading the message sounds such an easy task but, having tried many times myself, I know how difficult this can be when the tide is against us.
I honestly believe that the tide is turning CP,i take great inspiration from the numbers of new defence leagues opening up all over the world and especially from the German defence league taking the initiative on the mainland of Europe,bringing together all of the defence leagues of mainline Europe.

I think that this year will see which way and how the EDL will develop,i dont believe the TRAITORS at westminster can afford to ignore us for much longer especially because of those same new defence leagues which are opening all over the world many of them inspired by the EDL.

I am very optimistic about our future and i 100% agree with the continuation of the peaceful protest demonstrations which have been growing all last year,why change a winning formula?.

Eventually the murdering cowards of extremist islam "WILL" launch an attack on a European nation which will blow away all doubts in the European peoples minds about what islam intends, sometimes that is the only thing that will concentrate minds,unfortunately.
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paxi christi
Jan 2 2011, 06:34 PM
Christine Patriot
Jan 2 2011, 06:28 PM
paxi christi
Jan 2 2011, 06:23 PM
ive had a life of debauchery,violence,
:'(
turned my back on my faith CP ...not any more. ;) :) ..would that be a confession by me by any chance.... :$ that why i say ........keep the faith..

this movement is not a knuckle dragging bunch of misfits by no meens...going to violence would contradict that dont you think infadel1000?


keep the faith

paxi :)
It's OK, paxi, I know you to be a good man of faith, if it helps you than so much the better.



And this from an atheist - what's the world coming to???
infidel1000
Jan 2 2011, 06:37 PM
I honestly believe that the tide is turning CP,i take great inspiration from the numbers of new defence leagues opening up all over the world and especially from the German defence league taking the initiative on the mainland of Europe,bringing together all of the defence leagues of mainline Europe.

I think that this year will see which way and how the EDL will develop,i dont believe the TRAITORS at westminster can afford to ignore us for much longer especially because of those same new defence leagues which are opening all over the world many of them inspired by the EDL.

I am very optimistic about our future and i 100% agree with the continuation of the peaceful protest demonstrations which have been growing all last year,why change a winning formula?.

Eventually the murdering cowards of extremist islam "WILL" launch an attack on a European nation which will blow away all doubts in the European peoples minds about what islam intends, sometimes that is the only thing that will concentrate minds,unfortunately.
I find myself in full agreement of another of your posts.

The tide is inded turning and this year will see dramatic changes on both sides of the divide, islamist will get ever bolder and WWDL's will gain in strength, influence & numbers.

Politcians will no longer be able to ignore DL's or try to silence them and any attempts at appeasement will be seen for what they are. The day will arrive when politicians will publicy have to account or their actions.

I think the last 18 months of the EDL have been the laying of foundatins, this year expansion and building formidable bridges will be witnessed followed by escalations in attempts to silence or break down the WWDL's by islamists.

The one thing we'll never know too far in advance is when all hell will break loose.
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infidel1000
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Christine Patriot
Jan 2 2011, 06:40 PM
paxi christi
Jan 2 2011, 06:34 PM
Christine Patriot
Jan 2 2011, 06:28 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
turned my back on my faith CP ...not any more. ;) :) ..would that be a confession by me by any chance.... :$ that why i say ........keep the faith..

this movement is not a knuckle dragging bunch of misfits by no meens...going to violence would contradict that dont you think infadel1000?


keep the faith

paxi :)
It's OK, paxi, I know you to be a good man of faith, if it helps you than so much the better.



And this from an atheist - what's the world coming to???
infidel1000
Jan 2 2011, 06:37 PM
I honestly believe that the tide is turning CP,i take great inspiration from the numbers of new defence leagues opening up all over the world and especially from the German defence league taking the initiative on the mainland of Europe,bringing together all of the defence leagues of mainline Europe.

I think that this year will see which way and how the EDL will develop,i dont believe the TRAITORS at westminster can afford to ignore us for much longer especially because of those same new defence leagues which are opening all over the world many of them inspired by the EDL.

I am very optimistic about our future and i 100% agree with the continuation of the peaceful protest demonstrations which have been growing all last year,why change a winning formula?.

Eventually the murdering cowards of extremist islam "WILL" launch an attack on a European nation which will blow away all doubts in the European peoples minds about what islam intends, sometimes that is the only thing that will concentrate minds,unfortunately.
I find myself in full agreement of another of your posts.

The tide is inded turning and this year will see dramatic changes on both sides of the divide, islamist will get ever bolder and WWDL's will gain in strength, influence & numbers.

Politcians will no longer be able to ignore DL's or try to silence them and any attempts at appeasement will be seen for what they are. The day will arrive when politicians will publicy have to account or their actions.

I think the last 18 months of the EDL have been the laying of foundatins, this year expansion and building formidable bridges will be witnessed followed by escalations in attempts to silence or break down the WWDL's by islamists.

The one thing we'll never know too far in advance is when all hell will break loose.
Agreed especially about foundation building,we do indeed live in interesting times.
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something else to add, if i may .. good read op .. but after reading a review for a game, yes hold on before you all think i am going off topic ..

sun tzu says 'All warfare is based on deception'

now islam is being branded as the religion of peace, that is a clear deception .... we must consider this deception and tackle it head on with the bits covered in the OP...
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boudicca......sun tzu.........`the art of war` i do believe....
yes you are right in what you say. its a bloody big chess board is the globe eh.


keep the faith

paxi :)
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boudicca
Jan 2 2011, 07:33 PM
something else to add, if i may .. good read op .. but after reading a review for a game, yes hold on before you all think i am going off topic ..

sun tzu says 'All warfare is based on deception'

now islam is being branded as the religion of peace, that is a clear deception .... we must consider this deception and tackle it head on with the bits covered in the OP...
I dont think there can be many none muslim people left in the world who would still consider that islam is the "RELIGION OF PEACE" and the irony of it is that islam itself is responsible for this condition.

islam has attacked practically every country in the free,democratic and civilised parts of the world,they have slaughtered sikhs,buddhists,jews,hindu's,christians,catholics, protestants, gays and straights,and they have done it on every continent.

For anyone except the most brainwashed of muslims to any longer believe that islam is in anyway the "RELIGION OF PEACE" suggests that a one way ticket to the nearest funny farm should be issued instantly.
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Nell_Angel
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Bamiyan, Thank you for this post and your links. I came here very curious only 3 weeks ago. Looking back I think I needed to figure out why I had gradually developed an instinctive nausea, a deeply distressing depressing feeling of doom when I came across or was faced with Islam. This was shocking for a person who has prided herself on religious and racial tolerance, and truly did grow up in a multicultural environment and thrived on it.

I have learned so much from everyone here but mostly from you and your dedication to education with Facts, Evidence not with any prejudice but with scholarly reasoned argument.

You seem to be fulfilling a call and I am grateful that when you could have taken a much easier road, you didn't. You have put in the legwork for a lot of us and because of you and your dedication and your passion, I can comfortably prevail now in any discussion on this subject.

I agree with the posters who have started to disseminate your work more widely. Enough preaching to the converted :) 2011 must be the Year of the Great Awakening!

Thank you again. You are my EDL spiritual leader :)
John 10:10
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shiva2
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Bamiyan
Jan 2 2011, 03:47 AM
How to defeat Islam - non-violently.

Bamiyan, you put a lot of work into this, well done for your effort. You make a lot of excellent points, but there a many flaws, based on myths, wishful thinking or lack of research. I will say now it is good that this article has so many flaws, because it makes for a good debate.

I think that to have a successful debate which Bamiyans article deserves, it would be very sensible if we could try and split the article into sections and debate them in chronological order, not just take different items haphazard. I ask this because this article and its flaws need to debated in a serious manner, also for the debate to progress in a productive and positive direction. Lastly, I suspect because I am critical of this article, many would like to speak up and express their opinions, or have questions, so for me to answer all, it would help if there is a bit of order.

My motive to is not to win or lose this debate, it is so we can all learn, hopefully.

Quote:
 
There can be no violent solution
In an age of nuclear weapons, the option of exterminating Islam the way we exterminated Nazism - by world war - is unthinkable. Apart from anything else, there is no guarantee that the West could win an all-out World War III against Islam. Our infrastructure, government and military been too far infiltrated by jihadists. There would be thousands of Fort Hood style massacres of our troops if a war broke out between Dar al-Harb and Dar al-Islam, not to mention massive sabotage of military and civilian infrastructure and violent intifadas in Muslim-dominated cities throughout the West.


Here you are quite right, of exterminating Islam the way we exterminated Nazism - by world war - is unthinkable, and as you point out there is no guarantee that the West could win.

I do not think we would see a world war fought in the traditional way. There would be too many fronts, and the Kufr do not have the resources, we only have to look at Iraq and Afghan, just these two wars have stretched the military and made a big drain on Kufr economy, and the prospect of the kufr of winning these two wars is very slim. Both in Iraq and Afghan those that are pro USA/Coalition, are so, not because they have any love for USA, it is because of the $$$$$,s. The Kufr have failed to learn, you can purchase the service of a mohammedan, but you can never buy his heart.

The islamists learnt a lot from the Vietnam War where the USA had to withdraw, no matter what the USA threw at the viet cong, they could not break their resolve. They also observed that many in the USA did not support the war. The islamist will not wage open war in kufr nations,s, but lure the them to make war in islamic nations. The Kufr will not win these wars, because they will not break the resolve of the people, it will drain the kufr,s economy, and they will get support from many in Kufr lands, as we witnessed with the Stop the War demo where over a million turned out.

Another factor is oil, What played a mayor role in WW11 was Britain/USA had control over the oil, where as today 80% is controlled by Arabs. They can shut the supply to the West at any time, which no doubt please the chinese. At the moment they have no reason to shut down, because the trillions that is pouring into Arabs pockets is financing the islamization of the Kufr.

Why upset the applecart, Saudi is suspected of financing Al Qaeda.

It has been said that Al Qaeda spends about $30mil every year to keep its operations going. They are the largest. So, maybe it costs $40mil or $50mil world-wide for these different terror networks to continue operating.

How much does the middle east make, IN CASH, from the sale of their crude oil?

Saudi Arabia = $200bil/year

Yemen = $15bil/year

UAE = $40bil/year

Qatar = $20bil/year

Now add all that up, you get roughly $275bil/year. So you've got roughly about $275bil/year in cash floating around in that area,

So...here comes some math again...

$50,000,000 (cost of terrorism) / $275,000,000,000 (total wealth)

The Arabs can LITERALLY hand $50mil in cash to someone over a year's time and it would completely go unnoticed!!! To them it's pocket change.

We aren't only fighting the "muslim world". We are fighting against an incredibly small percentage of people who have obtained an incredibly large percentage of the world's wealth.

More math, Al Qaeda brought down the twin Towers, at a cost of less than a millions $,s Yet this attack has cost the Kufr,s billions and is still rising plus what it is costing to hunt them down

As another posted above, an all out war would caste every body back to the dark ages. This could very well happen, and if it did, it would be to the islamists advantage, as a large area of dar al islam is still in the dark age, or have just come out of it. The mohammedans would be able to adept to those conditions far quicker than the Kufr. Just image, that you had a power cut just now that lasted several days, and there was also a shortage of fuel. How would the Kufr cope if the power cuts where more severe that paper production was cut back, especially toilet paper Most Kufr would not cope, where for many in dar al islam this is the norm.

Also many islamist have no problem going back to the dark ages, as for them they consider that is the prophet lived, and the prophet warned against bid'ah (innovations)





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infidel1000
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abdulhamza
Jan 3 2011, 11:55 AM
Bamiyan
Jan 2 2011, 03:47 AM
How to defeat Islam - non-violently.

Bamiyan, you put a lot of work into this, well done for your effort. You make a lot of excellent points, but there a many flaws, based on myths, wishful thinking or lack of research. I will say now it is good that this article has so many flaws, because it makes for a good debate.

I think that to have a successful debate which Bamiyans article deserves, it would be very sensible if we could try and split the article into sections and debate them in chronological order, not just take different items haphazard. I ask this because this article and its flaws need to debated in a serious manner, also for the debate to progress in a productive and positive direction. Lastly, I suspect because I am critical of this article, many would like to speak up and express their opinions, or have questions, so for me to answer all, it would help if there is a bit of order.

My motive to is not to win or lose this debate, it is so we can all learn, hopefully.

Quote:
 
There can be no violent solution
In an age of nuclear weapons, the option of exterminating Islam the way we exterminated Nazism - by world war - is unthinkable. Apart from anything else, there is no guarantee that the West could win an all-out World War III against Islam. Our infrastructure, government and military been too far infiltrated by jihadists. There would be thousands of Fort Hood style massacres of our troops if a war broke out between Dar al-Harb and Dar al-Islam, not to mention massive sabotage of military and civilian infrastructure and violent intifadas in Muslim-dominated cities throughout the West.


Here you are quite right, of exterminating Islam the way we exterminated Nazism - by world war - is unthinkable, and as you point out there is no guarantee that the West could win.

I do not think we would see a world war fought in the traditional way. There would be too many fronts, and the Kufr do not have the resources, we only have to look at Iraq and Afghan, just these two wars have stretched the military and made a big drain on Kufr economy, and the prospect of the kufr of winning these two wars is very slim. Both in Iraq and Afghan those that are pro USA/Coalition, are so, not because they have any love for USA, it is because of the $$$$$,s. The Kufr have failed to learn, you can purchase the service of a mohammedan, but you can never buy his heart.

The islamists learnt a lot from the Vietnam War where the USA had to withdraw, no matter what the USA threw at the viet cong, they could not break their resolve. They also observed that many in the USA did not support the war. The islamist will not wage open war in kufr nations,s, but lure the them to make war in islamic nations. The Kufr will not win these wars, because they will not break the resolve of the people, it will drain the kufr,s economy, and they will get support from many in Kufr lands, as we witnessed with the Stop the War demo where over a million turned out.

Another factor is oil, What played a mayor role in WW11 was Britain/USA had control over the oil, where as today 80% is controlled by Arabs. They can shut the supply to the West at any time, which no doubt please the chinese. At the moment they have no reason to shut down, because the trillions that is pouring into Arabs pockets is financing the islamization of the Kufr.

Why upset the applecart, Saudi is suspected of financing Al Qaeda.

It has been said that Al Qaeda spends about $30mil every year to keep its operations going. They are the largest. So, maybe it costs $40mil or $50mil world-wide for these different terror networks to continue operating.

How much does the middle east make, IN CASH, from the sale of their crude oil?

Saudi Arabia = $200bil/year

Yemen = $15bil/year

UAE = $40bil/year

Qatar = $20bil/year

Now add all that up, you get roughly $275bil/year. So you've got roughly about $275bil/year in cash floating around in that area,

So...here comes some math again...

$50,000,000 (cost of terrorism) / $275,000,000,000 (total wealth)

The Arabs can LITERALLY hand $50mil in cash to someone over a year's time and it would completely go unnoticed!!! To them it's pocket change.

We aren't only fighting the "muslim world". We are fighting against an incredibly small percentage of people who have obtained an incredibly large percentage of the world's wealth.

More math, Al Qaeda brought down the twin Towers, at a cost of less than a millions $,s Yet this attack has cost the Kufr,s billions and is still rising plus what it is costing to hunt them down

As another posted above, an all out war would caste every body back to the dark ages. This could very well happen, and if it did, it would be to the islamists advantage, as a large area of dar al islam is still in the dark age, or have just come out of it. The mohammedans would be able to adept to those conditions far quicker than the Kufr. Just image, that you had a power cut just now that lasted several days, and there was also a shortage of fuel. How would the Kufr cope if the power cuts where more severe that paper production was cut back, especially toilet paper Most Kufr would not cope, where for many in dar al islam this is the norm.

Also many islamist have no problem going back to the dark ages, as for them they consider that is the prophet lived, and the prophet warned against bid'ah (innovations)





You are another one who underestimates the non muslim worlds military capability,if war breaks out the muslims will score a few hits at first but at the end there would be very few muslims left to adapt or not.

why do you think they are concentrating their war against us in our own countries via immigration and breeding tactics?,they are having some success with these tactics but once we all wake up and rid ourselves of our treacherous politicians the games up for islam.
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infidel1000
Jan 3 2011, 12:12 PM
abdulhamza
Jan 3 2011, 11:55 AM
Bamiyan
Jan 2 2011, 03:47 AM
How to defeat Islam - non-violently.

Bamiyan, you put a lot of work into this, well done for your effort. You make a lot of excellent points, but there a many flaws, based on myths, wishful thinking or lack of research. I will say now it is good that this article has so many flaws, because it makes for a good debate.

I think that to have a successful debate which Bamiyans article deserves, it would be very sensible if we could try and split the article into sections and debate them in chronological order, not just take different items haphazard. I ask this because this article and its flaws need to debated in a serious manner, also for the debate to progress in a productive and positive direction. Lastly, I suspect because I am critical of this article, many would like to speak up and express their opinions, or have questions, so for me to answer all, it would help if there is a bit of order.

My motive to is not to win or lose this debate, it is so we can all learn, hopefully.

Quote:
 
There can be no violent solution
In an age of nuclear weapons, the option of exterminating Islam the way we exterminated Nazism - by world war - is unthinkable. Apart from anything else, there is no guarantee that the West could win an all-out World War III against Islam. Our infrastructure, government and military been too far infiltrated by jihadists. There would be thousands of Fort Hood style massacres of our troops if a war broke out between Dar al-Harb and Dar al-Islam, not to mention massive sabotage of military and civilian infrastructure and violent intifadas in Muslim-dominated cities throughout the West.


Here you are quite right, of exterminating Islam the way we exterminated Nazism - by world war - is unthinkable, and as you point out there is no guarantee that the West could win.

I do not think we would see a world war fought in the traditional way. There would be too many fronts, and the Kufr do not have the resources, we only have to look at Iraq and Afghan, just these two wars have stretched the military and made a big drain on Kufr economy, and the prospect of the kufr of winning these two wars is very slim. Both in Iraq and Afghan those that are pro USA/Coalition, are so, not because they have any love for USA, it is because of the $$$$$,s. The Kufr have failed to learn, you can purchase the service of a mohammedan, but you can never buy his heart.

The islamists learnt a lot from the Vietnam War where the USA had to withdraw, no matter what the USA threw at the viet cong, they could not break their resolve. They also observed that many in the USA did not support the war. The islamist will not wage open war in kufr nations,s, but lure the them to make war in islamic nations. The Kufr will not win these wars, because they will not break the resolve of the people, it will drain the kufr,s economy, and they will get support from many in Kufr lands, as we witnessed with the Stop the War demo where over a million turned out.

Another factor is oil, What played a mayor role in WW11 was Britain/USA had control over the oil, where as today 80% is controlled by Arabs. They can shut the supply to the West at any time, which no doubt please the chinese. At the moment they have no reason to shut down, because the trillions that is pouring into Arabs pockets is financing the islamization of the Kufr.

Why upset the applecart, Saudi is suspected of financing Al Qaeda.

It has been said that Al Qaeda spends about $30mil every year to keep its operations going. They are the largest. So, maybe it costs $40mil or $50mil world-wide for these different terror networks to continue operating.

How much does the middle east make, IN CASH, from the sale of their crude oil?

Saudi Arabia = $200bil/year

Yemen = $15bil/year

UAE = $40bil/year

Qatar = $20bil/year

Now add all that up, you get roughly $275bil/year. So you've got roughly about $275bil/year in cash floating around in that area,

So...here comes some math again...

$50,000,000 (cost of terrorism) / $275,000,000,000 (total wealth)

The Arabs can LITERALLY hand $50mil in cash to someone over a year's time and it would completely go unnoticed!!! To them it's pocket change.

We aren't only fighting the "muslim world". We are fighting against an incredibly small percentage of people who have obtained an incredibly large percentage of the world's wealth.

More math, Al Qaeda brought down the twin Towers, at a cost of less than a millions $,s Yet this attack has cost the Kufr,s billions and is still rising plus what it is costing to hunt them down

As another posted above, an all out war would caste every body back to the dark ages. This could very well happen, and if it did, it would be to the islamists advantage, as a large area of dar al islam is still in the dark age, or have just come out of it. The mohammedans would be able to adept to those conditions far quicker than the Kufr. Just image, that you had a power cut just now that lasted several days, and there was also a shortage of fuel. How would the Kufr cope if the power cuts where more severe that paper production was cut back, especially toilet paper Most Kufr would not cope, where for many in dar al islam this is the norm.

Also many islamist have no problem going back to the dark ages, as for them they consider that is the prophet lived, and the prophet warned against bid'ah (innovations)





You are another one who underestimates the non muslim worlds military capability,if war breaks out the muslims will score a few hits at first but at the end there would be very few muslims left to adapt or not.

why do you think they are concentrating their war against us in our own countries via immigration and breeding tactics?,they are having some success with these tactics but once we all wake up and rid ourselves of our treacherous politicians the games up for islam.
the war in iraq and afghanistan.in my eyes is being fought by politicians not the army as such.we are playing rules of engagment.that is not helping the soldiers one bit.if it was a proper war we would have wiped out the lof of the insurgents a long time ago....if it wasnt for the PC bragade we would have done 80%of the terrorists over here too by now.

like infadel1000 says dont underestimate the forces and what the west is capable of doing,do this at your own peril.

but i do like the way you have broken things down.im going to have a proper read of it when ive had a bath and my tea.

by the way happy new year abdul all the best.

keep the faith

paxi :)
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shiva2
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infidel1000
Jan 3 2011, 12:12 PM
You are another one who underestimates the non muslim worlds military capability,if war breaks out the muslims will score a few hits at first but at the end there would be very few muslims left to adapt or not.

No I am not underestimating the kufr,s military capability.ad neither do do the mohammedans, they are very aware and they have adjusted their tactics accordingly.

Every body was impressed with how the coalition swept through Iraq. no one care to remember that Saddam said that the real war wont start until the coilition entered Baghdad, we show the awesome display of the kufr,s bombing of Baghdad. Eight years on. the Kufr are still there, the kufr are billions of $,s poorer, and islam is stronger, today the law is now based on sharia.

The situation is not better in Afghanistan, the Taliban stil exist Sharia law still exists, and the kufr and even more billions of $,s poorer.

I would say that the islamists have not misunderstood the kufr,s military capability, I would say the kufr have missed the mohammedans resolve....

Though the ideology of islam has parallels to nazism, there is a big difference, most Germans where not born into nazism, so it was not big problem to deprogram them, where as mohammedans are born into islam.

Quote:
 

why do you think they are concentrating their war against us in our own countries via immigration and breeding tactics?,they are having some success with these tactics but once we all wake up and rid ourselves of our treacherous politicians the games up for islam.


They are concentrating their war against us in our own countries via immigration and breeding tactic, because they are fully aware kufr,s military capability. not only have a successful immigration and breeding tactic, they also have a very successful propaganda machine. To add to these they have introduced islam into the school system. which means the next generation will be more tolerant towards islam which in turn ensures the following will be even more tolerant.

You say when we all wake up, the question does arise when is when. You keep quoting there have been 16000 attacks, There where 14500 attacks at the time the EDL was born, if it took that many attacks before most here woke up, how far will islam advance before every body wakes up


paxi christi
Jan 3 2011, 04:55 PM
like infadel1000 says dont underestimate the forces and what the west is capable of doing,do this at your own peril.

the war in iraq and afghanistan.in my eyes is being fought by politicians not the army as such.we are playing rules of engagment.that is not helping the soldiers one bit.if it was a proper war we would have wiped out the lof of the insurgents a long time ago....if it wasnt for the PC bragade we would have done 80%of the terrorists over here too by now.


Yes you are correct, a lot of the problem is to do with the PC brigade, and the islamists know this, that is why they can play the PC brigade like a fiddle.

Quote:
 

but i do like the way you have broken things down.im going to have a proper read of it when ive had a bath and my tea.


As i wrote early it was a good article by Bamiyan, but it needs a critical discussion so as we can go foward,

Quote:
 
by the way happy new year abdul all the best.

keep the faith


And a happy and successful new year to you
Edited by shiva2, Jan 3 2011, 05:52 PM.
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infidel1000
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abdulhamza
Jan 3 2011, 05:31 PM
infidel1000
Jan 3 2011, 12:12 PM
You are another one who underestimates the non muslim worlds military capability,if war breaks out the muslims will score a few hits at first but at the end there would be very few muslims left to adapt or not.

No I am not underestimating the kufr,s military capability.ad neither do do the mohammedans, they are very aware and they have adjusted their tactics accordingly.

Every body was impressed with how the coalition swept through Iraq. no one care to remember that Saddam said that the real war wont start until the coilition entered Baghdad, we show the awesome display of the kufr,s bombing of Baghdad. Eight years on. the Kufr are still there, the kufr are billions of $,s poorer, and islam is stronger, today the law is now based on sharia.

The situation is not better in Afghanistan, the Taliban stil exist Sharia law still exists, and the kufr and even more billions of $,s poorer.

I would say that the islamists have not misunderstood the kufr,s military capability, I would say the kufr have missed the mohammedans resolve....

Though the ideology of islam has parallels to nazism, there is a big difference, most Germans where not born into nazism, so it was not big problem to deprogram them, where as mohammedans are born into islam.

Quote:
 

why do you think they are concentrating their war against us in our own countries via immigration and breeding tactics?,they are having some success with these tactics but once we all wake up and rid ourselves of our treacherous politicians the games up for islam.


They are concentrating their war against us in our own countries via immigration and breeding tactic, because they are fully aware kufr,s military capability. not only have a successful immigration and breeding tactic, they also have a very successful propaganda machine. To add to these they have introduced islam into the school system. which means the next generation will be more tolerant towards islam which in turn ensures the following will be even more tolerant.

You say when we all wake up, the question does arise when is when. You keep quoting there have been 16000 attacks, There where 14500 attacks at the time the EDL was born, if it took that many attacks before most here woke up, how far will islam advance before every body wakes up


paxi christi
Jan 3 2011, 04:55 PM
like infadel1000 says dont underestimate the forces and what the west is capable of doing,do this at your own peril.

the war in iraq and afghanistan.in my eyes is being fought by politicians not the army as such.we are playing rules of engagment.that is not helping the soldiers one bit.if it was a proper war we would have wiped out the lof of the insurgents a long time ago....if it wasnt for the PC bragade we would have done 80%of the terrorists over here too by now.


Yes you are correct, a lot of the problem is to do with the PC brigade, and the islamists know this, that is why they can play the PC brigade like a fiddle.

Quote:
 

but i do like the way you have broken things down.im going to have a proper read of it when ive had a bath and my tea.


As i wrote early it was a good article by Bamiyan, but it needs a critical discussion so as we can go foward,

Quote:
 
by the way happy new year abdul all the best.

keep the faith


And a happy and successful new year to you
I accept that the west is slow to react but there is no doubt in my mind that islam will continue to step up the atrocities this year,i think you underestimate the british if you think we are going to allow new generations to be brainwashed before we act,the EDL is a peaceful street protest movement at the moment but it will evolve into other areas as and when the need arises and splinter groups will leave to form less peaceful organisations as a result and as a counter to the barbarous acts of slaughter carried out by extremist islam,lone wolves will emerge those individuals who terrify treacherous politicians as well as the enemy and their women and children.

Soon iran and pakistan will need to be nuetralised for the sake of human survival,when this happens is when the gloves will come off not just in iraq and afghanistan but in every country where muslims have slaughtered the very people who generously allowed them to live in their countries.

islam has declared war on all non muslims and even on each other their cult is one of bloodshed,butchery and slaughter people all over the world are waking up to their game and are starting to unite to put a stop to it,personally i dont think there is any stopping it now except by war,and this time there will be no bleeding heart liberals to stop the job being done properly as islam will have made the whole non muslim world hate them with their cowardly slaughter of innocent men women and little children.no-one will be left to cry when the world eradicates this 7th century disease of islamic extremism.



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Elvilla
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Excellent article. I would deffer however on the force issue. The solutions proposed have to be implemented at the same time, it is necessary to declare Islam as the enemy world wide, not this BS of War on terror. It is imperative to declare the war on Islam as a whole, stripping it of it's religious mantle .
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JustMyTwoCents
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Excellent post- will send out to my mailing list here in USA and to govt reps
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Dajjal
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Brig. S.K. Malik's book: "The Qur'anic Concept of War", contains vital information. The following quote from pg. 60 is critical and can not be overestimated in its significance.
http://wolfpangloss.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/malik-quranic-concept-of-war.pdf#page=60

Quote:
 
Terror cannot be struck into the hearts of an army by merely
cutting its lines of communication or depriving it of its routes
of withdrawal. It is basically related to the strength or weakness
of the human soul. It can be instilled only if the opponent's
Faith is destroyed. Psychological dislocation is temporary;
spiritual dislocation is permanent. Psychological dislocation can be
produced by a physical act but this does not hold good of the
spiritual dislocation. To instill terror into the hearts of the enemy,
it is essential. in the ultimate analysis, to dislocate his Faith. An
invincible Faith is immune to terror. A weak Faith offers inroads
to terror. The Faith conferred upon us by the Holy Qur'an has
the inherent strength to ward off terror from us and to enable
us to strike terror into the enemy. Whatever the form or type of
strategy directed against the enemy, it must, in order to be effective,
be capable of striking terror into the hearts of the enemy. A strategy
that fails to attain this condition suffers from inherent drawbacks
and weaknesses; and should be reviewed and modified. This rule
is fully applicable to nuclear as well as conventional wars. It is
equally true of the strategy of nuclear deterrence in fashion
today. To be credible and effective, the strategy of deterrence
must be capable of striking terror into the hearts of the enemy.


We absolutely must retain and strengthen our own faith while breaking the enemy's. The best chance of emancipating Allah's slaves is to catch them young, while they have not been hardened with a lifetime of brainwashing and youthful doubts arise.

They are taught that Moe was the greatest and best of men, an exemplar to be emulated. To know the score, they must have exposure to the Sunnah and Sira.

Pederasty, taking sex slaves and suborning murder are not saintly conduct. Presenting the facts with full documentation can have an impact.

The Qur'an, viewed in the light of hadith, exposes Moe's mercenary motivation. See my blog post: "Islam's Mercenary Mission" for the dirty details.

The matter of Moe's 'revelations' must not be ignored. He heard bells ringing in his head, at other times, Jibril spoke to him. He had epileptic seizures followed by revelations. What's more, he revealed situational scripture, particularly about his marital issues. Search Sahih Bukhari for "was revealed". Even his favorite child bride saw through him.

Because Islam is a fraud and the clerics know it, they are extremely sensitive to any and all criticism. This is a weakness that can and must be exploited. Every time the HRC or GA brings out a new resolution against defamation of Islam, I blog it, going into great detail in debunking their complaints. I am always looking for a good excuse to deliar a Muslim. Everyone should have a blog or two.

Bloggers may find my "Myth vs Fact" series useful because it combines relevant quotes from the Qur'an & hadith that form a recognizable patter. You can download the html source from my web site.

ICERD, ICCPR & CPPCG contain provisions which would, if enforced, require signatory nations to proscribe Islam by law. The International Qur'an Petition outlines the most critical evidence which convicts Islam of human rights violations. It has excellent potential as an educational aid. lets make good use of it!!

The Resources for Research discussion thread at Come now, and let us reason together{FB group} has links to many good sources we can use. other threads demonstrate their use.

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williamdegriffin
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The location of that Achilles heel was amply demonstrated by the Satanic Verses affair, the Motoons rage, and by the OIC's insidious attempts to introduce global laws against 'blasphemy' of Mohammed. The Muslims themselves have shown us their most vulnerable spot, which is the questionable (though unquestioned) character of the 'Prophet' himself. We need to satirise and ridicule baby-bonking Mo until the Muslims fly into uncontrollable tantrums, then ridicule them even more for their tantrums, and repeat the process until they froth at the mouth and steam comes out of their ears.

you gotta love this .

This land is mine and as such respect me and my ways for my tolerance only goes so far

william de griffin

REGAIN THE CHURCH

REMOVE ISLAM FROM THE UK AND EUROPE.
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infidel1000
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Dajjal
Jan 4 2011, 08:07 AM
Brig. S.K. Malik's book: "The Qur'anic Concept of War", contains vital information. The following quote from pg. 60 is critical and can not be overestimated in its significance.
http://wolfpangloss.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/malik-quranic-concept-of-war.pdf#page=60

Quote:
 
Terror cannot be struck into the hearts of an army by merely
cutting its lines of communication or depriving it of its routes
of withdrawal. It is basically related to the strength or weakness
of the human soul. It can be instilled only if the opponent's
Faith is destroyed. Psychological dislocation is temporary;
spiritual dislocation is permanent. Psychological dislocation can be
produced by a physical act but this does not hold good of the
spiritual dislocation. To instill terror into the hearts of the enemy,
it is essential. in the ultimate analysis, to dislocate his Faith. An
invincible Faith is immune to terror. A weak Faith offers inroads
to terror. The Faith conferred upon us by the Holy Qur'an has
the inherent strength to ward off terror from us and to enable
us to strike terror into the enemy. Whatever the form or type of
strategy directed against the enemy, it must, in order to be effective,
be capable of striking terror into the hearts of the enemy. A strategy
that fails to attain this condition suffers from inherent drawbacks
and weaknesses; and should be reviewed and modified. This rule
is fully applicable to nuclear as well as conventional wars. It is
equally true of the strategy of nuclear deterrence in fashion
today. To be credible and effective, the strategy of deterrence
must be capable of striking terror into the hearts of the enemy.


We absolutely must retain and strengthen our own faith while breaking the enemy's. The best chance of emancipating Allah's slaves is to catch them young, while they have not been hardened with a lifetime of brainwashing and youthful doubts arise.

They are taught that Moe was the greatest and best of men, an exemplar to be emulated. To know the score, they must have exposure to the Sunnah and Sira.

Pederasty, taking sex slaves and suborning murder are not saintly conduct. Presenting the facts with full documentation can have an impact.

The Qur'an, viewed in the light of hadith, exposes Moe's mercenary motivation. See my blog post: "Islam's Mercenary Mission" for the dirty details.

The matter of Moe's 'revelations' must not be ignored. He heard bells ringing in his head, at other times, Jibril spoke to him. He had epileptic seizures followed by revelations. What's more, he revealed situational scripture, particularly about his marital issues. Search Sahih Bukhari for "was revealed". Even his favorite child bride saw through him.

Because Islam is a fraud and the clerics know it, they are extremely sensitive to any and all criticism. This is a weakness that can and must be exploited. Every time the HRC or GA brings out a new resolution against defamation of Islam, I blog it, going into great detail in debunking their complaints. I am always looking for a good excuse to deliar a Muslim. Everyone should have a blog or two.

Bloggers may find my "Myth vs Fact" series useful because it combines relevant quotes from the Qur'an & hadith that form a recognizable patter. You can download the html source from my web site.

ICERD, ICCPR & CPPCG contain provisions which would, if enforced, require signatory nations to proscribe Islam by law. The International Qur'an Petition outlines the most critical evidence which convicts Islam of human rights violations. It has excellent potential as an educational aid. lets make good use of it!!

The Resources for Research discussion thread at Come now, and let us reason together{FB group} has links to many good sources we can use. other threads demonstrate their use.

A useful long term weapon in our armoury i admit,but how long does it take to nuetralise a radical muslim with your system days,weeks,months,years?.a bullet does the same thing in seconds.

The murderers of islam are here NOW.wake up,they rub their hands in glee when they see posts like this which in essense gives them encouragement and more time to do their worst.
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Islam's one and only foundation is the credibility and resultant authority of Mohammed. If you can undermine that credibility and turn Mohammed into a figure of ridicule and derision, then you have destroyed Islam.

ALL of Islam derives from Mohammed and nowhere else. Even aspects of Islam that appear to derive from Christianity and Judaism are actually corrupted versions of those religions which have been twisted and perverted to suit Mohammed's psychopathic agenda.

There are three ways of attacking Mohammed (1) Ethical Arguments (2) Rational Arguments and (3) Undermining his leadership.

(1) Ethical arguments are not as effective as they might at first seem.
By our standards, Mohammed's actions were evil. But Muslims live in a different moral universe from the rest of us, where the very definition of good and evil are determined by what Mohammed (the Perfect man) did and said. Islam aims to completely destroy the conscience and free will of the Muslim and replace it with the cloned behavior of a psychopathic megalomaniac.

(2) Rational arguments are no better. Muslims are taught from an early age that faith is superior to reason , and that it is a sin to even question the Koran ('Bi-la kayf' or 'Bi-la kaifa' , which means Mohammedan contradictions and absurdities must be accepted without asking how or why) . Apart from which, the majority of Muslims are below average intelligence due to genetic damage caused by generations of inbreeding.

Even though the Koran is full of contradictions, Muslims are quite happy with them.


(3) Undermining Mohammed's leadership...

(3a) Nobody likes to be conned, and when they find they have been conned they turn against the conman. Muslims are naturally suspicious to the extent of paranoia and much given to conspiracy theories, so if you can show Mohammed as a person who deceived his own followers (as well as deceiving the kuffars - which is OK), then you will have more seriously undermined their faith than any rational or ethical argument could.

(3b) Nobody likes to be a laughing-stock. So if you can make Mohammed into a figure of ridicule and derision
he will no longer appear to be 'The Perfect Man' and role model. This is why the Motoons were so effective.



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shiva2
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infidel1000
Jan 3 2011, 06:24 PM
I accept that the west is slow to react but there is no doubt in my mind that islam will continue to step up the atrocities this year,i think you underestimate the british if you think we are going to allow new generations to be brainwashed before we act.

I neither over or underestimate the British, I out go from history and how the British interacted with is islam, and what we see to-day. What we see to-day, is a big divide, pro and anti islam with the Government, Unions and the media pro islam. I do not wish to throw this thred of topic, but if you care to research, Britain has a very long history of appeasing the islamists so what we see is nothing new.

Quote:
 
The EDL is a peaceful street protest movement at the moment but it will evolve into other areas as and when the need arises and splinter groups will leave to form less peaceful organisations as a result and as a counter to the barbarous acts of slaughter carried out by extremist islam, lone wolves will emerge those individuals who terrify treacherous politicians as well as the enemy and their women and children.


This statement is dangerous and statements like this could have a negative effect on the EDL. Fortunately very few on this forum share these views

Quote:
 
Soon iran and pakistan will need to be nuetralised for the sake of human survival,when this happens is when the gloves will come off not just in iraq and afghanistan but in every country where muslims have slaughtered the very people who generously allowed them to live in their countries.


I agree that Iran and Pakistan needs to be neutralized, but war is not the option, for the reasons I mentioned earlier, but attacking these two countries, will unite two deadly rival ideologies, Sunni (Pakistan) Shia (Iran) plus China.

Also I will back track a little, you under estimate the Islamic world which sit on an enormous amount of natural wealth, not only oil but tin, natural gas, nickel, timber, bauxite, copper, fertile soils, coal, gold, silver, not to mention the recent finds in Afghanistan.

If you would like to check the facts, "Islam World" countries are actually First World in terms of resources. While the west with organizations such as UNICEF and corrupt rulers such as the Saudi royals keep the masses content under the circus act of "humanitarian aid," the capitalist machine works behind the stage to gobble up the resources of the world, and what cash that goes back, goes straight into the back pockets of the rulers.

One of the primary goals for many islamists is to topple the corrupt leaders, and this is why they also target the west, because of it,s support of the feudal landlords of Pakistan and the Gulf sheikhs who squander the public resources of the Ummah, who go against sharia which mandates vital and natural resources as public property thus public revenue from oil and natural resources would be used to secure the needs of the whole Ummah, and not to line the pockets of fat shieks and their ilk.

Now if the west went to war, then the Islamic world will shut down all resources, and create chaos, not so with the mohammedans as there exists no concept of relative scarcity of resources in islam, except for those that have been westernized they make do with what they have.

Quote:
 
islam has declared war on all non muslims and even on each other their cult is one of bloodshed,butchery and slaughter people all over the world are waking up to their game and are starting to unite to put a stop to it,personally i dont think there is any stopping it now except by war,and this time there will be no bleeding heart liberals to stop the job being done properly as islam will have made the whole non muslim world hate them with their cowardly slaughter of innocent men women and little children.no-one will be left to cry when the world eradicates this 7th century disease of islamic extremism.


To eradicate islam the way you suggest amounts to genocide, and I do not think you will find much support even among those that seriously oppose islam
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Deleted User
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its the pc madness and the rules of engagement in war thats stopping us from eradicating the islamists in my view abdul....you can go on about tin,oil so on so forth..in war you take what ever you conquer..this part of stripping the enemy will weaken any enemy.wars are not what they used to be thank god....but i think it will come back to the old hand to hand combat..but the west have modern day technology on there side...


to lighten it up a little with humour...we have james bond who do they have? ;)


keep the faith

paxi :)
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shiva2
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Bamiyan
Jan 4 2011, 10:47 AM
Islam's one and only foundation is the credibility and resultant authority of Mohammed. If you can undermine that credibility and turn Mohammed into a figure of ridicule and derision, then you have destroyed Islam.
Yes Bamiyan, I will be getting to this eventually, I am going to debate your article chronologically, and so as this thread doesnt end up a mish mash, I will not respond just yet, but will when and if the debate progress to that point.

You started this OP, and in the third paragraph you state "In an age of nuclear weapons, the option of exterminating Islam the way we exterminated Nazism - by world war - is unthinkable." Then you link to Trencherbone and JW, that show a few minor reasons why war is unthinkable, by doing this you are white washing/ignoring the major reasons why war is unthinkable. The problems that Trencherbone points out and the FT Hoods can be easily solved, just by isolating the mohammeads from positions where they can cause harm.

Your statement the option of exterminating Islam the way we exterminated Nazism - by world war - is unthinkable. would have made more sense if you had pointed out it would lead to vast devastation, and the west would be crippled.

You have no doubt seen images, from Afghanistan, Chechnya and Palestine,where we see total devastation, but has it weakened islam, no it has led to a more resilient and radical islam.

You go on to say "Apart from anything else, there is no guarantee that the West could win an all-out World War III against Islam." but you do not elaborate. So you miss how serious the situation is, and how real the chances are of islam coming out on top.

What does surprise me is your reluctance to debate my comments so far.
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abdul ,,you hae no doubt seen the devastation of what the second world war did to this country too?the blitz on britain was unbalievable with the death count and the way it ripped the cities and town like a piece of paper then toer it into shreds...did it break opur spirit? no .it made us more resilientstronger..dont be fooled by all the wishy washy politics my friend..the country will stand up straight when it needs to.and woo betide the opposition.same as our european brothers in thier countries aswell.

in what way would the west be more crippled than it was form 1939-45?



keep the faith

paxi :)

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abdulhamza
Jan 4 2011, 04:42 PM
Bamiyan
Jan 4 2011, 10:47 AM


Your statement the option of exterminating Islam the way we exterminated Nazism - by world war - is unthinkable. would have made more sense if you had pointed out it would lead to vast devastation, and the west would be crippled.

I did "Our infrastructure, government and military have been too far infiltrated by jihadists. There would be thousands of Fort Hood style massacres of our troops if a war broke out between Dar al-Harb and Dar al-Islam, not to mention massive sabotage of military and civilian infrastructure and violent intifadas in Muslim-dominated cities throughout the West.

You go on to say "Apart from anything else, there is no guarantee that the West could win an all-out World War III against Islam." but you do not elaborate. So you miss how serious the situation is, and how real the chances are of islam coming out on top.

I mentioned that China would probably come out top. To elaborate on this would involve discussing the post-Soviet power vacuum in Central Asia and the prospect of Chinese tanks rolling through the Dzungarian Gate into the destabilised former Soviet Union' southern territories.

What does surprise me is your reluctance to debate my comments so far.

I should add that my scenario for WWIII would be...

- Nuclear exchanges between India and Pakistan, and Iran and Israel (possibly as the initial triggers for the conflict)
- Chaos throughout Europe and most of the former USSR due to sabotage and intifadas by Muslims.
- The USA interning its Muslims and retreating into Fortress America isolationism.
- China picking up the pieces in Eurasia.
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Dajjal
Jan 4 2011, 08:07 AM
Brig. S.K. Malik's book: "The Qur'anic Concept of War", contains vital information. The following quote from pg. 60 is critical and can not be overestimated in its significance.


Without a doubt this is an extremely important book, which has not been overlooked by our military.

What stands out most from the passage you quote is An invincible Faith is immune to terror. A weak Faith offers inroads to terror. The Faith conferred upon us by the Holy Qur'an has the inherent strength to ward off terror from us and to enable us to strike terror into the enemy.


I do not know if you meant to intentionally but you acknowledge Maliks statement of that the islamic faith is stronger.

Dajjal
 
We absolutely must retain and strengthen our own faith while breaking the enemy's. The best chance of emancipating Allah's slaves is to catch them young, while they have not been hardened with a lifetime of brainwashing and youthful doubts arise.


What you mention here is exactly what I was planning to mention later on in this debate, and that is to remove all children at birth from any influence of islam, which is just as impossible to de-program every mohammedan.

Many have tried to show the sham that the islam is, many have shown the contradictions, the flaws of logic, the preposterousness of what is contained in the mohammedans koran. Does any one here truly believe that this has changed one mohammedan's mind, that it has made him lose his faith?

How were mohammedans defeated in the past? Let's take the Barbary pirates--Islamicized Berbers--not with tribute, not with "making them change their faith" but by force--of arms. But islam always came back. Islam has been allowed to gain strength by the kufr, where all out war is out of the question. Now the OP suggests that we should try some psychological and propaganda warfare on them--make them lose their faith? Good Luck!.
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infidel1000
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Bamiyan
Jan 4 2011, 06:23 PM
abdulhamza
Jan 4 2011, 04:42 PM
Bamiyan
Jan 4 2011, 10:47 AM


Your statement the option of exterminating Islam the way we exterminated Nazism - by world war - is unthinkable. would have made more sense if you had pointed out it would lead to vast devastation, and the west would be crippled.

I did "Our infrastructure, government and military have been too far infiltrated by jihadists. There would be thousands of Fort Hood style massacres of our troops if a war broke out between Dar al-Harb and Dar al-Islam, not to mention massive sabotage of military and civilian infrastructure and violent intifadas in Muslim-dominated cities throughout the West.

You go on to say "Apart from anything else, there is no guarantee that the West could win an all-out World War III against Islam." but you do not elaborate. So you miss how serious the situation is, and how real the chances are of islam coming out on top.

I mentioned that China would probably come out top. To elaborate on this would involve discussing the post-Soviet power vacuum in Central Asia and the prospect of Chinese tanks rolling through the Dzungarian Gate into the destabilised former Soviet Union' southern territories.

What does surprise me is your reluctance to debate my comments so far.
I think that abdul knows damn well that the non MUSLIM worlds fire power would end any and every kind of resistance to it in very short order. i admit and accept that the MUSLIMS would get a couple of hits in at first but after that it will be "goodnight allah",it simply is not realistic to talk about materials etc do you really believe that the countries that would oppose islam would not have been stockpiling for years.

The war would be as quick as the war in iraq was with the same ridiculous boasting which comes natural to murdering MUSLIMS.

Of course a war is possible and if the MUSLIMS carry on with their cowardly terrorist attacks i believe it is inevitable.

Lastly abdul dont go on about stiffening resistance in MUSLIM countries,dont you understand when the gloves come off MUSLIMS are toast(our lads in iraq and afghanistan will have a free hand),if you do not understand or wont accept the overwhelming power of mainly western countries and what this means then there is little point in continuing this discussion

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Nell_Angel
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abdulhamza
Jan 4 2011, 06:51 PM
Now the OP suggests that we should try some psychological and propaganda warfare on them--make them lose their faith? Good Luck!.
Well, not quite. Psychological and propaganda warfare is not the same as Truth - and that is what is proposed. A faith founded on a rock is difficult to shake, a faith founded on sand is easy to disturb. It appears from this forum that clearly many many Muslims do not even recognise the inherent contradictions of the Islamic dogma, and hence are taught not to question it, but the human mind is naturally questioning. So the proposal is to get the facts in their faces and then to the heart. Before Truth is outlawed. So, Urgently.

Bamiyan, can I ask why the prophet claims lineage to Ishmael? If that's true (that its claimed I mean) isn't it a bit of an own goal, claiming to be descended from the result of Abraham's disobedience and lack of faith?
John 10:10
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